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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Sal v. Cadillac? in General Discussion; Originally Posted by Blackout I think you answered your own question basically. If the whole world minus the US doesn't ...
  1. #76
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    I think you answered your own question basically. If the whole world minus the US doesn't like US cars then who is the biased one? Your from america so you will be biased towards american cars. After being in a new LS and CLS as well as a XLR-V for 100k for the XLR-V I just don't see what you're paying for when cars that cost less have much nicer/better quality used for their interiors. The LS has the feel of a much more expensive look to it (interior wise) then that of any of the new Cadillac's. My dad's buddy own's a Cadillac dealership and I swing by there every once in awhile and I've been in every Cadillac model and nothing has matched the interior to that of the higher up models to that of the BMW's, Lexus, or Benz. If you like the Cadillac's interiors then hey more power to ya but Cadillac still has a little ways to go to catch up to the rest of the pack.
    How did I answer my own question here?
    There is a lot of bias around the world against anything American (not just cars) and it doesn't matter if the American product is better or not.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    I don't worry about American auto exports at all. We'll never be a major player in the European or Asian markets. We might be able to get something rolling in South America, but it's too late everywhere else.

    We're the largest automotive consumer in the world, yet our own people prefer imports to what we make right here at home. Somebody just screwed up, plain and simple. When you're in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. I think the GM/Delphi settlement was a step in that direction.

    In the old days, Chevy/Pontiac were the low-end GM vehicles. People graduated to Buick/Olds when they could afford something nicer because they trusted GM quality. Eventually some would aspire to Cadillac, but not everyone.

    Today, each GM brand seems to be standing alone, Cadillac in particular. Cadillac never needed an entry-level vehicle like the CTS. GM doesn't operate as a team anymore. There's still some sharing of models and technology, but nothing like the old days.

    I'm sure in some ways that's a good thing, but they sold an awful lot of those Monte Carlo/Regal/Grand Prix/Cutlasses in the 70's and 80's.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by P-Funk View Post
    How did I answer my own question here?
    There is a lot of bias around the world against anything American (not just cars) and it doesn't matter if the American product is better or not.
    And the same is for americans. You said that you couldn't see as to how we can say that the Lexus' interior is better then a Cadillac's. Well the reasoning behind that is you are biased towards american cars. Because like I have said after being in both top models from Lexus and Cadillac there is no comparison interior wise and there is zero reason why a XLR-V is 100k when the LS is superior in damn near every way except for performance aspects and its damn near half the cost as a XLR-V. Cadillac had a hard enough time selling the XLR for $70k so with brilliant GM/Cadillac thinking we will shove in a hi-po engine and bump the price up another 30k and we'll have a winner! And GM wonders why they are in such trouble

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    And the same is for americans. You said that you couldn't see as to how we can say that the Lexus' interior is better then a Cadillac's. Well the reasoning behind that is you are biased towards american cars. Because like I have said after being in both top models from Lexus and Cadillac there is no comparison interior wise and there is zero reason why a XLR-V is 100k when the LS is superior in damn near every way except for performance aspects and its damn near half the cost as a XLR-V. Cadillac had a hard enough time selling the XLR for $70k so with brilliant GM/Cadillac thinking we will shove in a hi-po engine and bump the price up another 30k and we'll have a winner! And GM wonders why they are in such trouble
    The XLRV is 100k because of the UAW,trade deficits,ext,ext,ext.GM is not in any more trouble than the US in general.GM has not been listening(agreed)?However,making hi-po cars opened up a few new markets.I need to get back to my non union job,i'll continue this rant later.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    The XLR-V is 100k because its a freaking awesome deal compared to the SL600.

    GM's best years were when divisions did -not- operate as a team, and competed internally and created some brilliant products with great designs.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    And the same is for americans. You said that you couldn't see as to how we can say that the Lexus' interior is better then a Cadillac's. Well the reasoning behind that is you are biased towards american cars. Because like I have said after being in both top models from Lexus and Cadillac there is no comparison interior wise and there is zero reason why a XLR-V is 100k when the LS is superior in damn near every way except for performance aspects and its damn near half the cost as a XLR-V. Cadillac had a hard enough time selling the XLR for $70k so with brilliant GM/Cadillac thinking we will shove in a hi-po engine and bump the price up another 30k and we'll have a winner! And GM wonders why they are in such trouble
    Why are you comparing an XLR-V to an LS Lexus?. Last time I checked they were two totally different cars targeting two totally different audiences. Far as the XLR-V goes doesn't the base Vette convertible offer similar performance numbers for a much cheaper price?. I'd venture to say based on Northstars of the past that the Vette would be more reliable as well.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Heh, massive differences between the XLR and Corvette, and its not just the engine.

