4.9 aeromotive afpr won't fit!! Help Mr. Illumna

**cadchris** · 08-05-09 12:50 AM

Hi everyone.

I've read just about every 4.9 thread months ago since I joined. After 9 months of researching injectors,........and l'll post my findings soon of who to buy from and what injectors we should all be useing........., I have decided to finally replace them along with an LT1 Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator. Somewhere in the forum, I think I remember seeing a member called "ILLUMNA" who stated he used the same regulator with possilble modifications to make it fit but I can't find that thread.

Anyone know which thread I'm talking about???????

Since I screwed up my back, I have a freind helping me and he tried to put this LT1 AEROMOTIVE Regulator on my 1991 Eldorado and the top 1/2" of the regulator body hits the #5 rail in the intake manifold!! The fuel rail is raised 2/8" and won't bolt down!!!!!!!! I can't believe it!

I researched the hell out of this and now this unexpected problem!

Is the 1991 Eldo manifold casted slightly different?

Has anyone else other than this guy, "ILLUMNA", ever put one of these on a 4.9?
Here is a post that will take you too ILLUMAN'S car page that mentions this part.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/569881

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...stionable.html

Does anyone know how to contact ILLUMNA? He was a regular on the forum and has the "Sticky TURBO THREAD" listed.

There's so much info there regarding his Turbo setup, but I'm sure he didn't mention the AFPR and how to modify it if it doesn't clear the intake runner.

Calling all the old experts.

Somebody PLEASE Help A.S.A.P.

The cars got to go back together like mucho A.S.A.P.

Regards,

chris

**Sevillian273** · 08-05-09 07:36 AM

Heh, I remember that thread... he had listed "underdrive Idler pulleys" on his CD page as one of his mods. Of course, idler pulleys dont DRIVE anything so I assumed he was full of it. Can you blame me? lol.... Anyway upon closer inspection, you can see the Aeromotive FPR installed under his fuel rail. Here is the thread you may be looking for:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...x-engines.html

He says it didnt make much difference AND it required slight modification but no details on that... I hope this thread doesnt become another 4.x performance 'debate'

But it makes sense.... if you cant add more air AFTER the TB, you cant expect more fuel to benefit you. Yeah you can make a less restrictive intake but the throttle blades will always allow the same amount of air into the engine. (except at WOT I suppose....) On top of that, the engine control system will compensate to the extent of its abilities for the 'extra' fuel. Personally, I dont think that mod is worth the $$ nor the trouble without major changes to the heads, cam, and upper intake.

**cadchris** · 08-05-09 12:01 PM

WOW! HOW DID YOU FIND THAT! Thanks SEVILLIAN273! You must have been up all night or had that thread stored!

Well, you're right, ILLUMNA and NODIH and others, did infact not give the modifications to make the Aeromotive Adj. Fuel Pres. fit. I wonder if they had the same problem clearing #5 Intake Runner? I still can't believe a 91 Eldo could have a different intake!

They did confirm my theroy with all factory fuel trims. GM runs rich programs at WOT to avoid detonation since the 4.9's don't have a Knock Sensor and the risk of an owner using low octane. My goal is actually lower the fuel pressure as I'm utilizing the new BOSCH III 19lb Injectors. I'll tune it with a WIDEBAND O2 Sensor. Just to note, this company modify's these injectors seats and are the same exact installed height as the factory MULTEC's. Everyone else out there is selling that style which is 1/4" shorter!!!! I will do a write up on the company after everything is complete. SO IF ANYONE IS CONSIDERING BUYING INJECTORS TO REPLACE THE FACTORY ONES..........DON'T DO IT YET UNTIL YOU READ MY THREAD ON UPDATED INJECTORS which has lots of videos of injectors on a flow bench!!!!! I'm very excited about these things as it took me 9 months of research and I accidently found this company!

