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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Sal v. Cadillac? in General Discussion; Since we're forgetting I ever said anything about the LS430, I've never heard anyone call the S500 (for example) blandly ...
  1. #31
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Since we're forgetting I ever said anything about the LS430, I've never heard anyone call the S500 (for example) blandly adequate. Or a dreary appliance. If we're still on the Lexus, let's please get off of it. When I created this discussion (and the one that made this topic pop up in the first place), I should have never used the Lexus LS as my example along with the Mercedes. I should have just used the Mercedes (even though I feel they're equal vehicles).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    Its not a personal matter. Its a discussion of varying automotive tastes. I'm not offended by your opinion. I'm annoyed by the assertion that something blandly adequate for the masses is equally sufficient for auto enthusiasts.

    The general public can have their dreary appliances. I'm a living, breathing man with two testicles and an appetite for red meat -- I want more than that! I cant settle for what the unwashed masses call "great", as their standards for everything else are so terribly low. Big Macs are big sellers. I prefer Indian and Thai.

    Driving is an activity where the driver -should- be involved and can interface with the vehicle in a full and sensuous manner. I cant imagine having a sedan without a little sport in it, whether it comes in the form of massive torque or on-rail handling. I'm not dead yet, and have no intention of acting like a corpse in my day to day activities.

    Jean Jennings, Editor in Chief of Automobile Magazine, says as a personal mantra, "NO BORING CARS!" This is the doctrine that all auto enthusiasts should live by.

    Sure, Lexus makes a good car, but who the hell cares? Grandma?

    My heart still beats. Passion over perfection, please.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Sleep? Im still operating on Bangkok time.

    I dont consider the LS and S-class to be really comparable, unless we're factoring in the new LS460, which seems like a pretty damn remarkable car. The LS430 is a giant engineering leap over the aging DTS, but it compares more with the E-class. The S-class really is in a league of its own.

    Handling and acceleration in the (V8) S-class is simply outstanding for its heft and dimensions. MB reliability may have slipped (theyve come around noticeably in the last year or so), but engineering is still top notch.

    My point... if you're going to claim Cadillac is lagging behind, Lexus isnt the most effective way of illustrating it.

  3. #33
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    I've heard people compare the LS430 to the E-Class before - but why? The E-Class is a mid-size vehicle where the LS is a full-size, like the S-Class. The LS has better acceleration than the S500 and handles about the same with the Euro suspension (although I know there are higher-performance models available)... So my question is, other than looks, what is it about the S-Class that you feel puts it in a league of it's own? Besides the $100k available high-performance models..
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    The S-class is indeed a bit bigger than the LS, and offers a quieter highway ride (going based on interior decibels at 70mph), many, many more comfort and convenience features, and a multitude of engine options worldwide. In addition, the S-class (I assume throughout this conversation that we're talking about current products, which means we're talking about the W221) has a dressier interior, sharper handling, and a more solid high-speed ride. Steering in the LS430 gets waify during high-speed cruising. Dont forget the little things, like bi-xenon headlights, more accurate cruise control, shades for side doors, etc. Its the details, after all, that you mentioned as an example. [Interestingly, Mazda thought the oscillating vents were a waste and ditched them. They really are useless, but quite cool.]

    Still waiting for a performance version of the LS. The upcoming 460h may be it, but it isn't on the outrageous [in a good way] level of the AMG S65. Believe it or not, a $100k halo model DOES affect the credibility of lesser models. Thats the point, after all, when you're creating a heritage. Look at what the 'V' did for the CTS or the 'RS' for Audi's A4. Toyota/Lexus is more concerned with quantity these days in their "relentless pursuit" of beating GM in global sales.

    All my Lexus bashing may end with the LS460. I sure hope so.

  5. #35
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    holy crap

  6. #36
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Well, this has been an interesting thread. At least I'm reassured that our leader's intentions were honorable and he's not turning to the dark side.

  7. #37
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrockcamaro@mac.c View Post
    Perofmrnce does sell yes.
    But I hope Cadillac don't go down the road of giving every car in their range rock hard seats and firm suspension. I hate BMWs. I've owner them (as company vehicles) and I would never buyt one. Ignoring the main issue, which is the shockingly bad reliability, they are downright uncomfortable. A big luxury saloon should be cosseting, they are not. On an M5 I can understand that, but not on the non performance models. The UK press have a habit of only liking a car that handles and ignore the ride (well, they say it has a slightly over firm ride but it's not uncomfortable. Wake up call: Yes it is uncomfortbale).


    A lot of people are raising Cadillacs reliability. Well, Caddy never sold many over here but from what I know they're not that bad. There's around 500-600 late model Caddy's over here and I have spoken to every single American Car specialist and only 1 has ever had its headgaskets replaced. The electricals are FAR more reliable than BMWs and the engines seem about the same (at worst). I think people on here focus on teh Northstar issues to much. If you had a BMW you'd be in a world of trouble reliability wise. 12 years ago BMW were fine, since then they've gone downhill big time.

