Oil Analysis: Proof is in the results

noahsdad · #1 (**permalink**) 10-22-06, 11:20 AM

This is not a thread to invoke another mineral vs synthetic oil debate, just a report on real world results, analyzed at an independent lab. Use the info to make your own choices.

As many of you know, I elected to try Amsoil synthetic in my 1987 SDV HT-4100 as one way of preserving it. Many here advised against it, but after reading hundreds of pages of science and oil technology, I felt comfortable with the choice.

To test the theory, I've elected to send drain samples for analysis to Blackstone Laboratories in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. This company does fleet analysis for large farms, trucking and heavy equipment companies, as well as individual owners. They are not affiliated with any oil company or manufacturer.

For the oil I use Amsoil claims drain intervals of up to 25 thousand miles or one year. As an old school wrench bender, and the son of an even older school mechanic, my conscience won't allow me to go that long, so I change the oil at six month intervals, during which the car accumulates about 3500-4000 miles of mostly city driving. Even though Amsoil is double the cost of regular oil, it works out about even in terms of cost. The car has 53K miles and has had reasonably good care its entire life.

The first analysis results taken last May established a baseline. At that time, the lab tech who did the testing commented, "The GM 4.1 is not the best wearing engine, but yours is wearing better than most." It also was slightly better than the universal average of gasoline engines tested.

The latest results, taken from a sample October 14th (six months, 3600 miles) were significantly improved. The trace metals are all down, meaning less wear inside the engine. When compared to universal averages, my 4100 is wearing at a rate 67% slower than most engines. The total base number of the Amsoil sample was only a fraction below that of fresh oil, meaning it could have been left in to run considerably longer. The lab tech has recommended I leave the next batch in for 4200 miles. This time the comment section included the sentence "You're doing something right, keep it up."

If you're interested, I'll be posting the full data comparison on my blog in the next week or two: Cadillac HT-4100 / The Quest for 200K

C66 Racing · #2 (**permalink**) 10-22-06, 12:57 PM

Glad to see that AMSOIL is performing as well as you hoped it would in your car despite its age and mileage.

For those that haven't seen a used oil report, here is a link to one I had performed on a customer's 99 Corvette using Blackstone Labs as noahsdad did:
Corvette C5 AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30 Used Oil Analysis Report
Note: The 6/24 and 5/06 analysis were from AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30, the 3/11 analysis was using German Castrol Synthetic 0w30.

There is much useful data from these samples including trending.

creeker · #3 (**permalink**) 10-22-06, 02:45 PM

Thanks for your great instuctions on how to remove power antenna, I have a1980 cdv with a dead antenna, I would assume it is the same design.

thu · #4 (**permalink**) 10-22-06, 11:47 PM

I wonder what your results would be if you tried another synthetic. Care to try one for your next oil change and UOA?

N0DIH · #5 (**permalink**) 10-23-06, 05:32 PM

It would be interesting to see a side by side of the major synthetics (Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline) and see how they stack up side by side in real world testing. Then, at the end, or in the middle between each synthetic, go back to a std petroleum, say Halvoline (in Amsoil's testing, Havoline 5W30 had a better wear scar than Quaker State Synthetic and Syntech synthetic....) and see how it compares.

LONG term testing at best.

C66 Racing · #6 (**permalink**) 10-23-06, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0DIH

It would be interesting to see a side by side of the major synthetics (Mobil 1, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline) and see how they stack up side by side in real world testing.

Have you spent any time on the bob is the oil guy website? Though it is not the actual scientific test you and many others are looking for, there are hundreds of real world used oil analysis reports there - enough to make your head hurt. I spent weeks reviewing them after I lost a motor in 2003 before deciding to switch to AMSOIL.

chevelle · #7 (**permalink**) 10-24-06, 12:04 AM

"Bob is the Amsoil Guy" website you mean...???

That website is purely a shill for Amsoil and AutoRx and every other sort of snake oil. Read thru any thread and invariably the poster will be recommended to AutoRx the engine "for cleanliness" and to use Amsoil...oh...and don't forget to send you used oil samples to Blackstone Labs for analysis....LOL. Look at the "sponsors" for the website and try posting anything negative about Amsoil or any of the "sponsors" products.

Now the Amsoil salesmen invade this forum.

noahsdad · #8 (**permalink**) 10-24-06, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevelle

Now the Amsoil salesmen invade this forum.

I'm not an Amsoil salesmen, nor am I suggesting anyone use the product. I merely am posting my results after using it. When I first posted here about switching to Amsoil, several people (you among them) told me I was wasting my time, my money, and probably my engine. You're a very bright guy Chevelle, and I admire the depth of your knowledge, but you can't be an expert on everything.

People may get the same results with Mobil 1, Castrol Syntech, Rotella, or Sam's Club Super Duper Recycled French Fry Oil. If they do, I hope they post them here - maybe I 'll switch. But until then, I'm sticking with what works.

BTW, Blackstone is in no way affiliated with Amsoil.

