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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Sal v. Cadillac? in General Discussion; Originally Posted by Blackout fun car to drive doesn't mean it's a performance car. Mag's love driving the Solstice and ...
  1. #61
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    fun car to drive doesn't mean it's a performance car. Mag's love driving the Solstice and Miata but are they performance cars? Hell no. Name me a performance car that has 255 hp and is considered a performance car. There's a difference between a performance car and a "fun" car. The only car that has 255 hp that its sole purpose is to perform would be the Ariel Atom and the Elise
    So it has to be fast in a straight line to be a performance car? Wow, you are spoiled. When I was your age, the only 4 doors that could outaccelerate my SHO were an M5 and 500E. And there were very few coupes that could as well unless you started talking exotic. And that was "only" 220hp. That putrid 255hp 330i is hitting 60 in under 6 seconds. But, hey, there's no performance there. Of course, outhandling a 300hp Mustang GT or 500hp overrated Shelby doesn't account for anything. Yep, not a "performance car"...

  2. #62
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    One of my favorite performance cars is the 110hp 1990 1.6L Mazda Miata. Take it through some mountain or lakeside roads to see the other side of performance.

    I love the gobs of power I get from my Q45, but I admire light sports cars like the Solstice.

  3. #63
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Performance cars over here have to handle as well as have straight line speed. In fact, reviews favour cars with better handling over ones with more power.

    That's fine.

    However, what I hate is that every car must handle to be considered a good car. Not a good performance car, but a good car period.
    For example, as a BMW handles well it is a good car, as a Cadillac doesn't handle as well it's not a good car. But surely the fact that the Cadillac rides better and is more comfortable and quieter makes it a better car than the BMW because, for the purpose it was designed, it does those things better. If I want a large luxury saloon to travel the motorways of the UK at 70mph for a few hundred miles a day, surely the Cadillac is the better choice than the harder sprung, hard seated BMW?
    All car reviews in the UK consider handling to be of utmost performance, even if that's not the purpose of the vehicle.

    If a Cadillac is faster in a straight line, is more comfortable, has more luxuries, is quieter and cheaper but the other car handles better, the other car is considerd better as the Cadillac is bad because it handles like a boat.
    That makes NO sense to me.

  4. #64
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    The thing is, BMWs arent as hard-sprung as people say, not until you get into the roadsters and special M-badged sedans. The handling comes greatly from the light weight, balance, and feedback to the driver. The more you know about the road, the better you can own and control it. My 5-series had plenty of body roll, much more than my Q45 and even the Seville STS, but it felt satisfying anyway because I, the driver, was at the center of the centrifugal forces and was in full control of the situation.

    I, too, enjoy having the ability to cruise in a straight line comfortably. However, a big engine (with proper gearing) contributes greatly to safety, comfort, and economy. Spinning a lower RPMs reduces cabin noise, improves fuel efficiency, and reduces fatigue. Power also allows safe passing.

  5. #65
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    What I like about makers like BMW is that they have a Sport package for just about every model. You can have a softly sprung BMW if you like or a sharp handling one. I think Cadillac is catching up to that idea.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by EDBSO View Post
    I think that we should take a pole.

    HOLD IT!!! there already is a pole of world wide car purchasers.

    How many Cadillacs are sold in Japan, Australia, Europe and North America?

    AND How many BMWs, Lexus and Mercedes are sold in Japan, Australia, Europe and North America?

    The world's driving population has spoken and the answer is . . . Cadillac is the best top selling car in the world NOT!
    You can't use world wide purchasers as a pole for a comparison. There are many factors that affect those numbers. The main thing is their dislike or bias against American things. This applies to other things as well as cars. It doesn't matter if the product is better and cheaper, if it is American, they try to find something wrong with it.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    What is with you guys saying that the interior of the Lexus is better than Cadillac? I don't see it. Is it different? Yes. I guess my preferences just differ. Also, I like my car's seats to fit me. I haven't sat in the newest LS but every other Lexus I've sat in is way too small for me. This goes for Jaguar as well.

    As for MB, I go to the car show every year and check out all of the different cars. I don't see the MB or any other comparable car far exceeding the Cadillac in the interior. Yes, there are areas that they are better but not by the amount that everyone seems to be talking about here. Sure, the Maybach is nicer but then again, you could say that other MBs suck because they don't measure up to the Maybach.

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by P-Funk View Post
    You can't use world wide purchasers as a pole for a comparison. There are many factors that affect those numbers. The main thing is their dislike or bias against American things. This applies to other things as well as cars. It doesn't matter if the product is better and cheaper, if it is American, they try to find something wrong with it.
    What is with you guys saying that the interior of the Lexus is better than Cadillac? I don't see it.
    I think you answered your own question basically. If the whole world minus the US doesn't like US cars then who is the biased one? Your from america so you will be biased towards american cars. After being in a new LS and CLS as well as a XLR-V for 100k for the XLR-V I just don't see what you're paying for when cars that cost less have much nicer/better quality used for their interiors. The LS has the feel of a much more expensive look to it (interior wise) then that of any of the new Cadillac's. My dad's buddy own's a Cadillac dealership and I swing by there every once in awhile and I've been in every Cadillac model and nothing has matched the interior to that of the higher up models to that of the BMW's, Lexus, or Benz. If you like the Cadillac's interiors then hey more power to ya but Cadillac still has a little ways to go to catch up to the rest of the pack.

