Here is my X-Mas, Hanakah, Kwanza, ect. gift to everyone::xlol:
Well, I came up with my own therory of what happend. Either my problem was the "El Cheapo" A/C Delco Chinese Water Pump I bought at a local parts distributor, or a failing tensioner that made the water pump go bad or a combination of both!
I'm posting this link as I've included some good info there about tensioners as it appears that the Gates Tensioners are a very good upgraded design from the O.E. that is a sealed unit and utilizes a round spring vs. a flat spring design that is inferior in design in the aftermarket:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...6719-warning-4-9l-dayco-tensioner-pulley.html
Just for the record for everyone to refer to.........This is what I've concluded in my research: Yes; A/C Delco makes Chinese entry level parts also to compete with the rest of the aftermarket parts and deceptivly use their name to pedal cheap parts to consumers through their distributors and parts dealers boxed with the A/C Delco Name! I got this from a very knowledgable customer service rep. at Rockauto.com and even from A/C Delco 800 customer service line, but of course not as candid as I state!
A/C Delco makes an Asian made pump for the 4.9's which is Delco #252-720/ gm#88926234 (this pump is considered an "All Makes" pump stated on their site and Delco said fits many years/models) and their next statement is that its Oversea's Manufactured! They also said since its NOT specifically designed for each application, there could be minor clearance problems on certain applications but will still work as a replacement) This doesn't make sence as I think the truth is closer that the Chinese Delco Pumps have poor quality control! Also this pump does NOT come with a lifetime warranty like the other aftermarket chinese pumps but all I can think of is the scene in "Tommy Boy" about the "Lifetime Guarentee on the box" analogy.
This is what it reminded me of when buying this cheaper "Quality" A/C Delco 1yr warranty pump.
RockAuto sells this for $58.
A/C Delco also makes another pump that is available at the dealers and certain distributors, like Rockauto.com: Delco# 251-595 / gm#12369484 (this pump is noted as "OEM Design" and I was told by both Rock and Delco that this is a better quality North American Pump which could be made in U.S., Canada, Mexico and I'm sure we've all seen Delco stickers on their parts stateing these Mfg. areas which are their premium made line. This pump is
$138 at RockAuto as Rock is a deep discounter of all parts including A/C Delco. I wish I would've known this important detail as I try to buy the best parts for my Eldo but always seem to run into some issue when doing so.......... So I went with the attractive lower price Delco Pump not knowing there was a quality difference. According to both Rock and Delco, they both stated: "you get what you pay for". Whatever:annoyed: But it would've been nice if they had a better description of each pump and difference in quality!
I've found that with many "High End Name Brand Products" in different industries that have a historically premium price attached to the "Brand Name" which is defined as a high quality item that you're purchasing. But in recent years, marketing experts found they could capitalize on their "Brand Name" and use it to produce lower quality items under the brand as intro. lines inorder to intice consumers into buying into the "Brand Name" but is usually made in China as the price is much lower than their High End line. :annoyed:! Well..............got caught again on this one.....:mad2:.
It's something to consider the higher priced pump since its somewhat involved to replace that pump, and the better pump can be bought $100+++ cheaper at Rock rather than buying the same better pump at the dealer.
Unless others can post here their success stories with other aftermarket pumps and how many miles are on them, it would be interesting to know who's pumps for this application are most dureable and reliable.
Now to my tensioner issue. I've learned a very valuable lesson and recieved a great deal of knowledge from a Tech at Gates. If you ever have a failed bearing in any of your belt driven componants, it's probably due to a failed tensioner and you can't go by the old O.E. imprinted scale on the tensioner to access it's condition as that was used for belt stretch but new belts do not stretch any more. Even if you don't have a failed tensioner, I would definitely advise everyone to replace your O.E. or older aftermarket tensioner as it wreaks a silent havoc on all drive accessory componants. I only wish someone would have advised me to do this earlier so I'm replacing every tensioner on all my cars now!
