Trans Question 93 4.9 seville
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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, Trans Question 93 4.9 seville in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Hello! Got a question. Car only has 103K on it. Runs great, just passed emissions below standards in all cats ...
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    orange110 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    Hello!
    Got a question. Car only has 103K on it. Runs great, just passed emissions below standards in all cats after I tuned up and replaced a lot of stuff.
    Want to throw in replacement strutmaster struts, which will run about $1 yard,
    but my trans is acting up.
    When the mtor is cold, she won't move when I shift. No burning, no slipping after warm, no noise. Just when cold she does this.
    Solenoid? Something else? I KNOW I don't need a new trans. And I have had fluid filter changes every 40K. I wonder is a piece of varnish is causing the issue that softens when the car is warm?
    Today, she sat six hours after a short trip and went right into motion.
    Again, no whine, no slip, she shifts very smoothly thru the gears, and no burning
    discoloration if fluid.
    Don't want to blow a g on suspension if trans is "going", as a mechanic told me.
    Any clues?

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    BeelzeBob's Avatar
    BeelzeBob is offline I'm a Cadillac Fanatic!
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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    Quote Originally Posted by orange110
    Hello!
    Got a question. Car only has 103K on it. Runs great, just passed emissions below standards in all cats after I tuned up and replaced a lot of stuff.
    Want to throw in replacement strutmaster struts, which will run about $1 yard,
    but my trans is acting up.
    When the mtor is cold, she won't move when I shift. No burning, no slipping after warm, no noise. Just when cold she does this.
    Solenoid? Something else? I KNOW I don't need a new trans. And I have had fluid filter changes every 40K. I wonder is a piece of varnish is causing the issue that softens when the car is warm?
    Today, she sat six hours after a short trip and went right into motion.
    Again, no whine, no slip, she shifts very smoothly thru the gears, and no burning
    discoloration if fluid.
    Don't want to blow a g on suspension if trans is "going", as a mechanic told me.
    Any clues?
    The first thing I would do is to drop the trans pan and check the filter and the pickup tube installation and o-ring seals. If the pickup o-ring seal is cut or mispositioned it could leak air on the suction side when cold and cause loss of drive...then after it warms up a little and softens it will seal and allow oil to pickup. Long shot but the first thing I would check.

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    mattakat's Avatar
    mattakat is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    I have a similar problem, saturday the tranny started slipping, not all the time and only from a stop, once moving the thing was solid. yesterday morning i was halfway to work and taking off from a stop light the thing would barely engage, rev-ed it enough to get out of traffic (very angry rush hour traffic) and got to a parking lot to call work, i tried to move the car again and it worked fine, again shifting fine while moving, no slippage, etc. Only to crap out again further down the road. I had the tranny flushed a month or so ago at a quick lube type place and the filter was not replaced, thought maybe that was causing a problem. nursed it to a garage next to work and they replaced the filter/fluid (everything was clean in the tranny, no metal pieces parts floating around), but when i picked it up it would not engage at all. So, what do you think, is the tranny gone? i towed it and ordered a Jasper trans ($1872.00) but have a week before that is in. Is R&R the tranny a little overkill? this is a '93 eldo (4.9) with 140k on it.

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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    Quote Originally Posted by mattakat
    I have a similar problem, saturday the tranny started slipping, not all the time and only from a stop, once moving the thing was solid. yesterday morning i was halfway to work and taking off from a stop light the thing would barely engage, rev-ed it enough to get out of traffic (very angry rush hour traffic) and got to a parking lot to call work, i tried to move the car again and it worked fine, again shifting fine while moving, no slippage, etc. Only to crap out again further down the road. I had the tranny flushed a month or so ago at a quick lube type place and the filter was not replaced, thought maybe that was causing a problem. nursed it to a garage next to work and they replaced the filter/fluid (everything was clean in the tranny, no metal pieces parts floating around), but when i picked it up it would not engage at all. So, what do you think, is the tranny gone? i towed it and ordered a Jasper trans ($1872.00) but have a week before that is in. Is R&R the tranny a little overkill? this is a '93 eldo (4.9) with 140k on it.
    You are just the next person in the litany of people who have had their trans "flushed" in good faith only ot have the trans fail catostropically within a few weeks. It happens a lot. That is why I steadfastly recommend to people to NEVER have a transmission "flushed" at a shop or quickie oil change. You probably got some debris into the trans from dirty oil from the flushing equipment, debris in a line from the equipment from the last trans flushed, etc...or it stirred up some sort of debris that was in your trans that got in a valve and stuck it. Very very common to have happen if you start stirring things up. Sorry it happened to you but it is very common with flushes. They are nothing but moneymakers for oil change places...and transmission shops a few weeks later....

    I would guess that your trans was OK but a valve is stuck in the valve body...if someone could pull the valve body and clean it out it might work again...but if you tried to move it (revving it as described) it may have destroyed a clutch pack in the process. The replacement trans may b e your best bet. I think that I would stop at the oil change place that did the "flush" and ask them what they are going to do about it. To coincidental to blame on fate.....