Anyway, I'm going to try and test fit the rail and spin the AFPR from the fatory 11o'clock postion to around 1o'clock or 2o'clock position.......hopefully, there's nothing in the way, then get a hydraulic shop to make me a Aeroquip braided return line and do away with the factory return line. I may have to fabricate a new bracket for the Presure Regulator and spin the regulator houseing so the vac. port is directed at the Throttle Body Vac. Port.

Thanks again,

chris

**Sevillian273** · 08-05-09 12:15 PM

I've had the thread in my bookmarks for some time now.

I've installed the same BOSCH III injectors as you except I didnt buy the 'modified' ones. I was gonna do a picture write-up myself but my camera batteries died and I was pressed to get it done. The regular III's worked just fine and many forum members have used them. The only issue with them is that they dont seat as far into the rail as the multecs. (i dont think its a full quarter inch... maybe 3/16 if that) They work fine as-as and are 100% leak free. I couldnt justify spending the extra money on his injectors especially since he doesnt clarify exactly WHAT he does to them to change the height. I think he just wanted an edge on the competition.

I'm sure GM doesnt use a different intake for the eldorado... Illumina did his FPR mod on a Seville which is essentially the same car from the front seats forward.

Let us know how the FPR and wide band tuning works out for you. Also, I'd love to see a close up of those 'modified' BOSCH III's if you get a chance.

btw, where are you in FL?

**cadchris** · 08-05-09 11:03 PM

Yeah Seville273. I feel your doubt. Especially here in Florida where everyone's a corupt creep. I've verified this guy backwards and forwards through my investigative techniques and backgound checks out. He's for real and has a very long history in the Wholesale Automotive Trade and has an outstanding reputation in the industry. I'm surprised that people here or on the Fiero Forums don't know of him. But he's definitly out in the High Performance Industry. I'll do a thread/report on my findings soon.

As for the injectors; they have a pressed on conical tapered ring which I guess helps maintain a conical spray pattern since the atomization is so fine. But this is a guess of the difference from his to the others out there. Did your's have this phenolic/plastic ring pressed on to the injector bottom? I think he even states there are some others doing the same mod to the Gen. III's. This ring also acts as a retainer for a 2nd o-ring....... Come to think about it.............I'm going to examine them again. I'm sure they had a 2nd lower o-ring........... I've seen so many injectors, I can't remember. But I have confirmed they are the same height as a MULTEC. The Accel Lucus Injectors that I bought from Summit a while ago, are 1/4" shorter. I don't have any other Gen III's to compare the height to, but I have sufficient proof that I'll post that his are definitely longer that the others. I'll also ask him how he lenghthens his Gen III's.... he's very open and will probably tell me or anyone....... But I have to tell everyone, after my indepth research on a lot of Injector Companies out there, I'll be knocking many for their lack of simple customer service, indepth technical service and knowledge ect. including their; "just sell you what I have" attitude. I've asked many engineering questions and injector dynamics and they couldn't answer which stopped them from their B.S. sales pitches! As I said, I'll post some mindblowing inquieries/problems that this guy was able to publicly solve. Some stuff I'll post is bordering, "Space Shuttle Injector Related Problems"!!!!!!!!........LOL....... but as far as I've seen, he solves anything thrown at him.

I hate to keep anyone on the edge, I just want to get this damn Aeromotive AFPR installed somehow and then make sure I evaluate these injectors before doing a write up.

Anyway, I went to 2 Hydraulic Shops today to try and figure out what to do. It really looks like the only solution is to mount the Aeromotive AFPR 180 degrees from the original Factory FPR position, ( this puts the fuel return port facing the Throttly body and the AFPR now fits between the intake runner #5 and #?), then get an Aeroquip 90 degree elbo for the return and run a braided line from the AFPR return to the top of the return hard linel; cut it off 2" from the OEM flare fitting and then they would braze on another fitting so as to retain part of the original fuel rail to the OEM upper connection that connects by the hard line return/feed fittings. I hope everyone can follow that because I lost myself half way through!!!!!!! Then I'll have to make a new mounting bracket out of aluminum angle stock to make a bracket as the OEM mounting screw for the AFPR is now on the other side. The AFPR also need to be taken appart to put the Vacume fitting in a better position towards the port on the Throtle Body. I still can't find a 1/16 NPT fitting in a 90degree angle anywhere. I tried the Hydraulic Shops, and even Grainger. Any thoughts?

