e23 and e27
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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, e23 and e27 in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; E23 - EST Signal Problem E27 - Open Throttle Switch Signal what is est? how do i check to find ...
  1. #1
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
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    e23 and e27

    E23 - EST Signal Problem

    E27 - Open Throttle Switch Signal

    what is est? how do i check to find the faults of these problems?

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    MrDobin is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: e23 and e27

    Unsure how you check the "source" of the problem. But this has shown for me on rare occasion when I was using cruise control or held the pedal when turning the car off or on. Clear codes and see if it returns.

    How often is it happening?

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    Re: e23 and e27

    i have cleared the codes many times. the car has never ran right the 8 years ive owned it. when cold it runs great but when it gets warmed up it lugs down between shifts and you have to floor the gas pedal to get anywhere.timing is correct, cap , rotor , plugs and wires were all replaced with new parts. also when coming to a stop, it seems to be idling too high causing the motor to almost die out before it finally downshifts. it was owned by a funeral home and only has around 75,000 on it.

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    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: e23 and e27

    EST = Electronic Spark Timing

    It is a solid state switch, something like a relay, that rely's on pulse's from the ECM. It gets kicked in on closed loop operation (when the car is warmed up) and is more than likely the source of your irritation.

  6. #5
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
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    Re: e23 and e27

    is it a replaceable item? or a short somewhere?

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    Re: e23 and e27

    actually i should ask, is it a ecm fault? and how do i go about finding the problem? i replaced the throttle position sensor and that seems to have solved e27, but 23 is still showing up...

  8. #7
    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Hearse View Post
    is it a replaceable item? or a short somewhere?
    Being as it is a switch it's more than likely replaceable. Where it is and how to get to it I cannot say for your model....sorry.

  9. #8
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    Re: e23 and e27

    that sucks, everything i have read has pointed to EST as the problem, but not one service manual or dealer can tell me exactly what it is/does. how certain are you that it is a switch of some sort?

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    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Hearse View Post
    that sucks, everything i have read has pointed to EST as the problem, but not one service manual or dealer can tell me exactly what it is/does. how certain are you that it is a switch of some sort?
    The EST controls spark advance and the like. It's part of the entire circuit which includes, among other things, the knock sensor, the pick up coil, the ignition control module, and the ignition coil. All must be in working order for the circuit to run properly. IIRC it is actually IN the ECM...

    When was the last time you replaced any of these parts?

    Seeing as how it it runs crappy in closed loop operation, the pick up coil or the ICM (ignition control module) may be your culprit.

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    Re: e23 and e27

    i have seen that a fisher body manual lists part locations, would that be helpful in this case? could it be the ignition control box? i have read that there is one under the dashboard...

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    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: e23 and e27

    The problem is the circuit is not being completed somewhere along the line. There are a few things you can test (free) to rule out. Try having the ICM tested. Most auto parts stores can hook it up and tell you. You will have to remove it, though.

  13. #12
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    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by the recluse View Post
    The EST controls spark advance and the like. It's part of the entire circuit which includes, among other things, the knock sensor, the pick up coil, the ignition control module, and the ignition coil. All must be in working order for the circuit to run properly. IIRC it is actually IN the ECM...

    When was the last time you replaced any of these parts?

    Seeing as how it it runs crappy in closed loop operation, the pick up coil or the ICM (ignition control module) may be your culprit.
    i havent replaced any of those parts, where is a good place to begin , or a way to test the parts in question? are all of these parts available new?

    also if indeed the ICM needs replaced, what numbers are important when searching for a replacement? do they have to be reprogrammed for my car? ive been a body and paint guy for 14 years, but im not a mechanic by any means, sorry if im asking a lot of questions, its almost halloween and id really like to be able to drive my hearse, and im real handy with a test meter and a wrench...

  14. #13
    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Hearse View Post
    i havent replaced any of those parts, where is a good place to begin , or a way to test the parts in question? are all of these parts available new?

    also if indeed the ICM needs replaced, what numbers are important when searching for a replacement? do they have to be reprogrammed for my car? ive been a body and paint guy for 14 years, but im not a mechanic by any means, sorry if im asking a lot of questions, its almost halloween and id really like to be able to drive my hearse, and im real handy with a test meter and a wrench...
    All the parts can be had at a local parts house. The ICM is plug and play and can had for about $15 to $20, same with the ignition coil. It sits on top of the distributor cap underneath the the little "lump" in between the plug wires. The pick up coil is probably the last thing I would touch (although I think it could be the reason for the poor performance), as it costs the most. Some cases as much as $100 and is inside the distributor itself, pain in the ass...

    You can test the ICM at the parts house for free (if they have the tester, of course, call and find out). It is under the cap, under the rotor button, and has 2 harnesses connected to it, one on each end.

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    Re: e23 and e27

    ok i was confused, i assumed the ICM was one of the boxes under the dash, ill have it tested tomorrow and report back with the results. would it cause a hot run problem though?

  16. #15
    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: e23 and e27

    Hot run? That would probably be the cooling system. What are the symptoms?

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