are time serts asbsolutely necessary
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, are time serts asbsolutely necessary in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; My parts supplier said be very careful when removing . please help ?...
  1. #1
    mikeylok13 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    My parts supplier said be very careful when removing . please help ?

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  3. #2
    AJxtcman's Avatar
    AJxtcman is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    I would never ruin a good block by installing time serts.
    If you have a bad hole you need to repair it. You could destroy a block that has no problems by installing Timeserts just because.

  4. #3
    mikeylok13 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    If i don t have a striped hole i could be ok using new bolts without time serts
    because budget really tight .sorry about grammar punctuation.

  5. #4
    AJxtcman's Avatar
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    You need to clean all the tread locker out of the holes. If you don't it can bind the treads and break them.
    Next after they are clean you need to look for any signs of pitting in the threaded area.
    You will need to look for broken threads on the bolts when you removed them or in the holes.
    If the threads are good then don't install an insert. The Inserts just make the bolt bigger it is not like you are installing a nut down inside the block to grip.

  6. #5
    mikeylok13 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    thank you.

  7. #6
    mikeylok13 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    one more question gm or aftermarket gaskets ?

  8. #7
    jadcock's Avatar
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    Boy...I suppose that AJ is the expert on this (being a Cadillac technician), but I do want to point out that there have been REPEATED experiences by members on this board and another board where they didn't Timesert all the holes and the problem has returned. In the past, it was best practice to Timesert all 20 head bolt holes and you knew you were good for another quarter million miles.

  9. #8
    AJxtcman's Avatar
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by jadcock View Post
    Boy...I suppose that AJ is the expert on this (being a Cadillac technician), but I do want to point out that there have been REPEATED experiences by members on this board and another board where they didn't Timesert all the holes and the problem has returned. In the past, it was best practice to Timesert all 20 head bolt holes and you knew you were good for another quarter million miles.
    When the treads are cleaned and they show no signs of damage you will be good.

    Jadcock how do you get the treadlocker out of the block?
    I tried to contact Locktite and asked the Wurth Rep.
    I can not get an answer, but I have found two ways.
    #1 I used adhesive remover in quart cans. (the body shop type)
    #2 I own my own personal heated aquatic spay cabinet. The heat and water/soap must break it down, because when I run the cleaning tool down the threads it comes out clean.

  10. #9
    jadcock's Avatar
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    I've always understood that the threads can pull with the bolt, when it's removed. In other words, part of the threads will break off with the thread locker. I've heard of cases where folks did not Timesert (one of all of the holes) and when the head bolts were torqued upon install, they stripped.

    Maybe this was due to them not fully removing the thread locker, I don't know. ??

  11. #10
    eldorado1 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    I'd never do a head gasket job without timserting (OR NORMS INSERTING!! yeesh) all of the holes. It isn't worth my time having to do it again.

  12. #11
    codewize's Avatar
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    The reason the head gasket problem occurs to begin with is that the threads are flawed in design and do not hold the bolts tight enough to prevent lifting the heads.

    Additionally most of us also feel that this phenomenon is triggered prematurely by corrosion in the coolant system caused by poor coolant system maintenance.

    Timeserting is a time consuming art but if you're going to take the heads off the engine your shooting yourself in the foot if you don't Timesert.
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  13. #12
    zonie77 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    SInce you did not remove the head bolts yet don't get too wrapped up in this question.

    If you use a breaker bar there is really only one way you are going to remove the bolts, by unscrewing them. If the threads are damaged they are already damaged. You can tell the difference when you start unscrewing them.

    Take it apart and carefully inspect each hole and bolt for damage as AJxtcman instructed. If there is NO evidence of damage you can probably reassemble without the inserts. If there is ANY evidence of damaged threads you better insert it.

    There have been (over the last couple of years) guys who had the last bolt they were installing fail, some bolts fail, no bolts fail. I don't think they all really inspected the holes carefully. I'm sure they did a quick inspection but not sure how well they cleaned and inspected each hole.

    After you get it apart let us know how they look. It might be a good idea to keep the bolts organized so you know which holes they came out of (at least til you inspect them). Some holes punched in cardboard would work well for this. Mark which head and which end of the head on the cardboard.

  14. #13
    jadcock's Avatar
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    I guess I just don't see what you have to gain by NOT using the Timeserts. Surely a Timeserted hole is not more likely to fail than an already possibly compromised hole.

  15. #14
    codewize's Avatar
    codewize is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    Exactly. Why would you not do it when you're that far into the project?

    Quote Originally Posted by jadcock View Post
    I guess I just don't see what you have to gain by NOT using the Timeserts. Surely a Timeserted hole is not more likely to fail than an already possibly compromised hole.
    Ownership:
    91 d'Elegance 350
    02 DTS
    01 DTS:
    Custom installed Volant CAI
    Custom PCM
    Body color engine components
    Cruiser Alloy wheels
    EBC brakes and rotors
    Eibach springs
    Corsa exhaust
    Sportwing Spoiler
    Semi-custom interior
    Custom quad Hi-Beams
    Future Plans: More interior work.


    Memberships:
    National and regional Cadillac & LaSalle Club
    Proud Volunteer - Northstar Tuning Project
    Guinness World Records - Largest Cadillac Parade

    ----------------------------

  16. #15
    zonie77 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: are time serts asbsolutely necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeylok13;
    If i don t have a striped hole i could be ok using new bolts without time serts
    because budget really tight .sorry about grammar punctuation.
    Here's why he's trying to avoid them.

    If you get a used kit and resell it for same cost you only have cost of inserts.

    I haven't seen Norm's set used yet.

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