  9. #69
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    I have never been in a softly sprung BMW.

    But maybe there is a difference between US and European models.
    There certainly is in other brands such as Ford (eg Focus, Contour etc), we normally get firmer springs and damping.

    And yes there can be an anti-American thing in other countries, there certainly is in the UK. Top Gear once said "Next week we'll be reviewing a new Cadillac, I don't know why we're bothering, it'll obviously be c**p".

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Regarding BMW, even the 750Li with the softest suspension available (something about the wheels/tires made a difference) had a harsh ride.

    The first thing I notice when I sit in a luxury car is the leather. I haven't sat in MANY 06 and 07 Cadillacs so I don't remember how much they've improved. But - any 05 and older had cheap-feeling leather. Not "Buick" cheap feeling, but cheap compared to what I've felt in other high-end luxury cars like the Audi A8, BMW 7, Lexus LS and Mercedes S-Class...

    That's just the first thing I notice, though.. The next thing I notice is the wood grain, then the center-stack/console and how it's laid out... I like the suede headliner in the Lexus LS.. The material on the doors is important to me as well.. I like a soft, warm feeling inside a car. Like mid-late 70s Continental Town Cars and Fleetwoods..

    The next thing I look at is the technology/features. What types of cool, interesting things stand out. Like the oscillating vents that can tell which side of the car to stay directed at. That impresses me. Maybe that makes me an %#&%. I can deal with that...
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    I mostly agree on the latest Lexus interiors. They arent designed in a particularly interesting, original, or inviting way (bordering on dull), but the materials and assembly are 100% top notch. In Lexus's early years, they were kind of cheap and dumpy, with the exception of the electroluminescent gauges that distracted drivers from the cold, hard surfaces.

    For cars I'd sit in, the latest Sevilles, any 95+ Jaguar XJ, any Audi, or any 90-96 Q45 (not 97-01) do the job for me. The Town Car is quite plush as well.
    Cars like the 93-96 FWB are just adequate in that regard. Plain and dated but made up for by being very comfortable and tremendously functional.

    I've never cared for BMW interiors. As solidly performing and comfortable cars, the hard plastic and old-fashioned designs never bothered me. Of course, the 760li is something entirely different...

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac View Post
    Like the oscillating vents that can tell which side of the car to stay directed at. That impresses me. Maybe that makes me an %#&%. I can deal with that...
    With regard to the vents, they are actually a bit cooler than you think. the reason they look jerky is not exactly how you explained it before. heres how it goes.

    If you get in the car and it is very hot, the vent will turn directly on you until it senses that the cabin has cooled down enough to start moving again. that you have no doubt seen, the cool thing is, the passenger side vents operates differently depending on if someone is sitting in the passenger seat or not. If someone is in the seat, it will blast right on them in a hot cabin, then oscillate fully. But if nobody is in the seat it will do that half oscillate thing towards you, thats when it looks like it broken, but its not...............its very cool

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    With regard to the vents, they are actually a bit cooler than you think. the reason they look jerky is not exactly how you explained it before. heres how it goes.

    If you get in the car and it is very hot, the vent will turn directly on you until it senses that the cabin has cooled down enough to start moving again. that you have no doubt seen, the cool thing is, the passenger side vents operates differently depending on if someone is sitting in the passenger seat or not. If someone is in the seat, it will blast right on them in a hot cabin, then oscillate fully. But if nobody is in the seat it will do that half oscillate thing towards you, thats when it looks like it broken, but its not...............its very cool
    See? That's exactly the kind of thing I want to see in a Cadillac.. Think about the thought put into the comfort of the passengers of a Lexus. And on the LS460, how it monitors the position of your face - and if it's turned and somebody is stopping short in front of you, the car helps you to avoid a collision.. This stuff impresses me.. But that's just me...
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    I think, that if you leave out all that overly high-tech stuff (at least in standard) for now, the Cadillac will be more available for a broader, younger market (pricewise). Since Cadillac does not have the cheapo models in the range like MB (like A and B series), Cadillac first needs to concentrate on getting a market to sell their cars to and the overall quality for reliability. THEN invest in startrek technology to please the more exclusive market.

    Especially in Europe there hasn't been a decent PR for Cadillac. No need to come up with even more expensive Cadillacs when you can't even sell the other models...

    just my two cents

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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by 70eldo View Post
    I think, that if you leave out all that overly high-tech stuff (at least in standard) for now, the Cadillac will be more available for a broader, younger market (pricewise). Since Cadillac does not have the cheapo models in the range like MB (like A and B series), Cadillac first needs to concentrate on getting a market to sell their cars to and the overall quality for reliability. THEN invest in startrek technology to please the more exclusive market.

    Especially in Europe there hasn't been a decent PR for Cadillac. No need to come up with even more expensive Cadillacs when you can't even sell the other models...

    just my two cents
    That's some pretty good input.. Maybe that's what they're doing...
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    In loving memory of Angelo Anthony Quagliaralillo... Rest in peace..

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