Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates
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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; OK its been a very long time, over a year since I have been on here. Its really nice to ...
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    Capt Fiero's Avatar
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    Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    OK its been a very long time, over a year since I have been on here. Its really nice to see a great deal familiar people.

    Well if you don't remember me, you should recognize the car, so here goes Pics





    The Rebuild


    Video is here, http://captfiero.com/videos/mycar/my49.wmv

    http://westcoastfieros.com/forum/for...031&PN=1&TPN=3



    I found out a few months I am going to be a dad for the first time, which took my already tight budget and little time to play with the Cadero away. However little by little, its going through its new transformation.


    In June of 2007, I installed a serious race clutch in the car and was loving it, however the trans, didn't like the fuel blown race clutch and 300lbs of torque in trans axle that was designed for a 140lbs of torque 4cyl. I made it about 30 mins before the trans axle went POOF, I was on the hunt for a new / better trans. Average price for the heavy duty getrag 5spd which is rated for double what my old trans was. Wrecking yards wanted $500 for them Private sales, are 350 IF you can find one. I just happened to get a call from another Fiero owner, he needed to sell his car quick. It happened to have a bad clutch, so it was underivable, and owner had lost the keys. He said the car is legal, has papers, just needs a new clutch and new keys. When I saw the car in person, It had the 5spd Getrag, the much better Headlight motors, damn near spotless, new car looking interior. Lowered 2 inches, all poly bushings, only 1 Minor accident, which was all soft damage, (no bent metal, just the composite poly body panes. He said look, he needs it gone, I asked how much he wanted for it, He didn't know, he priced out the clutch job, and it was going to cost him over $1400 in parts and labour. He said, look, he doesn't have time to dicker over price, if I had $300 yes 300 hundred, He'd help me load it onto a flat deck and it was mine. I didn't even question it.

    So we got it home, and I put the 85GT and the 87GT side by side, my idea was going to be, drop out both cradles with engine and trans attached, move the Getrag to my cradle and install it all back into the 85GT. However after removing the rainbow glasses, and taken a hard long look at my 85GT, it had been my baby since I was 18 years old. I am 33 now. I didn't want to see what I was seeing. 2 5" long stress cracks in the top of the strut towers, 3 more cracks in the front suspension, and metal fatigue in many other places, 450,000 Kim's on that chaise, and driving in my late teens all my 20's and into my 30's, it has been used and abused and put away wet too many times. So I mad the gut wrenching design to part my V8 car.

    So the list of swaps went like this. Nice stock interior was removed from the 87 then bagged up and put away. I am not talking just carpets and seats, the ENTIRE interior was gutted, even the gauge pack came out. Then rust proofed the floor pan.

    Next up was steering and braking parts, the 87 was all stock brakes, so I moved all my larger brakes to the 87GT from the 85GT. Instead of getting new keys cut, I simply changed out the entire steering coulomb and re-used my 85GT ignition key. Same went for the doors I used the entire door panels, inner and outer. Only thing I had to do, was take the trunk lock down, leave it at a GM Parts counter and they re-keyed the truck lock to use my 85 Keys.

    My custom 5" cowl hood and 3" cowl deck lid were installed onto the 87GT, I took the entire subfram from the 85GT swapped the better trans onto that car and as an entire package, (engine, trans, Suspension, brakes calipers and rotors, I slide it under the car and slowly raised that package into the the 87GT.

    Whew its installed, so next up was re-designing of the wiring harness, coolant pipes and exhaust. I did not find out until the motor was installed, the shift cables for the new trans has them located dead center in the custom Y-pip, so out comes the old Y-Pipe and start building a new one, took me 2 weeks just to get the correct bends then take it to a Buddy Would take car of the fussy welds for me. Oh I have also relocated the battery to the front of the car, to aid in weight distribution,



    Nonow skip up to present Day

    Something in the main harness got tweaked, We have power at the coil, we did a continuity test for all the wires that go from the Dist shaft, to the ECM and all are good, grounds are also (or at least the grounds seem to be.

    The car was running less that 8 months ago, now when I hit the key, it spins over really fast, but there is not even a hint of it trying to start. How common is it for a 4,9 to have ignition module or pickup coil, I know in Fieros' I know in Fiero's its so common that most people keep the tools and parts needed to replace it, in there glove box. Even my wife can do a module by herself along side the road.