I just can't believe Mr. Illumna had to do all of that to get the Aeromotive AFPR to fit! Unless he mounted it the same way as the factory and bent the hell out of the fuel rail, (maybe bolting the rail down partially and pulling back on the upper and lower rails above the FPR towards the Drivers Side Wheel) At this point, I don't feel comfortable doing it as maybe the original manufacture brazes could fracture. I just don't know how he did it. I wish someone on this forum or the moderator/administrator could contact him by e-mail to find out!

Also Sevillian273........I'm down here in Pompano Beach/Ft. Lauderdale.

Regards,

chris

**illumina** · 08-07-09 01:19 PM

Chris, I PM'ed you.

**cadchris** · 08-10-09 12:12 PM

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to post Illumna's P.M. expaining the mod. to do on the AFPR as I'm still having problems.

See P.M. and my reply to him.

FROM ILLUMNA:

Hmmm...

Well, you'll need to go to the auto store and buy some new hard line; don't worry, it's flexible enough to fit around. You'll also need two elbow fittings that will be a direct fit; these also come in reducer type form so you don't have to run a too large hard vacuum line. Once you get those parts, it shouldn't be a problem to figure out how to twist them the right way - DO NOT restict the flow or change the size on the vacuum fitting on the FPR; I'm sure it's that size for a reason, so you'll have to make sure to get proper sizes.

As for the mounting of the FPR, you need to take a hacksaw and take off the lip of the mounting bracket that the FPR is partially connected to. Nothing will be ruined, you just need to cut to fit - it's really quite simple.

Take care, and let me know what's up! Mike

P.S. The "under drive pulleys" mentioned are not a performance mod at all. It was simply what the junk yard had that day to replace the original one that broke.[/QUOTE]

FROM CADCHRIS:

[COLOR="Blue"]
Hi Mike/Illumna, I'm so disgusted right now. Everything had to go back together as a result of an emergency. I appoligize to Seville273 for not getting the pics comparing the BoschIII's to the original Multecs and I just remembered, I was in such a hurry, that I didn't get to look down the injector ports with my Borescope to re-inspect the rest of the back of the valves so hopefully, there isn't any carbon from when I had a few Multecs replaced last year. The new Bosch III's did get installed and the engine is extremely responsive ect.ect.ect......

But, I just can't imagine why your AFPR fit with such a simple modification! This damn thing wont fit! The AFPR is just too big if mounted as the original is mounted. I'll have to call Aeromotive to see if they had a designe change! Like I mentioned in my post...... http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...-wont-fit.html

............there is just no way if the Aeromotive LT1 AFPR is mounted in the same direction as the original, the top 1/2" of the body/hat of the AFPR hits the #5 and opposing manifold runner. The only way to get it to physically fit is rotate the whole AFPR 180 deg. so it can fit in a "valley" between the runners and the top with adj screw is facing the distributor. I'll also have to fabricate a new bracket out of angle aluminum stock.

I am the original owner of this car. Is there some possilbility the 91 Eldo has a different casted intake manifold? I just don't know what to think since you had no problems. But if I eventually get back into this, I'll have to have a custom return made to the o.e.m. hard line as I mentioned in the post above.

Thanks again for your valued time.

Regards,

Chris

**Sevillian273** · 08-10-09 12:56 PM

Chris, I think illumina PM'd you cause he didnt want the info public.

No worries about the injector pics, I was just curious. Sorry you had to throw it all back together so quick. I know how that is.... trying to mod your daily driver can be a pain in the ass when you dont have an extra vehicle.

I still think it is HIGHLY unlikely that the eldo's 4.9 has a different intake. There would have to be a very specific reason for GM to go through the trouble of changing the design, cast-mold, part documentation, and manufacturing process for a model that is so similar to mike's seville. His thread has the p/n at the top in case you missed it.

