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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, Motor oil brand in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Yeah I think brand loyalty is pretty much a thing of the past (or should be anyway). If the oil ...
  1. #16
    gtm245 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Yeah I think brand loyalty is pretty much a thing of the past (or should be anyway). If the oil meets the right specifications then I don't think you will see any difference at all between oils over the life of your engine. Plus I just thought of this, since my car is a 90 and only requires an oil rated SG and GF-2, even the cheapest oil you can find that meets SL and GF-3 ratings is leaps and bounds better than the best SG and GF-2 oil you could find back in 1990.

  2. #17
    zonie77 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Years ago I had an aquaintance that work in a testing lab. While all the rated oils meet the spec some are way above the spec. The premiums are usually worth the little extra you pay for them. If you are doing your own oil changes you're way ahead anyway.

    Most engine wear stems from cold starts. If it's below 20degrees you should be using 5w30. That noise some mentioned is your engine tearing itself up.

    Years ago I started only using premium oils. My engine life went up and the engines I owned and pulled apart were clean internally. Oil usage is less with premium oils. I won't touch the cheapo oils.
    Some oils are darker than others and that is the additives used. QS doesn't reuse old oil. Remember the oils with moly in them? They were almost black coming out of the can. I havn't seen those in years though.

  3. #18
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    Arrow Re: Motor oil brand

    Top brands for me:

    1. Mobil (awesome!)
    2. Penzoil (great stuff)
    3. Havoline Synthetic (good stuff)
    4. QuakerState (diecent)

    5. AmsOil (Great for Race cars / Hi-Performance non Mobil rated)

    Worst brands:
    1. Valvoline (bad expirience once)
    2. Kendall
    3. No name brands... from k-mart, gas stations... etc.

  4. #19
    gtm245 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    "Top brands for me:

    1. Mobil (awesome!)
    2. Penzoil (great stuff)
    3. Havoline Synthetic (good stuff)
    4. QuakerState (diecent)"


    JefferyG you say your top pick for motor oil is Mobil. Do you mean Mobil 1 or Mobil Drive Clean? If your talking about Mobil Drive Clean why do you consider it awesome? If I am correct it is a group I oil and most other premium dino's are group II.

  5. #20
    Ralph's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    When I was at the oil change place, they told me that AMSOIL is THE best you can buy! They were also charging 10 dollars per litre for it! GAK :disappoin But I wonder if it can be better than Mobil 1? As far as I know Corvettes and some Mercedes cars come from the factory with Mobil 1, not Amsoil. How long has Amsoil been around? Are they as trusted as the Mobil brand?

    Also I've heard that the U.S. Army used synthetic in the tanks during WW2 because regular oil broke down too much in the African campaigns? Also in the airplanes because of the demanding useage of those vehicles. If this is true, then synthetic must afford more protection than dino oils?

  6. #21
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Quote Originally Posted by gtm245
    "Top brands for me:

    1. Mobil (awesome!)
    2. Penzoil (great stuff)
    3. Havoline Synthetic (good stuff)
    4. QuakerState (diecent)"


    JefferyG you say your top pick for motor oil is Mobil. Do you mean Mobil 1 or Mobil Drive Clean? If your talking about Mobil Drive Clean why do you consider it awesome? If I am correct it is a group I oil and most other premium dino's are group II.
    I meant Mobil 1, gtm. Mobil Drive Clean, is based on regular fossil but it has engineered additives to it.

  7. #22
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Castrol Synthetic Blend 10w30 - 5qt
    Castrol Syntec 10w30 - 2qt

    The 2qts of full synthetic help on cold mornings and hot days without breaking the bank

  8. #23
    gtm245 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Castrol Syntec is a waste of money IMO. It is a group III refined motor oil (refined from dino base stocks) and not a "true" synthetic. True synthetics are PAO based like AMSOIL and maybe Mobil 1 still is. If you want to get a high quality group III oil, use Chevron Supreme for about $1.09/qt. Chevron Supreme doesn't even market it as a synthetic, just as a normal dino oil which it really is. But if they wanted to be like Castrol they could say it is a synthetic.

