What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?
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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; If i use a cleaner inside my engine, what should i use? I have PEN-RAY motor flush at the shop. ...
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    caddeville's Avatar
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    What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    If i use a cleaner inside my engine, what should i use? I have PEN-RAY motor flush at the shop. Do these "5 minute cleaners" actually work? My 4100 lifters have a hammer knock when warm, not all of them, just 1, or 3 or 4. Is that due to sludge? Like, is there not enough oil getting in? The knock is there when cold, but you cannot hear outside unless you take a stethoscope to the hold down bolt, it just gets louder when warm. My car has 94,000 miles on it, and my dad's has 170,000 miles on his.They both knock the same. My 86 fleetwood also has this knock with 99,000 miles. WTF is up with these POS?

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    Tailfin's Avatar
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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    Hehe, the 4100 was not one of their better engines, to put it nicely....but I'm sure it's over-bashed. Learning curve of engineering really...anyhoo... I'm not sure exactly what causes it. I think this was Cadillac's first attempt at an aluminum block, and they had a lot of kinks to work out.

    As for the flush, there are a lot of threads on here and most of the stuff you buy is rubbish, but there are a few that are helpful. The front runners seem to be Seafoam and GM TEC. I personally find that the GM TEC is a more effective carbon buster. Seafoam can be added to the oil or fuel as well though. I would use GM TEC through the vacuum hose as directed (there is a detailed thread on here in Tech Tips on that procedure), and the white smoke out the back will indicate the carbon it's ridding your engine of. You can buy Seafoam at most auto parts stores. The GM TEC, just go to any GM dealer's parts department. As for sludge, try changing your oil every few weeks a few times so it gets rid of more dirt than it builds up. What I do sometimes is change it, and in a couple weeks add Seafoam (don't overdo that) to the oil, run it for a day or two with that in there, and change it again. In any of these cases, be very careful not to pour the stuff in too fast. If all that doesn't help, then you probably have a more serious problem than sludge. If you have a large amount of it, you may want to pull off the oil pan after one of the oil changes and clean it inside so none of whatever gunk may be in it gets recirculated through the engine.

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    zonie77 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    I prefer about half a quart of ATF in the oil. It's high detergent. As Tailfin said, change the oil and filter every couple weeks , or 200-500 miles the first time, if you are running detergent in an engine you suspect of being sludged.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    I know about the ATF trick, it also softens the seals up. When i got my caddy, my oil had the colour & viscosity of tar. Over the period of 1 year, the had been at the shop and driven around the parkin lot only. I changed the oil 6 times as it got dark real quick. I changed it again at home 3 months ago and its fine now. All three of the 4100 i am around knock the same, but one is louder than the other etc.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    A "hammer knock" is a real odd way to describe lifter noise. Valvetrain stuff usually sounds like someone clicking a retractable pen repeatedly. Does that more accurately describe the sound? If not theres a chance it could be something else, possibly the famous main bearing thump. I'm more inclined to think it's that by the way you describe how it reacts to heat as well.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    That pen-clicking analogy sounds accurate for what my 85 Sedan Deville did when I had it. I could never figure out what it was, but it drove me absolutely mad. Would do that accelerating in high gear, and it sounded a little like an exhaust leak, but wasn't. It would go away right after I changed the oil, but be back within a week. Back then, I knew jack about cars though, so I didn't try cleaning it out. Anyway, if that's similar to this situation, maybe it'd be helpful...*shrug*

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    When you take a stethoscope to each rocker arm bolt, it sounds like someone is smashing it with a hammer. Not all of the lifters sound like this. I did this on my car and 6/18 lifters sound like this. There is no power loss, just knock. Outside, the knock sounds the same as when you knock on a door.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    18 lifters? What the.....



    Just messin!

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    It sorta sounds like the 4.9 main problem. BTW, i meant 16 lifters.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    main bearing knock and lifter tap are two totally different things... really can't confuse the two...

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    Rick it is not a tap, it is literally a knock, and it doesn't sound like a fat cam knock either. I will make a video of my dad's caddy upon acceleration when warmed up.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    I remember my 91 eldorado came out with dirty black oil the first three times I changed it,
    Then I used that motor flush in the grey bottle and after that the oil was always clean - nice and clean. Ran like a top.
    The oild didn't come out incrementally cleaner each time - that motor flush seemed to make the difference.

    A little trick I taught myself to get more of the old shit out is to drain it and then pour some fresh oil on through to get rid of the 1/8th qt or so left in the pan there.


