Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem - Page 2
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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I did the timing but did not yet know to jump A and B on th ADL line under the ...
  1. #16
    beveluv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    I did the timing but did not yet know to jump A and B on th ADL line under the ashtray. Based on revdowrong's reply, I'm guessing the car now runs rough because of advanced timing done by the computer. Is it necessary to retime the engine? If so, I shall retime the engine with A and B on the ADL line jumpered.

    Since I dont see any changes on my dash for the speed that I am going (looks as if speedometer is nonfunctional), I will also change the throttle positions sensor, vehicle speed sensor, and cam sensor.

    Hopefully this will clear up my speedometer issue, shift issue, and fuel distribution issues. Sounds like this may be a bit expensive given the work already done. Any other suggestions or tests that can be ran to eliminate costs are appreciated. I will check a local junk yard for these sensors first.

  2. #17
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    YES, re-time the engine. With the terminals jumpered, timing should be 10 degrees BTDC at any engine speed under 800rpm at any temp above 180 degrees

  3. #18
    beveluv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    You guys are awesome!! The VSS was causing my issues. Now that I have corrected that issue and the hall effect issue, there are no outstanding codes. I still have yet to retime the car while A and B are jumpered. The car is a bit shacky at idle, I am getting not so good gas mileage (current = 14mpg, before engine rebuild = 18mpg) and the muffler has a rattling sound when I am at idle or initial acceleration. I will re-time the car tonight with A and B jumpered and see if that corrects the remaining problems.

  4. #19
    beveluv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    drewsdeville, I think I'm a bit confused. So you say time the engine at 10% before top dead center at less than 800rpm and at any temp above 180%. My car doesnt tell me the rpm's when running, but I have only timed the engine while the car was off and cool. Are you saying that I need to drive the car until I think that the engine is above 180%, leave the engine running and perform the timing? That doesnt sound possible or am I missing something here? The only issue I now have is my gas mileage is horrible and the car is a bit shacky only at idle, hooe the new timing of the engine will help.

  5. #20
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    Yes, you are correct and it IS possible. In fact, I have no clue how you are setting the timing with the engine off. When it's running and the timing light hooked to the #1 plug wire, it needs to be set to the 10 degrees. It's adjusted by loosening the distributor clamp nut and twisting the distributor by hand. The timing is checked by pointing the light at the harmonic balancer, the light lights every time the #1 plug fires, and the timing spec showing where the timing mark on the balancer lines up with the timing scale right above the balancer. You usually need to highlight the timing mark on the balancer with a fluorescent paint so it shows against the timing light easier.

    AS far as the 800 rpm's, either you can hook a engine analyzer to the car (if anyone even has one of them things anymore lol), or find the rpm through the onboard diagnostics. However, since the RPM is not precise, just any under 800, you can usually tell by ear. Just make sure it's not idling fast and you should be ok.

  6. #21
    carnut is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    I find it amazing that you know enough to do head gaskets and a VSS but dont know how an engine's timing is set? I think once those ALDL pins are jumped and a timing light is used, you"ll find the base timing well above 10 degrees. 10 degrees is the spec, but I've found 12 degrees makes quite a difference in driveability.

  7. #22
    beveluv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    I was just lining the mark on the harmonic balancer up with the '0' marking on the waterpump after ensuring that compression was occurring in spark plug hole #1 with my finger. Also, the rotor was between #1 and #8 spark plug terminals. This was all my Haynes Repair Manual tells me to do (this is the only book I've ever used and have used the brand to rebuild 2 other non Cadillac vehicles). I guess I will need to find a timing light to purchase.

    I thought that the crankshaft spins when the ignition is on because of the serpentine belt. Didnt think that I could lift the distributor because of this (crankshaft gear and distributor gear are moving together)? Do you think this may be the cause of my poor gas mileage? I apologize for the amateur questions, I just want to get it right.

  8. #23
    beveluv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    Carnut,

    I guess I still have much to learn. I guess the Haynes book doesnt tell you everything as I always though it did (my only resource for working on 5 different past cars until I purchased a Cadillac and found this site). Is there anywhere that I can find documentation on how to do this step by step so that I dont destroy anything and I get it right? Maybe this is the one thing I should get an authorized mechanic to do for me (sucks to say after rebuilding the entire top half of the engine and I'm sure they will charge me an arm and a leg). I would still like to know how to do this step by step if possible. I see myself needing to do this in the future, as I dont think I will ever waste my money on newer cars that dont have issues. I'd rather pay for parts than make payments.

  9. #24
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    First thing to do is throw that Haynes manual away and get a FSM. Ebay is your friend.

    I too am amazed that you can do head gaskets but don't know how to time the engine. It should not cost you an arm or a leg to have it done. Find a mechanic that will let you watch. As mentioned, it MUST be done at operating temperature and at idle. It's VERY easy and you'll kick yourself once you see how it is done. You WILL need a timing light though. Not much use for them on todays cars, but I think they are still available. Haven't had mine off the shelf in 10 or 15 years.

  10. #25
    carnut is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    I have to give you alot of credit for how far you've come!! With a timing light ( inductive type) and the proper distributor wrench, you simply ground the 2 proper terminals at the ALDL connector once the engines running. That takes the computer out of the timing advance. With the light connected to #1 plug wire and the 2 other leads hooked to the battery, you point it at that mark you lined up with the crank pulley. Make sure that mark is clean so you can read it. Then with the hold down bolt loosened just enough to rotate the whole distributor, move it until either 10 or 12 is lined up on the crank pulley mark. Cinch down the bolt, remove the jumper wire and have a beer! You dont "lift" the distributor, you gently rotate it.

  11. #26
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    Make sure that mark is clean so you can read it.
    Get a piece of chalk and chalk the timing mark. That will make it VERY easy to see.

  12. #27
    beveluv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    Wow, you guys were right. I'm sure I'll beat myself up about this one for a while Timing the engine was a breeze. I just used the instructions that you gave me and it seems to be working out just fine! But before I grab my beer, I noticed that once I removed the jumper wire from the ALDL (no matter if the car was still on or off), the timing advanced from 12 to about 22. Is this correct and expected? The engine seems to be running great. Sounds like I'm about ready for my 600 mile journey to NC. I'm about to test the gas usage. I appreciate all of you guys help. COuldnt have gotten this far without your assistance.

  13. #28
    carnut is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    Very normal for the jump in timing. The ECU gives the engine alot of advance because of its small size. Thats why its very important to jumper those ALDL wires. And you are welcome.

  14. #29
    beveluv is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    The timing worked out perfect thanks to you guys. I am still having a gas mileage issue. It is running at about 11 mpg when before replacing all of the gaskets and cleaning the engine, it was at about 17 mpg. Any ideas of what would cause this? I'm hoping that my helicoils have not failed already. I cleaned the intake manifold when I took it off. I was about to replace the egr valve, but someone stated that it would not cause me to lose that much gas mileage. Besides, the intake manifold is in better condition now than prior to the gasket changes. I'm wondering if I did something incorrectly or if it just a coincidence and another part is bad. I get no codes, so the computer thinks everything is great. Any suggestions are very much appreciated, as I have a 600 mile trip to take at 11mpg as of now.

  15. #30
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    Re: Cadillac Deville 4.9l Engine Problem

    I am still having a gas mileage issue. It is running at about 11 mpg when before replacing all of the gaskets and cleaning the engine, it was at about 17 mpg. Any ideas of what would cause this?
    Leaky FPR? EGR tubes plugged?

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