  9. #24
    Geno Castellano is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph
    When I was at the oil change place, they told me that AMSOIL is THE best you can buy! They were also charging 10 dollars per litre for it! GAK :disappoin But I wonder if it can be better than Mobil 1? As far as I know Corvettes and some Mercedes cars come from the factory with Mobil 1, not Amsoil. How long has Amsoil been around? Are they as trusted as the Mobil brand?

    Also I've heard that the U.S. Army used synthetic in the tanks during WW2 because regular oil broke down too much in the African campaigns? Also in the airplanes because of the demanding useage of those vehicles. If this is true, then synthetic must afford more protection than dino oils?
    Of course Amsoil is the best. They'll make the most money on it due to the fancy pyramid marketing scheme that Amsoil uses with "dealers" and such.

    The only synthetic oil that meets GM specifications is Mobil 1. Amsoil just doesn't compare. The Corvette and the Cadillac XLR/SRX come from the factory with Mobil 1 synthetic as the factory fill and the recommended oil. That's purely because of the ultra high temperature capability of the synthetic oil. It allows the deletion of the oil cooler on vehicles that will get the oil very hot during track use. The Northstar with the VVT system uses the engine oil as a "hydraulic" system to actuate the cam phasers so the synthetic oil allows the phaser operation at lower temperatures on a cold start. The synthetic oils are being used more often as factory fill oils not because of any superior lubrication characteristics but to eliminate the need for oil coolers and to make the VVT systems more responsive. If the synthetic oil was not recommended then there is little or no gain in using it in an engine.

    Synthetic oil was "developed" due to very high temperature requirements in aviation engines but just because it works good in an airplane engine doesn't it'll work well in an automotive engine. Automotive engines will rarely if ever get their oil above 300 degrees. As long as it's below 300 then conventional oil and synthetic oil are equivalent in performance. Period. So, in normal engines, there's absolutely no need for the synthetic products. Just no real advantage in the normal operating ranges. In racing engines or aviation engines the synthetic oils can also provide an extra measure of insurance against some sort of system failure i.e a bird strikes the oil cooler and plugs it up and the oil starts to overheat. A synthetic oil would not normally be required for proper operation but with the temperature climbing due to the clogged cooler the synthetic might allow the engine to continue running until you can land or make the last few laps.

  10. #25
    gtm245 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    "The only synthetic oil that meets GM specifications is Mobil 1. Amsoil does not hack it."

    Actually Geno, Mobil 1 is not the only oil to meet GM specs. Valvoline SynPower and Havoline Synthetic both meet Corvette and all other GM oil specs. I don't know of any dino oils that meet these specs, but most synthetic oils do.

  11. #26
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano
    Of course Amsoil is the best. They'll make the most money on it due to the fancy pyramid marketing scheme that Amsoil uses with "dealers" and such.

    The only synthetic oil that meets GM specifications is Mobil 1. Amsoil just doesn't compare. The Corvette and the Cadillac XLR/SRX come from the factory with Mobil 1 synthetic as the factory fill and the recommended oil. That's purely because of the ultra high temperature capability of the synthetic oil. It allows the deletion of the oil cooler on vehicles that will get the oil very hot during track use. The Northstar with the VVT system uses the engine oil as a "hydraulic" system to actuate the cam phasers so the synthetic oil allows the phaser operation at lower temperatures on a cold start. The synthetic oils are being used more often as factory fill oils not because of any superior lubrication characteristics but to eliminate the need for oil coolers and to make the VVT systems more responsive. If the synthetic oil was not recommended then there is little or no gain in using it in an engine.