    Also everyone I know of swears by that seafoam.
    They also bottle it under "DEEP CREEP" that is the same shit in an aerosol can.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by caddeville View Post
    If i use a cleaner inside my engine, what should i use? I have PEN-RAY motor flush at the shop. Do these "5 minute cleaners" actually work? My 4100 lifters have a hammer knock when warm, not all of them, just 1, or 3 or 4. Is that due to sludge? Like, is there not enough oil getting in? The knock is there when cold, but you cannot hear outside unless you take a stethoscope to the hold down bolt, it just gets louder when warm. My car has 94,000 miles on it, and my dad's has 170,000 miles on his.They both knock the same. My 86 fleetwood also has this knock with 99,000 miles. WTF is up with these POS?
    i know this post is almost 7 yrs old,but this may help any others that came to this site. and have this problem.
    the knock you are hearing after the engine warms up is usually caused from low octane, any less the 91 octane. octane is an additive added in the manufacturing process of gasoline. when the gas and air in your engines cylinder is compressed, it can and will ignite even with out a spark ( just like a diesel motor ) which is some times called PRE-IGNITION. octane prevents the too ignite too soon. usually it will ignite at top dead center (either just before TDC or just after) allowing your spark plugs to do their job. by using lower rated octane in a lot of engines you get a double ignition, one from the gas being compressed and igniting too soon and the second from the spark plus. the timing between these two ignitions is in milliseconds, and you get that knocking sound. one reason you maybe hearing some cylinders knocking and not all could be from a difference in compression ratios. i don't know if you've switched to a lower grade fuel or if you have been running lower grade fuel all along. if you have been using lower grade all along, now that the motor has some miles on it is a reason that just recently you have heard the knock. a cheap way to test if the knocking is caused from the gas is to use 91 or 93 octane. if you have been using it all alone run a tank or two of octane booster some thing that will boost the rating to 97 or better. if the knocking goes away then it's a fuel and timing problem. have the timing readjusted usually advancing it. if that is the problem just go back to 91 or 93 octane. if it still persists then it's something internal, which could be any number of things. as i said i know this post is old but it might help others who like me stumbled across this site.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    Read the fine print on your "octane booster" products - they raise the value by decimal points, not whole digits.........as in 87 to 87.2, not 89.

    "Octane" is not an additive; octane is a rating of resistance to flame front travel in a combustion chamber full of proper ratio fuel/air mixture. ALL engines use a low engine speed system, either electronic or mechanical, to retard the ignition spark some number of degrees FROM maximum advance possible in that engine, so idling spark "knock" is almost non-existent. Octane itself has absolutely nothing to do with when the ignition system fires the spark (the ignition system is tailored to the fuel octane recommended for that engine) - octane controls the fuel burn rate under medium and high load conditions.........and spark "knock" can also be caused by a faulty EGR valve or improper (lean) fuel mixtures.

    Ignition is begun anywhere from about 10 degrees to 40 degrees BTDC - Before Top Dead Center...... Depending on engine rpm, the advance allows cylinder pressure to begin building as the piston nears TDC and maximum pressure to occur at just about 90 degrees ATDC - during the piston (power) downstroke. The exhaust opens way before the piston ever reaches the bottom of its stroke: decreasing cylinder pressure at the lower portion of the downstroke is drag, hurting fuel mileage and power output.

    Additive: Back in the Dark Ages the octane controller (and valve seat wear preventer) was tetraethyl lead. Later, MTBE was used but it was discovered to be a nasty polluter of groundwater. Now, the pet additive is ethanol: because ethanol releases less heat per unit volume, it can be used to control gasoline burn rate.

    The simple statement concerning timing re-adjustment assumes that today's PCM can be controlled or programmed with an add-on "chip" or "tuner" - in many cars that's not possible, and the distributor has gone the way of the dinosaur.
    Sevillian273 and Sevillian273 like this.

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    Re: What is the BEST MOTOR FLUSH out there?

    The guys over at the forum "Bob-Is-The-Oil-Guy" are really anal about engine flushes and have discussed and tested different products to clean engines internals. Seems that their favorites are "KREEN" and AutoRx. Marvel Mystery Oil ("MMO") is always discussed.

    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Board=5&page=1

    Is a "Clean Engine" really a "Happy Engine"? as the ad goes.

    Happy Cleaning!

    Wait til' you read all about the discussions and testing of different oils, oil additives, and fuel additives in the different sections. There are a few chemical engineers over there who are experts on these topics.

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