Torque Converter Clutch (P 0741 TCC stuck off) - Page 5
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Northstar Engines and System Technical Discussion Discussion, Torque Converter Clutch (P 0741 TCC stuck off) in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; In a weak moment, perhaps more like temporary insanity last wednesday I took my 02 Deville to a Cadillac dealer ...
  1. #61
    blue_eldo is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    In a weak moment, perhaps more like temporary insanity last wednesday I took my 02 Deville to a Cadillac dealer to address the dreaded p0741 and a p1860 code. I dropped the deville off Wednesday afternoon for a Thursday appointment. I was quoted $1,100 to replace the TCC solenoid. Thursday afternoon I get a call from the service writter informing me that the torque converter needed to be replaced and the valve body dropped to inspect a plate and the sprocket! The estimate now was bumped up to $2,700. In even a weaker moment I agree as long at I recieve a 15% discount on the parts that the Parts Manager agreed to on all the parts I buy. I called Friday afternoon and was told that the transmission was not out yet.
    I stopped by Monday afternoon and was told that the tranny tech called in sick. I called today and was told that the sprocket was bad and the torque converter was ordered and would take 5 days to ship! I was very suprised by this announcement. The Service writter then offered earlier shipment if I was willing to pay a premium.
    I feel this is B.S. and wonder if the Tranny Tech quite in the middle of the job and they are buying time with this excuse.
    Right now I am regretting my decision getting involved with this dealership. I was not sucessful in finding a transmission shop that I was comfortable with. I was tempted to fix it myself, but do not have the time these days.

    Does anyone have any comments? does a 5 day delivery for a Torque converter make sense?

  2. #62
    Logandiagnostic's Avatar
    Logandiagnostic is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    The Cadillac dealer sounds like he is on the hunt for more $$.

    The odds of having a bad TTC solenoid, bad TC, bad sprocket are out there a bit.

    I have had a 1/2 dozen GM vehicles that I drove well over 200K miles. None ever lost a torque coverter.

    I even felt my solenoid fail. I was driving 70 mph, felt a bump in the trans, 30 seconds latter the SES lamp was on. PO1860. Latter po741 came on as a result of 1860.

    I was also able to verify the ohms reading of the TCC solenoid at the transmission harness connector BEFORE going into the trans.

    This should have been the dealers first step.



    Logan Diagnostic LLC
    www.ledfix.com
    www.airbagcrash.com
    www.logandieselusa.com

  3. #63
    blue_eldo is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    Thanks Logan for your reply. I was so close to replacing the TCC solenoid myself following your excellent guide lines. I also suggested to the Service Writer that I wanted them to replace just the solenoid and that I would roll the dice on that taking care of both codes. She said it would only take care of one of the codes. I asked which one. she could not answer me! I was then afraid that they would charge me for changing the solenoid and not do it, thus proving me wrong.
    I knew better than to fall for the dealer B.S. This is what happens when you have more money than Brains!

  4. #64
    Logandiagnostic's Avatar
    Logandiagnostic is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    It's a fact. A bad TCC solenoid will cause po1860. A false code po0741 results because of po1860.

    Po1860 causes a false Po741.

    Fix po1860, po0741 goes away.

    If you have po741 by itself, something else is up. Po1860 and po741 together? Fix the TCC solenoid.

    First check should have been to measure the ohms value of the TCC solenoid at the transmission connector. My TCC solenoid was 'open.'

    Maybe you should print this posting out and present it to the dealer.



    Logan Diagnostic LLC
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  5. #65
    Logandiagnostic's Avatar
    Logandiagnostic is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Exclamation Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    Here is the GM diagnostic tree for a 2002 Deville with po741.

    Note you must not have po1860 code. Another way to say it, If po1860 is there, you fix that first.

    If any of these other codes are there. You have to fix those first before chasing po741.


    "The PCM controls the torque converter clutch (TCC) solenoid valve pulse width modulation (PWM). The solenoid controls the hydraulic fluid for TCC apply and release. When the TCC is applied, the engine is coupled directly to the transmission through the TCC. The TCC slip speed should be near 0.

    If the PCM detects high torque converter slip when the TCC is commanded ON, then DTC P0741 sets. DTC P0741 is a type B DTC.

    Conditions for Running the DTC
    • No TP DTCs P0121, P0122 or P0123.

    • No VSS DTCs P0502 or P0503.

    • No AT ISS DTCs P0716 or P0717.

    • No TCC stuck ON DTC P0742.

    • No IMS DTCs P1820, P1822, P1823 or P1825.

    No TCC PWM solenoid valve DTC P1860.

    • The engine run time is greater than 5 seconds.

    • The time since the gear select lever change is greater than 6 seconds.

    • The IMS indicates D2, D3 or D4.

    • The transmission gear ratio indicates 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear.

    • The transmission fluid temperature is 20-133C (68-271F).

    • The TP angle is 10-50 percent.

    • The engine torque is 43-215 Nm (32-159 lb ft).

    • The TCC solenoid valve is commanded ON.