Tailfin · #9 (**permalink**) 10-24-06, 09:06 AM

Damn it, the nature of the universe will be uncovered and spacecraft motorists are still going to be debating lubricants!

I'm going to try to sit this one out, but I have a few cents.

I too respect Chevelle's knowledge greatly... In fact, if anyone else had posted that in opposition to an independent lab report, I probably wouldn't have thought much of it. I do think it's possible for a salesman, even if he is a salesman, to be telling something genuine about the product. Now, I would never go on this alone, but it can't be completely ruled out. Then again, we don't KNOW for sure what goes on at Blackstone either. So I'm lost on that haha. Moving on...

I have an experiment to suggest. We don't KNOW whether Blackstone is, officially or unofficially, affiliated with Amsoil, Bob, or some syllogism of the two....and that is the problem. If there is no motive, there should be no problem with objectivity, but we have no actual proof of that...so that is what we need to test before we test the oil.

I noticed in the lab report that in Blackstone's fine thoroughness, they mention the brand and type of oil. I think a sample should be sent to them (perhaps I'll do this myself when I stop worrying about money lol), WITHOUT giving them the brand name of the oil. If they really have no bias, then they have no good reason to refuse the test on that basis. I'd provide them with the viscosity index, and maybe the API certifications, but not the brand. In fact...yeah, if I get time, I'll do this... I'd do two tests before I'd trust them... The first, I'd send them used crap-tastic oil...Super Tech or some convenience store crap oil and have them send me the results... Then I would use the same oil the second time, and the second time tell them it's Amsoil. If I see a dramatic improvement in the report...well...slap 'em with a wet fish.

HUF · #10 (**permalink**) 10-24-06, 09:42 AM

I am afraid the Blackstone can recognize Amsoil (or any other brand for that matter) by specific signature - the additives package.

"Honest salesman"... hmmm sounds funny.

noahsdad · #11 (**permalink**) 10-24-06, 10:16 AM

Blackstone Laboratories - Which Oil to Use

Definitely Amsoil cultists here.

N0DIH · #12 (**permalink**) 10-24-06, 12:17 PM

The site is so messy and hard to find I gave up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C66 Racing

Have you spent any time on the bob is the oil guy website? Though it is not the actual scientific test you and many others are looking for, there are hundreds of real world used oil analysis reports there - enough to make your head hurt. I spent weeks reviewing them after I lost a motor in 2003 before deciding to switch to AMSOIL.

Tailfin · #13 (**permalink**) 10-24-06, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HUF

I am afraid the Blackstone can recognize Amsoil (or any other brand for that matter) by specific signature - the additives package.

"Honest salesman"... hmmm sounds funny.

That maybe so, but the second time, I would not send them the baseline, just the used oil for analysis. Additives break down over time, so they might just assume I ran it for 50,000 miles or something lol. Either way, I could further the experiment by sending them a sample of just slightly used Royal Purple or something, tell them that's Amsoil, and see if they contradict respectively. That way, we could tell if they only question the Amsoil label if the oil does not turn out well. Another synthetic, just slightly used, would turn out well, I trust...so if they are just trying to make Amsoil look good, then they'll probably only contradict if the oil is Amsoil when it looks bad.

It could also be they can tell a synthetic from dino, I'd buy that... This is getting complicated lol. Actually, how about send them two actual Amsoil samples, one with just a normal usage, and another with normal usage, and manually added engine block dust, say, sanded off a junkyard block hehe. See if they try to fudge or cover up the additional traces of metal. Throw a few drops of sulfuric acid in, and the trap's set

N0DIH · #14 (**permalink**) 10-25-06, 01:09 AM

Confuse them, grind up some metal that isn't from an engine, like say some stainless steel, see if they can ID it....

C66 Racing · #15 (**permalink**) 10-25-06, 10:02 PM

Trying to dispell the conspiracy theories without fanning the fires any...

AMSOIL contracts oil services through this lab: http://www.oaitesting.com/prices.htm

Blackstone is an independent lab not affiliated with AMSOIL and I use them myself for their unbiased opinions.

Here is a series of four used oil reports I received from Blackstone on a customer's Corvette. The first is for German Castrol, followed by two from AMSOIL and a final one for the German Castrol. I think if you read through their comments you won't find any bias for or against either of the oils:
German Castrol 3-11-05
AMSOIL 5-06-05
AMSOIL 6-24-05
German Castrol 10-28-05

As for "invading" the forum, I'm sorry you feel that way. Yes, I do sell AMSOIL via my racing team, but I really try not to push AMSOIL on anyone. There are many good oils on the market. I try to share information and let the consumer decide for themself. For me, I lost a motor in my Corvette in the 2003 season and did my own research and now use what I feel is the best oil. Others with disagree and that is fine.

P.S. I did buy an 06 CTS-V a few weeks ago as a new daily driver which is really why I joined the forum. I found this site to be the best on the net and look to learn much about my new car here.