    The cars don't handle well at all, the spring rate is far too soft and the steering too lifeless. However, they are FAR more comfortable because of this so I'd say the score was a tie.

    They are far better specced and I think gadget wise they are far more inovative than their German counterparts.
    If you want handling then a manual German saloon is the way to go. If you don't care about handling and want to be transported as comfortably as possible between 2 places, then the Caddy is the way to go.

    As for Lexus, I think they're boring to look at, the interiors are uninspiring and don't look any more upmarket than Caddy (I'd say they look downmarket actually) and they're not a drivers car either. Maybe they're very reliable (I don't know) but that's about it.


    My car needs heritage, style, character and it needs to have been designed to do the taks I want it do do. I think Cadillac fit the bill perfectly. Several of my friends and family HATE american cars. They just do. But they all love my Cadillac.
    hahaha Saloon. You Europeans are a riot. "Open the boot to my saloon now woman!" hahahahaha

  8. #38
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    As for your opinions on BMWs, I wholeheartedly disagree. I've driven a few larger, luxury saloons(love it!) from BMW and they ride very comfortably. And don't get me started on the late-model 7 series with their active swaybars! Yummy!

  9. #39
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    holy crap
    Yeah, I hear ya...
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  10. #40
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    So what's keeping Cadillac from building a DTS (or a Fleetwood, if my Cadillac dream would come true) equal to the S-Class? Intellect? Money? Desire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    The S-class is indeed a bit bigger than the LS, and offers a quieter highway ride (going based on interior decibels at 70mph), many, many more comfort and convenience features, and a multitude of engine options worldwide. In addition, the S-class (I assume throughout this conversation that we're talking about current products, which means we're talking about the W221) has a dressier interior, sharper handling, and a more solid high-speed ride. Steering in the LS430 gets waify during high-speed cruising. Dont forget the little things, like bi-xenon headlights, more accurate cruise control, shades for side doors, etc. Its the details, after all, that you mentioned as an example. [Interestingly, Mazda thought the oscillating vents were a waste and ditched them. They really are useless, but quite cool.]

    Still waiting for a performance version of the LS. The upcoming 460h may be it, but it isn't on the outrageous [in a good way] level of the AMG S65. Believe it or not, a $100k halo model DOES affect the credibility of lesser models. Thats the point, after all, when you're creating a heritage. Look at what the 'V' did for the CTS or the 'RS' for Audi's A4. Toyota/Lexus is more concerned with quantity these days in their "relentless pursuit" of beating GM in global sales.

    All my Lexus bashing may end with the LS460. I sure hope so.
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  11. #41
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by c5 rv View Post
    Well, this has been an interesting thread. At least I'm reassured that our leader's intentions were honorable and he's not turning to the dark side.
    I just like to get people thinking.. Cadillac will always be my favorite brand of automobile...
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  12. #42
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac View Post
    I just like to get people thinking.. Cadillac will always be my favorite brand of automobile...
    but i dont like thinking ....it hurts to much

  13. #43
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    Performance DOES sell. Look at BMW. They have, for years, sold cars with lesser interiors (compared to MB, Lexus) but made up for it with outstanding handling, control, and feedback.
    Performance as in acceleration. The 330Ci is the top of the line model besides the M3 for the 3 series and it has a jaw dropping 225 hp. You were saying that the 550i was a poor choice and thats their top of the line model besides the M5. So what exactly is a good choice if your looking to buy a BMW?

  14. #44
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    Performance as in acceleration. The 330Ci is the top of the line model besides the M3 for the 3 series and it has a jaw dropping 225 hp. You were saying that the 550i was a poor choice and thats their top of the line model besides the M5. So what exactly is a good choice if your looking to buy a BMW?
    Top of the line for a 3 series coupe, which is still running on the lighter, last Gen body style. The new engines running in the new 4 door are up to 255hp.

  15. #45
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    Re: Sal v. Cadillac?

    Quote Originally Posted by rp64ctsv View Post
    Blackout,Cad has done well IMO jumping into the performance scene.My car is a four door 440 rwhp grocery getter that gets all kinds of looks.The ctsv is much more than a vette IMO.Your last sentence is not even close,but close to a racial slur IMO.
    It doesn't take a lot of originality to drop in a high performance engine in a car. When the CTS-V came out there was only one other car that had any chance of performance and that was the 95-96 Fleetwood. And why is that? Both cars had a Vette engine in them and were RWD. The Northstar does have nice performance but is nagged by headgasket issues (atleast the older N*'s) but was mated to a FWD platform *yawn*. Cadillac is on the right track to getting itself back into the luxury car scene main reason being is it has converted back to RWD. But the interiors still leave a lot to be desired if they do want to be back into the competition of other luxury cars in its class. Like I said before its nice a car can go fast and handle well but to the normal joe that isn't what makes a luxury car a luxury car. After being in the new LS and checking out a Maybach those are luxury cars.

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