    On a short list, consider the luxury, style, hardtop, comfort, quiet, smoothness, ride, steering, service, warranty, suspension, refinement... Cadillac buyers are looking for luxury-sport. There's nothing remotely luxurious about the tupperware Corvette.

    Sure, theyre both on the same platform, and the similarities mostly end there.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destroyer View Post
    Why are you comparing an XLR-V to an LS Lexus?. Last time I checked they were two totally different cars targeting two totally different audiences. Far as the XLR-V goes doesn't the base Vette convertible offer similar performance numbers for a much cheaper price?. I'd venture to say based on Northstars of the past that the Vette would be more reliable as well.
    I'm just using Cadillac's top dog compared to Lexus' top dog and saying that with the XLR-V costing $100k what do you get? With the LS costing damn near half as much what do you get? You get a shit load more options and gadgets as well as much nicer interior. Yeah you don't get the performance but with the XLR-V what else do you get compared to the XLR? You get a hi-po engine. So thats worth $30k? And I agree with you about the blown Northstar's. Never been a fan of them and never will be a fan of them. Like you said I'll take a Vette Vert' and have much more fun since I atleast can get a stick shift with it

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    The XLR-V is 100k because its a freaking awesome deal compared to the SL600.
    Jesda I usually agree with you but you are sooooo wrong with that statement. SL600 is a much nicer package with a lot more hp and tq and with it's twin turbo V12. The XLR-V is the poor man's version of the SL600. If you think otherwise your only kidding yourself

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    Jesda I usually agree with you but you are sooooo wrong with that statement. SL600 is a much nicer package with a lot more hp and tq and with it's twin turbo V12. The XLR-V is the poor man's version of the SL600. If you think otherwise your only kidding yourself
    The twin-turbo AMG version you're referring to is $186k.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    Jesda I usually agree with you but you are sooooo wrong with that statement. SL600 is a much nicer package with a lot more hp and tq and with it's twin turbo V12. The XLR-V is the poor man's version of the SL600. If you think otherwise your only kidding yourself
    I don't know if the sl600 is 35,000 dollars nicer.Are my numbers close?The XLR V is a awesome looking car and nice performer.The Mercs are all awesome cars no doubt.I really don't care if Honda,Toyota,nissan,ext,ext make a luxury line of cars.Their all gutless,small and typical and still just another import.Cadillac's entrys into the luxury sport market are spot on in my opinion.The V series is ground breaking.As soon as Cadillac wins over more market share from the imports,things will be different.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    The twin-turbo AMG version you're referring to is $186k.
    I'm talking about the SL600. The AMG version is even more badass. Here's a link to Benz's spec page on the SL600. Mercedes-Benz USA, Model Specifications for the 2007 SL600 Roadster

    Here's a write up about the SL600 from Forbes and they talk about Cadillac a decent amount in the article as well. BTW the article is from 2004 so the hp and tq numbers they give are off for the SL600. But I love the first sentence from the article....
    If General Motors' vice chairman of product development, Robert A. "Bob"Lutz , wants Cadillac to sell cars for more than $100,000, perhaps he should study the Mercedes-Benz SL600.
    2005 Mercedes-Benz SL-Class Reviews - ForbesAutos.com

    EDIT: After reading the article this is very nice to read especially if you want a nice convertible sports car.
    What it gives you in place of machismo is refinement. For instance, the roof folds or unfolds in only 16 seconds

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Once optioned to match the XLR-V, it exceeds $140k. You then have to ask yourself whether the SL600 is worth a 40% premium. I suppose thats debateable.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    Once optioned to match the XLR-V, it exceeds $140k. You then have to ask yourself whether the SL600 is worth a 40% premium. I suppose thats debateable.
    The only option on the SL600 that the XLR-V has is the run flat tires. Other then that the SL600 has options that the XLR-V wish it could have as well as any other car on earth wishes it could have *COUGH*DISTRONIC*COUGH* as well as voice control, and no i am not saying voice control is something new but the XLR-V doesn't have it as well as the Panorama roof, and steering wheel gearshift paddles. They have 6 different rims to choose from, and those illuminated door sills are hot!

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Indeed, lots of really cool options. But MB charges extra for bluetooth, park assist, and voice recognition, while Cadillac offers them as standard hardware. I guess its all rather irrelevent though, because at $136k you arent going to be as concerned over option prices. It then becomes a question of whether you can or want to shell out a midsize-luxury-sedan-worth of money for the sophistication and heritage of the SL. A lot of people do, but until recently its only competitors were the weaksauce SC430 and the aging Jaguar XK8.

    The XLR/XLR-V, BMW 6/M6, and new Jaguar XK bring the sub-100k luxury roadster segment a little closer to the SL. The price isnt as justifiable as it once was.

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