    Conditions for Setting the DTC
    TCC slip speed exceeds its limit for a given torque for 5 seconds.

    Refer to Torque Converter Clutch Slip Speed .

    Action Taken When the DTC Sets
    • The PCM illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) during the second consecutive trip in which the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met.

    • The PCM inhibits 4th gear if the transmission is in hot mode.

    • The PCM records the operating conditions when the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met. The PCM stores this information as Freeze Frame and Failure Records.

    • The PCM stores DTC P0741 in PCM history during the second consecutive trip in which the Conditions for Setting the DTC are met.

    Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
    • The PCM turns OFF the MIL during the third consecutive trip in which the diagnostic test runs and passes.

    • A scan tool can clear the MIL/DTC.

    • The PCM clears the DTC from PCM history if the vehicle completes 40 warm-up cycles without an emission-related diagnostic fault occurring.

    • The PCM cancels the DTC default actions when the ignition switch is OFF long enough in order to power down the PCM.

    Diagnostic Aids
    • Inspect the transmission fluid level.

    • The transmission may be in hot mode. Inspect the transmission fluid lines to the radiator. The lines may be pinched, plugged or twisted.

    Test Description
    The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table.

    This step inspects the transmission fluid to ensure that it is at the proper level.

    This step verifies that the TCC engages when commanded ON by the scan tool.

    DTC P0741 Step
    Action
    Value(s)
    Yes
    No

    1
    Did you perform the Powertrain Diagnostic System Check?
    --
    Go to Step 2
    Go to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls in Engine Controls

    2
    Did you perform the Transmission Fluid Checking Procedure?
    --
    Go to Step 3
    Go to Transmission Fluid Check

    3
    Install a scan tool.
    Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
    Important: Before clearing the DTC, use the scan tool in order to record the Freeze Frame and Failure Records. Using the Clear Info function erases the Freeze Frame and Failure Records from the PCM.

    Record the DTC Freeze Frame and Failure Records.
    Clear the DTC.
    Drive the vehicle at 72 km/h (45 mph).
    Using the scan tool, command the TCC PWM solenoid valve ON.
    Operate the vehicle under the following conditions:
    • The transmission fluid temperature (TFT) is 20-133C (68-271F).

    • The engine torque is 43-215 Nm (32-159 lb ft).

    • Drive the vehicle in D4 with a throttle position (TP) angle of 10-50 %.

    • Ensure that the TCC applies for more than 5 seconds.

    Monitor the TCC slip speed.
    During TCC application, is the slip speed within the specified parameters?
    -20 to +100 RPM
    Go to Diagnostic Aids
    Go to Step 4

    4
    During TCC apply, if NO change in TCC slip speed, inspect for the following conditions:
    • The TCC control valve is stuck OFF due to sediment or binding.

    • The TCC regulator valve is stuck OFF due to sediment or binding.

    • The TCC feed valve is stuck OFF due to sediment or binding.

    • The TCC enable valve is stuck OFF due to sediment or binding.

    During TCC apply, if SOME change in TCC slip speed, inspect for the following conditions:
    • The TCC PWM oil pressure screen is clogged.

    • The TCC PWM solenoid valve O-ring is leaking or cut.

    • The turbine shaft seal, case cover to turbine shaft seal, case cover to drive sprocket seal and drive sprocket support are worn.

    Repair any of the above items as necessary.
    If no problems found in previous conditions, replace the T/C viscous clutch.
    Refer to Transmission Overhaul in the 4T80-E section of the Transmission Unit Repair Manual.

    Did you complete the repair?
    --
    Go to Step 5
    --

    5
    Perform the following procedure in order to verify the repair:

    Select DTC.
    Select Clear Info.
    Operate the vehicle under the following conditions:
    • The TFT is 20-133C (68-271F).

    • The engine torque is 43-215 Nm (32-159 lb ft).

    • Drive the vehicle in D4 with a TP angle of 10-50%.

    • Ensure that the TCC applies and the slip speed is -20 to +100 RPM for 4 seconds.

    Select Specific DTC.
    Enter DTC P0741.
    Has the test run and passed?
    --
    System OK
    Go to Step 1"






    I would suggest the dealer is dishing out complete BS. A new TCC solenoid will fix both codes.

    Logan Diagnostic LLC
    www.ledfix.com
    www.airbagcrash.com
    www.logandieselusa.com

  6. #66
    DevilleDeeman's Avatar
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    I've had this TCC code problem for a while (2003 Deville with 127,000 miles), the code showed up 50,000 miles ago. I've had no tranny problems. MPG is down a little (2 MPG), RPM is 2025 at 65 mph car runs great.
    Change and flush your tranny fluid every 50,000 miles on these cars and problems won't appear.
    Resert the code, it takes along time for it to return.

  7. #67
    99DevilleOn20s is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    I have just bought a 97 Deville with 132k on i and this code just came up. On the highway it seems fine but when I come to a complete stop it feels like the tranny hasnt dowshifted into first. If im easy on it it takes off but sort of sluggish. I havent take my rims off yet and im thinking this may help due to the weight of the wheels. They are some pretty heavy 20's. Any one else have the same problem? Like I said its great on the highway.