    Synthetic oil was "developed" due to very high temperature requirements in aviation engines but just because it works good in an airplane engine doesn't it'll work well in an automotive engine. Automotive engines will rarely if ever get their oil above 300 degrees. As long as it's below 300 then conventional oil and synthetic oil are equivalent in performance. Period. So, in normal engines, there's absolutely no need for the synthetic products. Just no real advantage in the normal operating ranges. In racing engines or aviation engines the synthetic oils can also provide an extra measure of insurance against some sort of system failure i.e a bird strikes the oil cooler and plugs it up and the oil starts to overheat. A synthetic oil would not normally be required for proper operation but with the temperature climbing due to the clogged cooler the synthetic might allow the engine to continue running until you can land or make the last few laps.
    There are only two real reasons that I use synthetic:

    #1. It is supposed to have better flow characteristics in very cold climates, and remain liquid even as low as -45 C (Mobil One)

    #2. Supposedly, with syn oil, a small film of the oil stays on the cylender walls, etc. so that during start-up, there is instant protection from wear. Also advertized was the statement that 70% of engine wear occurs at start-up. (Castrol commercial?)

    If either of these are not correct or true, then personally I don't feel the extra expense is worth my time and money.

  12. #27
    gtm245 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Actually dino oils as well as synthetic oils leave a film (or coating if you will) onto cylinder walls, bearings, camshafts, basically all oil related surfaces for lubrication upon the next start-up. If there was no coating left after you shut the engine down, the next time you started it up metal would grind against metal inside your engine.

  13. #28
    Geno Castellano is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph
    There are only two real reasons that I use synthetic:

    #1. It is supposed to have better flow characteristics in very cold climates, and remain liquid even as low as -45 C (Mobil One)

    #2. Supposedly, with syn oil, a small film of the oil stays on the cylender walls, etc. so that during start-up, there is instant protection from wear. Also advertized was the statement that 70% of engine wear occurs at start-up. (Castrol commercial?)

    If either of these are not correct or true, then personally I don't feel the extra expense is worth my time and money.
    Are you coldstarting your engine at -45? If not, then you don't need synthetic oil. Conventional oil will work fine down to the -40 range. The factory routinely tests the engines on coldstarts down to -40 with the conventional motor oils. They work fine despite all the scare tactics.

    In all the time I've spent researching this stuff, conventional oil seems to actually hold a better film on parts when the engine is shut down. In reality, all oil clings to the metal parts and stays put to some extent. If they didn't then the engines would tear up very quickly. Saying that synthetic "clings to the parts" is just stating the obvious. So does conventional oil. Synthetic really offers no advantage for this at all.

    Sythetic oil is good if you need to operate the oil above 300 degrees or cold start below -40. This is well outside of the range of about 99% of ordinary drivers.

  14. #29
    Anthony Cipriano is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Quote Originally Posted by gtm245
    "The only synthetic oil that meets GM specifications is Mobil 1. Amsoil does not hack it."

    Actually Anthony, Mobil 1 is not the only oil to meet GM specs. Valvoline SynPower and Havoline Synthetic both meet Corvette and all other GM oil specs. I don't know of any dino oils that meet these specs, but most synthetic oils do.
    You may be correct. I know that the Amsoil does not meet the synthetic oil specs. I'll have to check on the others. As of a few years ago none of the other synthetics met the GM standards. Since Texaco does a lot of oil and lube developement and works with GM I wouldn't doubt that their synthetic product has been approved. I'm not so sure about the Valvoline.

    We need a GM tech to check with their lube guys to see the latest approval. I do know that the Mobil 1 is the only oil approved for factory fill in applications requiring synthetic such as the Corvette and Northstar XLR/SRX engines.

  15. #30
    Ralph's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil brand

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Cipriano
    Are you coldstarting your engine at -45? If not, then you don't need synthetic oil. Conventional oil will work fine down to the -40 range. The factory routinely tests the engines on coldstarts down to -40 with the conventional motor oils. They work fine despite all the scare tactics.

    In all the time I've spent researching this stuff, conventional oil seems to actually hold a better film on parts when the engine is shut down. In reality, all oil clings to the metal parts and stays put to some extent. If they didn't then the engines would tear up very quickly. Saying that synthetic "clings to the parts" is just stating the obvious. So does conventional oil. Synthetic really offers no advantage for this at all.

    Sythetic oil is good if you need to operate the oil above 300 degrees or cold start below -40. This is well outside of the range of about 99% of ordinary drivers.
    Does -59 with the wind count? (smilie should be here-not working)

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