I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion - Page 5
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HT4100 4.1, 4.5, 4.9 Discussion, I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I closed up the sides of the water ports today. First step was using a wire brush attachment on the ...
  1. #61
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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    I closed up the sides of the water ports today. First step was using a wire brush attachment on the Dremel to clean off the dried coolant, then measure and mark the new edge. Then I used blue painters tape along the edge to form pockets, and then gooped in enough JB Weld to fill the pocket. After about 5-6 hours it was firm to the touch, and I pulled away the tape.





    After it fully sets up overnight I will put the gasket on it and see how close I got. I went over the line a little bit (you can see the marker in the 2nd pic, it's the black shadow spot right past the seam), so I may use the sanding disc to form a lip, or I may leave it alone. Pretty happy with it so far though.
    Sevillian273 and Sevillian273 like this.

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    Here's what I ended up with after marking the gasket and shaping with the Dremel.



    Pretty simple in the end, time consuming mostly

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    I mentioned earlier that I had broken the screws for the butterfly valve plates on the 4.5 TBI throttle body. Based on what I have read in some of the SBC throttle body discussions this is "normal" since the screws are peened after install to keep them from walking loose, and I needed to cut the back of them beforehand. Something to keep in mind. Anyways the garage owner was able to get 3 of the screws by pulling them out from behind, and a clock repair place got the 4th screw by drilling it out. After that I painted the throttle body shaft, and have ordered some new 2.5mm screws. The shaft is loose in the throttle body, so I have also ordered some 3/8 OD 5/16 ID brass bearing sleeves to use as bushings/seals.

    After all that I looked at the 4.1 throttle body today and noticed that it has an additional pole on the main armature--3 poles on the 4.1, vs 2 poles on the 4.5. Based on pictures I have found online, it looks like 2 of the cables are stacked on a single pole in the 4.5 setup.

    Here's a pic showing the 4.1 (top) and the 4.5 (bottom) and it looks like the 4.5 cables are stacked onto the single main pole





    Can somebody confirm or better yet post a close-up picture of the cable hookups? I will need to adapt or pull the shaft out of the 4.1 and I would much rather do the former!

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    Here's some reference pics I took before my first injector swap:

    *Edited for FAIL.*

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    Thanks for the pics but that's the PFI throttle body which is quite a bit different. Here's a pic of the 4.5 TBI setup



    The large main arm has the throttle linkage and cruise control cables stacked somehow. I think the cruise cable is drilled and on the large part of the main shaft, but I don't know for sure. Here's another installed pic



    I think I will just drill the cruise cable and put it on the main shaft

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    DOh I forgot you were staying with TBI.

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    The hardware from McMaster showed up in today's mail (overnight!) so I reassembled. There is very little play in the shaft when it's fully together so I think I will run it like this for a little while and keep the bushings for later if they are needed.



    Tapered and polished inlets, replaced o-rings regulator and gaskets, new 305 fuel injectors, and new TPS and ISC

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    The front cover came in last week and we did all the gaskets and seals today. Here's a pic of the engine put back together and with the new parts installed. I need to move the valve covers off my 4.1 before we can start putting the accessories back on.



    One of the shop workers is going to be out of town for a bit so we may not get to the swap until late next week or even the week after. Bummed but I don't have control over it.

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    Can one of you with a 4.9 FSM look up the torque specs on the intake bolts? There are 16 of them in 3 different sizes, and you are supposed to tighten the 4 center ones first, then do the others, then retourque, etc. What is the final torque spec? Alldata for the 4.9 showed a number that way way lower than the FSM showed for the 4.1 so I used the 4.1 numbers but now I'm curious

    Thanks

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    i might be wrong but im looking at page 6a-13
    the sizes are 30mm 40 mm 55mm
    tighten bolts in this order

    from left to right top of the manifold and bottom the numbers in() are the bolt size in MM
    this is the orientation from the from of the engine
    15(55) 9(40) 5(30) 3(55) 1(55) 7(30) 11(40) 12(55)
    16(40) 14(40) 8(30) 2(55) 4(55) 6(30) 10(40) 13(40 w stud head)


    bolt in order 1 2 3 4 in sequence 12.0 N m 8ft 12 lbs
    tighten bolts 5-16 in sequence tot 12.0 N m 8ft 12 lbs
    retighten ll bolts in sequence to 16.0 N m 12ft lbs
    repeat step 3 until torque level is maintained


    hope this helps

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    That's what alldata said. The 4.1 torque specs were 22 ft lbs and that's what I used. I wonder if I should loosen them up and do it over.

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    The torque specs are dependent on the washers that you are using. I believe there were two styles, one with spring (belleville) washers, and one with regular flat washers. If you overtorque the belleville washers, you will damage them, so be sure to use the right spec.

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    Yeah I wondered about that. The ones on the 4.9 had Belleville washers so I will go change it tomorrow

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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    FYI the 4.9 intake bolts are no longer available except from VPI

  15. #75
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    Re: I'm going to try the 4.1->4.9 conversion

    Does the 4.9 layout typically have a thermac valve?

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