e23 and e27 - Page 2
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 66
HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, e23 and e27 in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Originally Posted by the recluse IIRC it is actually IN the ECM... what is IIRC?...
  1. #16
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by the recluse View Post
    IIRC it is actually IN the ECM...
    what is IIRC?

  2. #17
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 2011 Crown Vic LX
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Oak Creek, WI
    Posts
    5,310

    Re: e23 and e27

    Internet speak for "If I remember correctly".

  3. #18
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    thats a new one for me...

  4. #19
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    so according to 2 different parts stores, there is no knock sensor on my motor, is this correct?

  5. #20
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 2011 Crown Vic LX
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Oak Creek, WI
    Posts
    5,310

    Re: e23 and e27

    Yup.

  6. #21
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by the recluse View Post
    Hot run? That would probably be the cooling system. What are the symptoms?
    SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION, THE temp is ok, refer to post #3 , the vehicle does not run properly after reaching operation temp...

  7. #22
    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2002 STS, 1991 Eldorado
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    1,016

    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Hearse View Post
    when cold it runs great but when it gets warmed up it lugs down between shifts and you have to floor the gas pedal to get anywhere... it seems to be idling too high causing the motor to almost die out before it finally downshifts.
    Right, this is why the E23 code shows up. In computer controlled vehicles you have two separate "modes" in which the engine runs. In open loop the engine runs with most of the sensors shut off and dumps a lot of fuel through the engine to get it to warm up (dumbed down explanation). Once it reaches operating temps, it goes into closed loop operation where it pools information from the various sensors to get the engine to run its best.

    The problem you seem to be having is in closed loop operation. One of the sensors that the engine is calling on is faulty, whether it's a lose connection or a bad sensor or what not, and is not letting the engine run optimally.

    The computer is indicating an Electronic Spark Timing fault (E23). This variable is configured by compiling info from a variety of sources such as the pick up coil, the ICM, ignition coil, etc, and relaying that back to the ECM. If any of the information received falls outside of the parameters encoded into the ECM, the ECM throws a "fault" code.

    So, with the fault code in mind, you try to deduce all the possible sensors/parts that are controlled by or feed information to the computer that have to do with motor timing and spark. You already replaced the basics such as cap, rotor, plugs, and wires; so in cases where the problem is not fully evident I usually like to start from least expensive to most expensive, like pulling the ICM and having it tested (free to do).

    You can probably rule out the ignition coil because the car runs good in open loop. I say this because if the coil was bad, the possibility remains that the car would run crappy from the start.

    The ICM moderates the current from the coil, like points did back in the day, and is the next logical step in progression. It just so happens to be the cheapest also.

    Pickup coils work with a vehicle's ignition system to regulate spark and communicate to fuel injectors. When one fails, it can have adverse effects on multiple vehicle systems including the engine and fuel system regulators. A pickup coil that has failed, or is about to, may also cause engine stalling and an inability to accelerate smoothly because the fuel injectors are not firing properly or on time with rest of the engine. Unfortunately, this one is a little tricky to tell without just replacing it and is the most expensive/time consuming item on the list for a novice mechanic.

    I know it's long winded, but that is the nutshell of my thought process concerning your symptoms in your vehicle and why I'm telling you where to look

    Good luck and report back...

  8. #23
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    thanks for the detailed reply. your thought process is nearly identical to mine, i just didnt know where to begin. today i pulled the ICM and had it tested at a local parts store. it tested bad twice and good once. i bought a replacement. however i have a 84 seville that runs flawlessly , but is wrecked. when i looked at the pickup coil on my hearse, i saw rusty cruddy crap below it. i pulled both distributors , and will be swapping them tomorrow . the original dist on the hearse seems to have a lot of vertical play where the seville one has a very small amount of play. since the ICM is a non returnable part once installed , im going to hold off on installing it into the replacement distributor . ive got a day to do this before halloween, and will be busting my backside to see that it happens. thanks for all the help given so far, it is much more than i have been able to get locally. and much more than my chiltons books and my limited knowledge of vehicle electrical systems... ill let you know what happens...

  9. #24
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    put the seville distributor intoday, the car now runs better than it ever has since ive owned it. cleared the codes and so far none have returned.

  10. #25
    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2002 STS, 1991 Eldorado
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    1,016

    Re: e23 and e27

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend Hearse View Post
    put the seville distributor intoday, the car now runs better than it ever has since ive owned it. cleared the codes and so far none have returned.
    Then it could have been either the ICM or pick up coil (or both). At any rate, enjoy.

  11. #26
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    thanks for all the help , i would have spent a lot of money on unnecessary parts had i not came here...

  12. #27
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    eh, just my luck, after driving all afternoon is what i thought was a great running car, its now acting sluggigh between shifts, and throwing a E53 - Distributor Signal Interrupt. hmm.....

  13. #28
    the recluse is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2002 STS, 1991 Eldorado
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    1,016

    Re: e23 and e27

    Make sure you have the power wire (pink) fully pressed into the cap and the clip is not broken. Did you change the coil over from the old cap? Did you install the new ICM?

    Somewhere the power signal to the distributor is getting cut and/or dropping off. This can either be the power wire or the dreaded pick up coil

    Check those 2 items and get back

  14. #29
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    power wire is fully pressed into the cap, and i used my new cap . i did not replace the ICM because i didnt see a need , since it was pulled from a perfectly tuned engine. codes 23 and 29 have showed up today. i saw a bit of crud in the flat weatherproof connector for the distributor, but we cleaned it with contact cleaner and a wire brush before reinstallation. i am getting the feeling its time for a 350 swap , or maybe my spare 425.....

  15. #30
    Reverend Hearse's Avatar
    Reverend Hearse is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 1984 Collins hearse, 1979 Coupe , 1984 Seville,1990 fleet'
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Age
    30
    Posts
    85

    Re: e23 and e27

    is there a way to fool the car into thinking its cold all the time? i imagine something like that would kill the gas milage, but thats not a worry to me. i just want to drive the stupid thing....

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting