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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, 4.9 performance in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Originally Posted by Night Wolf I have been really thinking about the intake system on the 4.9, I heard it ...
  1. #46
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    Re: 4.9 performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf
    I have been really thinking about the intake system on the 4.9, I heard it is pretty free-flowing, and from the looks, it is... the only thing is, when the air first enters the system, the tube gets really small before the airbox, then at the air box and after that it really opens up.... now there are 2 things I was thinking of:

    1) it is designed to be "restricive" for whatever performance/sound reasons they had

    2) Bernolis (sp) principle... increase in velocity = decrease in pressure, and by having the hose there "pinch" together, it may definitly apply to that.....

    .... I have been thinking about what to do, it would be very easy to get a cold air intake or something, but I really like the look of the factory intake system/airbox with the 4.9 sticker..... now I have been thinking about getting an air box form a junkyard (since I don't want to start hacking my nice one up) and maybe cutting out the bottom, and have the intake air reloacted, or maybe have 2 locations for air to come in..... that just seems really restictive to me, and I think that if it was opened up, it could be made to flow better...... but if more air went into the engine, would the ECM add more fuel, and therefore get more power, or try to adversly compensate for it (thinking something is wrong) and maybe loose power?

    Another thing, being that the 4.9 has the old school Throttle Body setup, in which it is on the top of the intake manifold, like where a carbuator would be, there are alot of possibilites if someone wanted to get createve, hack up the hood a little (which I am not doing) maybe even going extreme and adding a blower (oh man that would be sweet) but that can also aid in doing things with the intake....

    were those 19lb Accel fuel injectors worth the money? big differnce over the stock injectors?

    Also, I am gonna be replacing the plugs/wires once I get her back on the road.... she has 87k miles on her now and the car has AC Delco platnium plugs that are supposed to last 100k miles..... should I get them replaced with AC Platniums, or use NGK or Bosch +4 (which I heard some good things about and quite a bit of bad things) and AFA wires, I want to get nice high performance wires.... or should I go with the regular AC Delco? What about the dist. cap and rotor?

    see, I want to get the best plugs/wires/cap+rotor as I can, since there aren't many performance parts for the engine as it is, so if I have any chance to get something that may improve the performance, even slightly, and I am going to be doing the work already, I want to go with the best.
    in regards to the intake designing i have figured out a very easy way to create a very simple and cool looking cold air intake for our engines. i am currently waiting for some more money to come in so i can buy the parts need for this project, i kind don't know if it's going to work (90% sure it will but) meaning i don't know if i can make it so i can connect all the hose that are on the stock intake, my 4.5 has 3 connections ,4.9 have two. i will keep updating the progress of this project. and nightwolf if you want to know how much it's going to cost i figure that out as well and the total would be about 300 bucks give or take a few bucks.as to how much more flow and hp it will produce, i'm going to guess my 10-12 hp on my design that is, and a super freakin cool sucking sound! remember these engines are very potential.

  2. #47
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    Re: 4.9 performance

    sweet.....let me know, I was thinking something the same, keeping everything stock, but moddin ghte bottom of the airbox so re-route the intake air.... It will definitly be nice to check out.... what makes you say that these engines have alot of potential? (there is pretty much 0 aftermarket for them)

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    I'm with you knightwolf... hack up the stock intake a little bit. hack a couple holes in the bottom, run some dryer hose up to the air dam or grill. betchya i couple do it for like $20. how about you try it first, then post some pics... better yet, hack up your hood and do something cool (imagine a 3" cowl on a lac! that'd be sweet!!), and post pics... lol

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf
    sweet.....let me know, I was thinking something the same, keeping everything stock, but moddin ghte bottom of the airbox so re-route the intake air.... It will definitly be nice to check out.... what makes you say that these engines have alot of potential? (there is pretty much 0 aftermarket for them)
    i mean that these engines have alot of power that wants out and one of the easiest things to do is create more airflow and less backflow of the exhaust, doing this will make the engine breathe alot better,also if someone was really wanting to get more out of the car, lightweight pulleys would be a great project, this would free up some more hp.

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    Ok, My tranny just went historian, i just ordered a jasper reman'd T60E ($1872.00, 3yr/75k warranty).

    Is there some performance pieces-parts, without sacrificing driveability, that i should think about adding while i am at it? The garage said that the jasper should handle anything and be pretty responsive even if i went with a light NOS kit downt he road.

    Any thoughts?

  6. #51
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    Re: 4.9 performance

    Quote Originally Posted by 90devilleguy
    i mean that these engines have alot of power that wants out and one of the easiest things to do is create more airflow and less backflow of the exhaust, doing this will make the engine breathe alot better,also if someone was really wanting to get more out of the car, lightweight pulleys would be a great project, this would free up some more hp.
    i think sport compact car removed the lower half of the airbox on the 00 sentra 2.0 se , and made a gain . they removed the lower half and duct taped the whole assembly in the perpendiclar postion with the hood removed (ram air effect)

    the whole car was later placed under the care of a sawzall , rear clip was removed along with the roof . basicly they wanted to break the car into the 14 sec barrier with spending no money . which they did after shaveing close to 1000 lbs off the car and makeing the car compelty illegal for any kind of use

    we modified the air box in a 95 VW gti by drilling holes in the bottom of the lower airbox , not sure of the performace gains but it sounds like it will suck the front bumper thru the intake when one is really on the throttle , a very deep long burp sound

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    I dunno, I am not going to start hacking up the airbox on my car right now (it is in wayy too nice shape.... plstic isn't fadded or anything) maybe I can find one at a junkyard....