    Think about the flush... most everyone ignores their trans until it starts to slip or act up...so...they rush to the oil change place to have the trans "flushed" in the fervent hope that it will cure the problem. So, there is a very high likelyhood that the last trans that was hooked to that flush equipment was failing and generating debris...which you may have in your trans now. Would you get a blood transfusion from an unknown source...???

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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    I thought about talking to the Valvoline shop that flushed the trans, but pretty sure it would do no good except to frustrate me more . It was done the first week of Jan so it took almost 2 months before it crapped out and with 140k on the trany i am sure they are just going to say "dems da breaks - old trans, it was ready to go" even though there was no problems before that.

    I agree completely on the flushing idea - never doing that again, not at a "quikie" place anyway.

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    Mogul345 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    Quote Originally Posted by mattakat
    I thought about talking to the Valvoline shop that flushed the trans, but pretty sure it would do no good except to frustrate me more . It was done the first week of Jan so it took almost 2 months before it crapped out and with 140k on the trany i am sure they are just going to say "dems da breaks - old trans, it was ready to go" even though there was no problems before that.

    I agree completely on the flushing idea - never doing that again, not at a "quikie" place anyway.
    NO NO NO!!! God I work for Valvoline, they'll buy you a new tranny. Here's how you do it. First, you call up 1-800-Fastchange, it should be on the back of your receipt. When you get someone on the line, sound pissed, tell them what happened, and that it's crap that it blew up, that they told you that there would be no problems. Next, tell them that you've spoken with your lawyer about it, and as a reserve attack, tell them that you are also going to call the local news about it (I'm assuming every local news channel has some sort of "on your side" reporter to help out the common guy that got screwed somewhere). Once word gets out from the call center, you'll be contacted by the Area manager, and the manager. The manager will probably try and tell you to piss off, but the area manager should override him and will probably bend over and let you have your way with him. The trick is to threaten to bring in a third party, such as the laywer or the news. Valvoline as a company is deathly afraid of bad press. There's recently been an investigation by dateline NBC or somebody that went undercover to see how bad the quickie lube chains were for pushing crap on people they don't need. Somehow Valvoline got away scot-free, but they're afraid. So afraid, we've replaced oil pans that came to us screwed up by Wal-Mart, Jiffy Lube, etc. Clearly not our fault, but we were last to touch it.

    Now, somewhat in defense of Valvoline, not all of us that work there are idiots. If you came into VIOC with your seville, most of my co-workers and I wouldn't have even dared recommend you have it flushed. But your experience will vary store to store. I refuse to even help out at any of the surrounding store, due to the idiots that work at them.

    Over the past few years at VIOC, profit has come ahead of sensibility. No matter what dateline says, most stores will try and push you to get extra stuff like tranny flushes, even when you don't need it or it shouldn't be done. And then when it breaks, they just fire the employees involved for making a "mistake". Do realize, that if you do get your free tranny, a couple people will probably lose their jobs. Valvoline is an evil company, they treat their employees like crap and their customers like walking piggy banks just waiting to be shattered.

  8. #7
    Mogul345 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    Quote Originally Posted by bbob
    You are just the next person in the litany of people who have had their trans "flushed" in good faith only ot have the trans fail catostropically within a few weeks. It happens a lot.
    Acutally, it really doesn't. In the 5 years I've worked at Valvoline, we've never had a tranny we flushed blow on us. Even in our area, in which most stores are staffed by toothless and brainless rednecks, I can only think of maybe 2 or 3 in the past 5 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by bbob
    You probably got some debris into the trans from dirty oil from the flushing equipment, debris in a line from the equipment from the last trans flushed, etc...
    Again, unlikely. The machines used are essentially nothing more than a piston in a tube. The trans pump pushes the old fluid into one end, pushing on the piston which forces the new fluid on the other side into the system. Old fluid never touches new fluid in the machine, unless you get some total idiot working on your car. At that point, its operator error, not the machine's fault.

    As for debris in the lines, the ones that are connected to your car and serve as the link between your car and the lines permanently connected to the machine do both get used for clean and dirty fluid, since you don't know which line is the "in" and which one's the "out" till you start the car to see. So there is the possbility of debris in there. However, these lines always get drained after use. So its possible for debris to be in there, but its highly unlikely, and its also debris that is either going to be small enough to pass through your trans filter anyway, or it will be caught by the filter, since the path of fluid in a tranny is pan -> filter -> tranny -> cooler -> back to pan. The flush machines hook up inline between the tranny and the cooler.

    Quote Originally Posted by bbob
    or it stirred up some sort of debris that was in your trans that got in a valve and stuck it. Very very common to have happen if you start stirring things up.
    I wouldn't say common, but this is a plausible explanation. Although again, if your tranny was "that" dirty, shame on you for not changing your tranny fluid more regularly. That just shouldn't happen in a well maintained tranny.