    So to recap, turn master battery, system comes online, all gauges reading in there default position.

    Turn the key, the motor spins over. We can smell raw fuel from the tail pipe, hut still no start

    The ECM must be seeing data from the dist cap as IIRC the Caddy computer will not spray the injector until it knows what piston is where.

    So where do you guys think I should start looking my issue. Thanks again. I can't weight to get back into Fiero Caddy V8 goodness. Well here are pics of the old car, new car and combination. The the photos of the completed black and white fastback is designers idea of what this will look like when done.

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    cadillac_al is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    I always marvel at 4.9 Fiero's; very cool. Ignition modules can die anytime anywhere without warning. I would at least check for spark first.

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    some of the parts places can test a module

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    I wasn't aware of a 4.9 in a Fiero. I was at a Fiero club get-together some years back, at Indy, and guys had all types of engines in those. One had a big-block Chevy. Another had a 3.4 OHC Chevy V6, and another had Quad 4, and some Chevy small-blocks. The one I liked had a Buick 3.8 supercharged engine from a Park Avenue Ultra, drive-line and all. Interesting swaps going on in these cars.

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    I love 4.9 Fieros. Not so much the fiero itself, but the community over there is pretty much the bread and butter of the 4.9 modders. Without them most 4.9 mods wouldn't be known or even exist.

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    Capt Fiero's Avatar
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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    Well Crap and more Crap. Looks like I am going to be leaving the Cadero alone for a bit. I spent most of yesterday in the hospital, and most of today asleep. 16hrs before I even woke up.

    About a month ago, I partially dislocated my knee. Bad enough to stretch and strain some ligaments. Wednesday at 5am, while navigating my room without lights to keep from waking the wife up, I very literally tripped over our dog. (Hes an all Black 110lb German Shepard / Black Lab) In my surprise, not trying to step on him, I quickly lifted up my good leg, and jumping back on my bad knee, twisting it into a pretzel. Wife now awake hearing me screaming in pain, off to the Hospital I go. Long story short, I am bed ridden until middle of Oct, then surgery, then another few weeks before I am allowed to do anything.

    After a week, I am going to see if there is any way I can hobble outside enough to get into the cabin of the car, and with a helper go through the long process of testing every wire in the ECM to make sure it goes where it is suppose to.

    If I had a spare module and other parts I would toss them in just "because" for testing, but I don't, and frankly I am hesitant to pay the several hundred for parts, when the car ran perfect the day it was parked. The big change was when I removed the entire harness from the car and moved everything to the other car. Then cutting and shortening all the wiring so it looked "better" This was suppose to be the "final touch-ups" and perfection of my swap, so it would be as reliable as the Caddy it came out of. The kind of car that looks good, feels good and you can drive it every day, always knowing that you hit the key and it WILL start.

    Its too bad the module is not the same as the 2.8 MPFI Fiero V6, I have a bin full of those along with all the other assorted Fiero sensors, plugs and parts.


    Again, Thank You all for info and support on this project. Someone said it was the Fiero guys modding the Engines that let you know the tweaks that can be done. Well if it wasn't for you guys showing us the basics and keeping the 4.9's alive, we wouldn't have anything to mod.

    Side note though, if we can find a way to take the FWD G6 6spd trans and put it into a Mid Engine Fiero, has anyone tried to take the G6 6spd and put it into a FWD Caddy? Our biggest issue is converting it from a FWD application to a mid engine application (all the cables come from the wrong direction)

    The tranny has proven to be darn near bullet proof, and the 1st gear is so damn low geared, your Caddys would have LOTS of Snap coming off the line. You might want to move to a 235 or 245 tire just to keep any traction, however would be really cool to have a stick shift on the floor.

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    Have you succeeded in bolting them together?

    Are there any electronic controls on the thing?

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    Quote Originally Posted by ehall View Post
    Have you succeeded in bolting them together?

    Are there any electronic controls on the thing?
    I am sorry but I don't understand the question?

    If you are referring to the G6 6spd, there are dozens of Fiero's running the G6 6spd and at least of them I know for sure is running the 6spd on a 4.9 in a Fiero. www.v8archie.com sells and does the conversions for people.