    Yeah, about the engines.... just how much power would beter airflow do? I am going to be getting either a Flow Master, or Edlebrock muffler... but leaving the stock cat and 2.5" piping... is the 2.5" piping restricive? I mean, while it is a V8... in the world of V8's it is a small one....

    There are shift kits for the 4T60E... my father just had the 4T65E in his '99GTP completly rebuilt and beefed up ($1,100)

    Stonage... yeah, that was like a huge joke, I have the link saved somewhere... I tired to find it before, but I coudln't......

    .... I was thinking like cuttin gthe bottom of the air box, to add a dryer hose as LacSeville said.... then just routing it somwhere behind the grille or another area.... gotta be careful about water/rain, but it will go into the stock airbox, which will then go through my K&N air filter and into the engine.... I am trying to think where I should route it, and where to come out with...... if this was done... is it ok to have 2 hoses going into the air box? will it damage anything? I'll have to check it out more...

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    nobody makes lightweight pullys for the enigne... there is nothing made... you would think that SOMEBODY would make something.... the 4.9 swap is becoming pretty popular in Fieros.....

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    Re: 4.9 performance


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    Re: 4.9 performance

    dear god... what a waste. oh well, if you've got money like that, then go for it. hmmm, i wonder what my roof+rag top weighs? 300lb? that'd shave off a tenth don't you think? just playing, but a drop top 91 seville would be pimp... :coolgleam

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    rather, no top seville

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    I've been hunting a 4.5L Caddy V-8 for a Fiero swap. Couple things I've learned along the way:

    First, displacement is NOT everything. The 4.5 and the 4.9 share the same bore size. The 4.9 is just a "stroker". A longer stroke typically increases torque, which is good for the heavy caddys. I don't need 310 ft/lbs of torque in a 2500 lb car, what I need is HP. Sadly, the only way you will get HP out of the 4.x engines is with high rpm. There's a problem with this. The 4.x engines were never intended to be run in the 6000+ range, and do not have adequate airflow in or out.

    The 4.9 is a very good engine for WOT drag racing, but has a higher rod angle, and is not an engine you want to rev to the 7200ish rpm where my fiero 3 speed trans will be shifting (modified for this shift point, they shift about 1000 lower stock).

    I'm talking only about the 4.5L from here on out.

    Getting air out is simple. First, the caddy exhaust manifolds are really worthless. They have to go. You need to buy a set of headers for a small block chevy, and cut them off at the plate that bolts them to the head. Have a machine shop make you a plate, and weld it on. Just bring them the headers and a pair of exhaust gaskets for your engine. From there, just use a pair of high flow aftermarket catcons, a crossover tube betweent the duals, and end it in a pair of 5 inch supertraps. Supertraps have a strange sound for a caddy, but you can't beat them for tunability.

    Second, (little harder to do, but no parts need to be fabricated) 4.9L heads will bolt to a 4.5L engine, and they flow better, both in and out.

    Finally, the caddy intake flows fine, but limits your cam choices. a simple extrude hone will make a world of difference here.

    Cam's? No, of course there are no good aftermarket cams, right? Wrong my friend. Call up Lunati, they will grind whatever you want, and charge you off the rack price.

    For my application, it's easier for me to use standalone systems than to try to make the caddy ECM perform in a car that weighs half as much. I will be tossing the ECM on a shelf, and using an MSD 6AL ignition, and a Holley Pro-jection 670 CFM 2bbl (intake manifold needs to be modified to use this injection).

    My hope is to get 300+HP, and still have at least 200ft/lbs of torque. The 4.9 makes 210HP/310Torque stock.


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    Re: 4.9 performance

    Nice to know about Lunati, I'll give them a call for my swap project. :coolgleam What are you doing for valvesprings and pushrods ?

    Unfortunately on the header thing, I don't know of too many headers for a small block Chevy in a FWD GM..... but that's good info just the same.

    Thanks.

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    4.5= 180hp 245ft lbs of tourqe
    4.9= 200hp 275ft lbs of tourqe

    good luck getting any of the Cad 4.x engines into the 6000-7000+ RPM range... it isn't a matter of airflow, they are not made for that RPM, and either by, by the time the [4.9] hits it's 5250 redline, it is already loosing power.....

    .... stock Fiero + stock 4.9 + any tranny that'll hold up to the power = instant low 13 second Fiero..... you can either use the 3spd auto from the Fiero, the 4T60E from the Cad, or the 4 or 5 speed manual (my choice).... results are similar to the s/c 3800....

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    Re: 4.9 performance

    the "motor" does determine how it revs. cams, heads, delivery system, intake, exhausts, valvetrain, etc. determines how a motor revs. he said he was going to put a new cam in, work the heads, headers and exhaust, new fuel system. if you are i don't think 6700-7000 rms is unrealistic with this much work and money invested. you might want to start looking for valvetrain though. don't know about the stock springs with a high lift cam. If you are going to make this a revver, then a 75-100 horse shot a funny gas about the top of 2nd gear would really make things interesting...

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