No offence to mike about the pulleys lol... I'm a skeptic by nature

**cadchris** · 08-10-09 11:24 PM

Hi Sevillian273,

OOOOOP's.....sorry to Illumna. I didn't know he was staying off the radar when P.M.ing. New to all the rules and Forum Etiquette.

I was just a little overzealous and trying to be transparant with the other readers on the forum so they can be informed.

I'll try and get the pics from the Rebuilder. He was nice enough to take my call on Sunday as I was concerned about the fitment as they have a 2nd upper o-ring that seats in the chamfer on the intake, but all went well especially with me giving orders to my freind who doesn't know one end of a wrench to another...

......screwed up my back during the big hurricane here in Florida a few years ago.

You said Illumna has the P/N for the manifold at the top of his thread...................where?

Ouch! I still can't find it!

I sure hope Illumna will post a reply/pictures or follow up to the install for this damn AFPR

I'll be posting some more threads soon of my findings and research regarding the Injectors and other Performance Mods.

Regards,

Chris

**Sevillian273** · 08-11-09 09:18 AM

Oops, I meant the top of the 2nd page.....

Originally Posted by illumina

Also, the P/N 13106 Aeromotive is the one that fits our engines. That's the one that I have on there now.

**illumina** · 08-11-09 01:49 PM

Hmmm...

Last I checked, the manifolds are pretty much universal with the 4.9, so clearance will be the same across the board. As for the FPR, can you post a picture of your unit? I need to clear my camera this week anyways, so I will try and post a picture of my setup and show you what I am talking about and compare notes...Which leads me to wonder if Aeromotive changed their design from when I got mine (3-4 years ago) to an updated design.

**illumina** · 08-11-09 01:53 PM

By the way, which P/N did you get?

**cadchris** · 08-12-09 12:22 AM

Hi Illumna/Sevill273,

I'll try and borrow a digital camera.........which is something I should own instead of buying fancy tools like Borescopes that I forget to use!

Can someone give me quickie instructions on posting pics?

Or.............................. see pictures in links below.

I have the Aeromotive AFPR part#13106 which is the same # as Illumna's. Just a quick note on the dimensions:
The total AFPR "BODY" legnth is: 2-3/4" without the return or adj screw.
Also, the top body with Adj. Screw (Black Part) is 1 1/8" in diameter.

It looks like the one depicted in these links:

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tp...action=product

http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/pdf/13106.pdf

HEEEEEY. LOOK AT THIS REGULATOR BY AEROMOTIVE with the same part #13106!!!!! Totally different!

(scroll down that page to see the picture of the Aeromotive AFPR #13106 #13107: Is that the one Illumna has with the skinny body???????????? I wonder if the upper body is about 1/4 -1/2" skinnier which would not make it hit the intake runner.
http://www.performancepartsoutlet.com/lt1/fuel.htm

Anyway, I'll call Aeromotive and bitch for a while

and ask them to send me a C.A.D./Engineering drawings on both and ask them if there was a design change in the #13106.

ILLUMNA PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE THE SKINNY VERSION 13106!

Thanks again Illumna/Sevillian273.

Chris

**Sevillian273** · 08-12-09 12:46 AM

Open a photobucket acct and dump all your pics there, then you can link em to the forum. Im surprised there's such a huge difference in those two having the same p/n... I bet you're not the only customer to complain! I've always wanted to try this mod especially to compliment everything else Ive done... The 4.5 needs all the help it can get not to mention the 4.9! If I could afford the part, I'd join your crusade!! Good luck!

**cadchris** · 08-12-09 01:13 AM

callaway Blue LM1 Pa. 6.jpg

please disregard this photo...........it's just a test to see if i can upload a picture as an attachment from photos in my computer.

As a sidenote, this is a 1996 lt1 c4 vette callaway supernatural lm1 (lemans 1) which is my dream to convert my c4 to.

Calling chip foose! Please overhaul me!

callaway Blue LM1 Pa. 6.jpg