    Quote Originally Posted by bbob
    Sorry it happened to you but it is very common with flushes. They are nothing but moneymakers for oil change places...and transmission shops a few weeks later....
    Now I'll give this one to you. They are straight profit. We charge 90 bucks, and probably about 75 of it is profit. But, I've also heard that dealerships in my area are also doing trans. flushes too. So it's not just the quickie lubes.

    Quote Originally Posted by bbob
    I think that I would stop at the oil change place that did the "flush" and ask them what they are going to do about it. To coincidental to blame on fate.....
    See my above post on instructions on what to say...


    Quote Originally Posted by bbob
    Think about the flush... most everyone ignores their trans until it starts to slip or act up...so...they rush to the oil change place to have the trans "flushed" in the fervent hope that it will cure the problem. So, there is a very high likelyhood that the last trans that was hooked to that flush equipment was failing and generating debris...which you may have in your trans now. Would you get a blood transfusion from an unknown source...???
    Actually, I'd say that in my experience, most people go beyond the recommended mileage to have the fluid changed, but most don't go ridiculously far over. So most of the time they aren't having problems. We usually try and turn away the ones that are to a real shop (At least we used to, see above post again). I've flushed all my family's automatic cars repeatedly with the same machine, and never had problems. Everyone I've worked with has used that same machine on their cars. We use that same machine on customers' cars. If you're tranny goes after a flush, shame on the employee for not turning you away because they should have seen your mileage and how bad it was, and shame on you for not taking care of your car better.

    And if you want my personal opinion on what you should do to replace the fluid in a tranny, you should flush it first, then drop the pan and change the filter, and then top it off. That way you get all the fluid out of the converter, cooler and cooler lines, and any debris that would have gotten knocked loose and caught by the old filter would be removed.

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    89eldorado is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Thumbs down Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    First and foremost Ive always changed my own cars fluids...



    I question the use of these machines which pump tranny fluid in and out of an engine.

    What happens when the pump is hooked up wrong?

    Seems like dirty fluid would be pumped into the engine if it was hooked up in reverse and the engine was running... You keep the engine running, and thus the tranny pump running, right? Wouldnt this blow the seals in the transmission or external fluid changer deal?

    I can see that if you caught this right away it might not do much, but what if you walk away and keep it running?

    Im not sure of much but $70+ for a minimum wage overworked grease monkey (I was one years ago) to work with a transmissions is not smart in my book...

    Regards,
    Brian
    89eldorado

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    BeelzeBob's Avatar
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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    [QUOTE=Mogul345]

    Acutally, it really doesn't. .

    At that point, its operator error, not the machine's fault.

    As for debris in the lines, So there is the possbility of debris in there. However, these lines always get drained after use.

    Although again, if your tranny was "that" dirty, shame on you for not changing your tranny fluid more regularly.




    Yes, it really does. I have heard from a number of owners that report trans problems....they just didn't associate the possibility that the "flush" that they had done several weeks earlier could have caused the problem....

    I never once said it was the machines fault....operator error is possible and likely. Only way to avoid it is to not have the flush done.

    I was commenting on peoples maintenaince habits or scolding them.. The fact is that there are a lot of poorly maintained transmissions out there...and the last trans that was hooked to the flush machine just before yours could have been one of those....LOL

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    Mogul345 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Trans Question 93 4.9 seville

    Quote Originally Posted by 89eldorado
    First and foremost Ive always changed my own cars fluids...



    I question the use of these machines which pump tranny fluid in and out of an engine.

    What happens when the pump is hooked up wrong?

    Seems like dirty fluid would be pumped into the engine if it was hooked up in reverse and the engine was running... You keep the engine running, and thus the tranny pump running, right? Wouldnt this blow the seals in the transmission or external fluid changer deal?

    I can see that if you caught this right away it might not do much, but what if you walk away and keep it running?

    Im not sure of much but $70+ for a minimum wage overworked grease monkey (I was one years ago) to work with a transmissions is not smart in my book...

    Regards,
    Brian
    89eldorado

    I agree, I am overworked. However, the machine itself actually does none of the pumping. The old fluid, which is being pumped into the machine by the trans. pump itself, pushes on the piston in the machine, which then said piston pushes the new fluid on the other side of the piston into the tranny. At the start of the procedure, the piston is totally at the bottom of the cylinder. Theres only new fluid in the cylinder, and the piston is bottomed out. If you do hook it up backwards, a check valve in the machine will just open, filling up the catchcan in the machine and then most likely causing a big mess (dunno, never seen it). I really can't see how you can screw hooking it up though. The lines are see-through, so you can clearly see which way the fluid is flowing. It's almost like a 3rd grade science project. In anycase, if the tech hooks it up backwards, he's got to have the intelligence of a lemming.

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