  8. #68
    AlBundy's Avatar
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    I'm also here to join the club. I got the PC0741-TCC System Stuck Off-CURRENT and PC1579-P/N to D/R at High Throttle Angle - Power Reduction Mode Active-HISTORY today. I've been stuck in the snow at least twice and yesterday was the only time I recieve a Reduce engine speed message while trying to get out. I also had a TC0073-HISTORY code last week and my car is one of the cars listed on this bulletin below.

    Bulletin 63-50-16 dated May 1996.

    Basically, the bulletin indicates that there was a software bug in the EBTCM (Electronic Brake / Traction Control Module) for 1996 Cadillacs manufactured with the last 6 digits of the VIN number that are smaller numbers than as follows:


    Concours / Deville --- 280478

    Eldorado ------------- 614516

    Seville -------------- 826978



    If you are not having a "real" problem and are getting an invalid DTC due to the software bug you should be able to duplicate the problem as follows:

    First, turn the rear air conditioning blower to the lowest fan speed setting. Then, reset the TCS codes to that TC0073 is no longer shown. Now, turn off your engine. Restart the engine after a few minutes and then run the diagnostics again. You should find that the TC0073 does not show up. You should be able to drive around, turn the engine on and off, etc. and the TC0073 should not appear provided that you leave the rear air blower set to the lowest setting. After trying this out, turn the rear air to the highest blower setting and then turn off the engine. When you restart the car and run diagnostics the TC0073 should reappear again as though you have a problem. If this is what happens and your VIN number is within the range as indicated above then you are getting an invalid TC0073 message.

  9. #69
    mrroboto is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    ?? Rear blower?? What's that?
    96 Deville:

  10. #70
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, slap in a big stereo
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    In some model lines in the rear of the console there is a rear seat air conditioning control panel and air divertors. Some owners complain of weird fan noises, and it turns out to be that someone has left the rear fan speed on high.

  11. #71
    carloslara is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    the same shit is happening to me on my deville? did you solved the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyXcess View Post
    The Tech at the Cadillac Dealer tells me the reason my "Service Engine Light" is on is due to the Torque Converter Clutch. They explained my car is not going into overdrive and my gas mileage will suffer. Aside from that they didn't give me much of an explanation on why I need make a repair.

    Can anyone please shed some light on what the heck the Torque Converter Clutch is and how urgent the need to repair? The Service Dept wants almost $3,000 to make the repair.

    I hadn't noticed the car driving differently, but I took the car in because my Engine Light had come on.

    It's a 2002 Deville DTS - 82K milies - according to the work order "Has a PO741 TCC Stuck Off.

    Any insights are apppreciated.

  12. #72
    Submariner409's Avatar
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    carlos, If you have a Current P0741 which will not clear or go to History, then the repair involves removing the transmission because the faulty control solenoid has to be changed. It's a $50 part buried $2000 (in labor) inside the transmission.

  13. #73
    diamondcaddy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    Quote Originally Posted by Logandiagnostic View Post
    The Cadillac dealer sounds like he is on the hunt for more $$.

    The odds of having a bad TTC solenoid, bad TC, bad sprocket are out there a bit.

    I have had a 1/2 dozen GM vehicles that I drove well over 200K miles. None ever lost a torque coverter.

    I even felt my solenoid fail. I was driving 70 mph, felt a bump in the trans, 30 seconds latter the SES lamp was on. PO1860. Latter po741 came on as a result of 1860.

    I was also able to verify the ohms reading of the TCC solenoid at the transmission harness connector BEFORE going into the trans.

    This should have been the dealers first step.



    Logan Diagnostic LLC
    www.ledfix.com
    www.airbagcrash.com
    www.logandieselusa.com

    what is it that you look for when you verify the ohms to rad the otc. My 2000 deville also is giving me an 1860

  14. #74
    Submariner409's Avatar
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    Pins U and T in Connector 100 (transmission umbilical) should show a resistance of 10 - 22 Ohms at about 75 deg. F.

    Look at your other similar post up in Deville.

  15. #75
    fivo2fst4u is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Torque Converter Clutch (p0741 tcc stuck off)

    Hi, I must be having a different symptom with my PO741 code, I have a 97 Deville, and the car actually feels as though it is kicking out of gear, I can let off the throttle, then ease back into it, and it'll hold (all this happens in overdrive) it may stay in for another 2 seconds, or another 5 miles, then it will kick back out. I have pulled it down in third and sometimes it will engage 3rd, and hold it firmly, or sometimes it does the same thing in
    3rd , like it's slipping, sometimes (not often) it acts fine all day, so I dont think it's the clutches, I hate all this electronic, computerized crap, for 35 years transmissions were fine without this junk, oh well, just an old man rambling,lol. Has anyone run into this before though? (not the rambling, the trans problem,lol)

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