Over the past few years, I've had issues with shreading Goodyear Gatorback Belts every few years (10k miles) which was and indication of something wrong but all accessories looked aligned without any pulley damage. I had a new Delco P.S. whined terribly after the install but that had to be a bad pump. Although I left it on and it quieted down after 15-20 min. but it failed suddenly 9 months later.
Bad Pump or failing tensioner????? :bigroll:
I then had an alternator bearing fail on an original O.E. Alternator 1yr later (this summer) and this car only has 85K ml.
Age or failing tensioner?????? :bang2:
I wish I would've had the Gates tensioner put on when the injectors were replaced and every thing was pulled appart, but I was going to get a Delco Tensioner since the Gates looked so different but never did and now I think maybe if the Gates tensioner was installed at that time, my Delco P.S. Pump would not have failed, nor my alternator bearing fail, and finally the Chinese Delco Water Pump that is currently making a subtle droan.
Bad Water Pump or failing tensioner???????: :wtf: :gah:
Again, the original tensioner was ran on the new waterpump for 9 mo before finally replacing the tensioner when the spring fractured inside and lost tension.
Here are 2 e-mails from Gates regarding tensioners and my suspicous belt problem which we now believe was an indication of a failing tensioner:
> Hello Chris,
>
> Unfortunate to say, but a failing tensioner assembly can cause issues within the rest of the belt drive system. Most common failures are going to be the bearing area ie - water pump bearings, alternator bearings etc.
> ACDelco does not currently carry the Gates Brand Water Pumps, as these will be a NAPA, Gates & O'Reilly product.
>
> Hope this helps -
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Ridgeway
> Automotive Product Application
>
> Gates Corporation
> 1551 Wewatta St. 8N-A7
> Denver, CO 80202
> 303-744-4608
> MR7145@Gates.com
Hello Chris –
There is definitely an issue going on within the ABDS “system” if you are having edge wear / tearing on the belt.
Alignment issues within the system will cause the belt to track off center of the pulley / bearings. With that said, pulleys are designed to have the load carried in the middle of the bearing assembly. Moving that rotating mass pressure point is going to move the pulley / bearing out of its proper designed working parameter.
Misalignment can be from parallel issues to angular issues. Yes Gates does offer the laser alignment tool.Part number 91006
Tension issues can also cause this concern. If proper tension is not being held on the system, then the belt would
be allowed to walk inward and outward as the tensioner arm moved about.
Lack of tension could cause the belt to move in one or the other directions – as goes for excessive tension.
If the tensioner is faulty, this condition could co-exist.
Mark Ridgeway - AAM
Application Research Engineer
Aftermarket Product Application
ASE Certified & Parts Specialist
Labor Claims
The best advice is replace your tensioner if any doubt of its age.......as it can cause a range of harmonics transferred to the bearings of different componants through the belt from what I read in Gates Tech Info that I posted links to in the thread above........Gates even advises in their tech info to replace your tensioner at every belt change. I'd advice to replace it if you put on ANY new componant in the belt drive system if it hasn't been replaced recently: Alternator, P.S. Pump, W. Pump, A/C Comp.
Apparantly, a tensioner also plays a role to absorb "Shock/Harmonics" in addition to automatically tensioning the belt, much like a suspension shock absorber.
I wonder if this device actually prolongs the accessories in its design or is designed for convienience of driving the accessories with 1 belt and ease of changing the belt. Years ago there were no tensioners. Did the more flexible belts inherantly abosorb harmonics? Did componants last longer then? If so, better engineered componants or if not, the technology for the better made componants was not advance?
Just some random thoughts of a new engineered design of a tensioner that can create problems if it is failing. Who knew?:hmm: :noidea:
Hope many can gain from my experiances and make better informed decissions based on this info that I wished I had knowledge of.
Again, I'm interested to hear about ANY Water Pump failures including Delco, Chinese made Delco, or other brand of Aftermarket pump failures or non-failures and mileages on each pump to build some sort of reliability stats. on Waterpumps for all to read.
Well, that concludes this research project. Now I know.
".........and thats all I have to say about that!"
http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/home/blog_data/5/5/images/forestgump.jpg
Chris