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    I am just kinda going through and updating threads on the build, the first link is to the Video of the car actually cruising around, the new configuration is working awesome. I still had the 1st gen GT nose on it during the driving tests, the car is now having that nose torn off and the new nose is going on, we decided to go a bit more aggressive with the lower lip to give it a more exotic supercar look to it. After all I am building this car to be 150mph stable. I know its asking a lot for the 4.9 to pull this off, however hopefully with good gearing and the unending torque it should work out great.

    I am sure all you 4.9 guys will love the new exhaust sound. It would be like having your exhaust exit just "forward" of your front wheels. I dumped it through a bottle muffler hooked to the Y-Pipe and straight out the side of the car.

    http://captfiero.com/videos/mycar/49...flashlarge.flv

    Well here are some of the install pics for the new nose, it just needs final shaping, sanding, primer then paint.














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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    That's gonna look really great when its all painted up. Kinda funny having a cowl on a mid engine car :P

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    Quote Originally Posted by V-Eight View Post
    That's gonna look really great when its all painted up. Kinda funny having a cowl on a mid engine car :P
    Ya know, it does look odd, but that was the only way I could get the hot air off of radiator quick enough at high speeds to keep the entire thing cool and on the ground. Without the vent, there is too much air pressure built up under the radiator compartment and causes the front end to get light. LOL, side benefit, the hot air constantly hitting the windshield keeps it clear of ice and rain sheets off much better.

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    I love that car; thanks for sharing.

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Fiero View Post
    Ya know, it does look odd, but that was the only way I could get the hot air off of radiator quick enough at high speeds to keep the entire thing cool and on the ground. Without the vent, there is too much air pressure built up under the radiator compartment and causes the front end to get light. LOL, side benefit, the hot air constantly hitting the windshield keeps it clear of ice and rain sheets off much better.
    No it looks sweet, and most people won't know any different.

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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    Cowls are supposed to vent warm air at slow speed and pull cold air at high speed. Some high-speed air against the windshield will divert downwards and get pushed through the cowl, so it acts like an intake at higher speeds instead of an exhaust. Your setup might be different enough to change this though. You can test your airflow by taping strips of paper against the cowl and see which way they move at different speeds

    Probably ought to fix your brake lights first though

    Sounds great

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    Capt Fiero's Avatar
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    Re: Da Capts Back with his 4.9 Fiero lots of updates

    Quote Originally Posted by ehall View Post
    Cowls are supposed to vent warm air at slow speed and pull cold air at high speed. Some high-speed air against the windshield will divert down-wards and get pushed through the cowl, so it acts like an intake at higher speeds instead of an exhaust. Your setup might be different enough to change this though. You can test your airflow by taping strips of paper against the cowl and see which way they move at different speeds

    Probably ought to fix your brake lights first though

    Sounds great

    Ya the way my car is setup is that the air is ducted through the nose into the radiator compartment and then flows up and out the cowl at speed. With any luck the large flat area under the nose will smooth out the remaining air and it will just pass cleanly under the car to reduce drag. The raised rear wing break up any flat spots behind the car so it won't have a tendency to create low pressure zones behind the car. I am not one of those people dumb enough to believe I get any down force at all from the rear wing, its strictly there to reduce aerodynamic drag and let the 4.9 push that car as fast as it can.

    As for the brake lights they are already fixed, I fixed those before the car got its first real cruise down the highway. I didn't push it really hard on its 1st trip out, but the car zipped up to 100mph without any effort at all, I honestly was shocked when I looked down at the speedo and realized how fast I was going. The car has not been to the alignment shop yet and did get a bit squirly in the rain on the return drive home later that night, so I know there is more work to be done. Having 4 wheel independent suspension unfortunately means you can have all 4 wheels pointing in 4 diffrent directions.


    You mentioned taping paper to check airflow, I do plan to do exactly that, behind both cowls and behind and above the wing. Just to see what is moving where. As an added just for fun bonus, I have a few friends in cars that are equally quick, (383 stroker powered 74 Corvette is one of them) That will have video cameras on my car to check things as I go. On a side note, one of buddies is building a 421ci SBC Twin Turbo motor with the goal of 1500hp, then dropping that into a highly modified Fiero for street use. I personally can't wait to take a spin in it.

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