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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days? in General Discussion; take a look at the figures of hybrids sometime ... there back asswards .....Hybrids in gerneral (outside the Siverado/Sierra) dont ...
  1. #16
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    take a look at the figures of hybrids sometime ...

    there back asswards .....Hybrids in gerneral (outside the Siverado/Sierra) dont get the big incraese in milage on the highway ....

    Once up to highway speed the electric motor isnt utilized (or is used very little) most work is done by the singificantly underpowered gas engine , with electric kicking in when a extra boost is needed ...The hybrids goal in life is city traffic ....its getting 30 city ....hard city ....thats damn good , and slightly beatter then diesel ....Becuse its doing its level best in the city to keep the gas engine off ....impossible to do on the highway

    The main problem i see right now in the operation of the hybrid is 2 things , a lack of a diesel hybrid , and how it operates the electric motor ...

    To do it right youd run the small turbo diesel , then a person would need to find a way to generate enough electrical enegry to use the electric motor at around 1/2 capacity at all times on the highway ,keep the batterys fully chagred and useing the diesel at as low of a capcity as possible ...perhaps even find a way to uncouple the engine from the drivetrain and use it with some sort of multiple cylnder technology , running on 2 of 4 cylanders to generate electricity only (less load ont he engine)....and run the electric at full capacity ....when more power is needed the diesel would couple back into the powertrain and fire off the reminging 2 cylanders and go to full boost....

    or in more laymens terms ....BATTERYS SUCK......find a way to do away with the damn things ....if i wanted to ride around with 200+ pounds of dead weight i would drive a hearse to work every day ....

  2. #17
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    I say spend $500 on a 5-speed Mazda 626 that gets about 30 mpg without having to worry about the cost of replacement parts once warranty is up.

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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    A friend of mine worked on a diesel (VW waterboxer diesel) in a Dodge Intrepid as a hybrid back in the 90's. It was only a 50 hp electric motor and the weak diesel.

    They did 0-60 in 8 seconds. And got pretty good mileage too.

    My thoughts are on a hybrid, take a few pages from the diesel locomotive. Build a narrow rpm diesel, maybe a small CID turbo diesel that runs at a constant rpm, powering a generator, powering an electric motor. No trans is needed, engine runs at perfect VE all the time. The engine would likely only need to run at 1500 rpm or so. No batteries needed except to start the diesel up.

    You can idle down the diesel on decel, and idle, and idle up when you need the power.

    I always wanted to do that to a big Cad....

  4. #19
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    For city's with heavy traffic they do indeed make sense.
    But for any other purpose they don't imho.

    The police over here have a couple on trial.
    I had to laugh when they pulled up next to mine. Even the coppers themselves looked embarassed....
    They couldn't get a cold in that thing, let alone a criminal...

  5. #20
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    Sheridan, Wyoming uses Dodge Neons, and not SRT-4s. If you ever want to rob a bank, head to Sheridan.

  6. #21
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH
    It will always be just like LPG gas powered cars or propane. Just not viable. In my not always so humble opinion anyway.
    See I believe propane to be a viable fuel right now. The equipment is there for conversions, carbureted or gaseous injection (no liquid propane injection - yet.) The availability is there, there are about 8-10 places I can get propane within a 5 mile radius from my house, on road trips there are KOA's and other companies that cater to RVs that sell propane. Propane itself is a good fuel, and a 13:1 propane motor should end up with better economy than a 9.5:1 gas motor, not to mention that propane's cheaper to begin with.

  7. #22
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    What all is involved in a propane conversion? Can a EFI car be trained to use it? Or is it a separate injection system? Does the PCM get used at all?

    I can put my 455 back together in my 80 Turbo T/A with around 12.5:1 compression in short order. (1968 428 HO heads on a flat top 1970 455).

    (A little off topic here)
    There is a propane place near that has the big 30K gallon tank. It was on the news a few years back, a guy decided to commit suicide and drive into it at 50 mph and then get out and lock himself in the trunk. It came very close to exploding. We have some seriously brave firemen that kept it under control. One of the largest if not the largest alarm file in the county. Got national news on all 3 networks.

    http://www.kikkoman.com/news/news12.html

    http://openweb.tvnews.vanderbilt.edu...01-ABC-15.html

    http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/d...02_v02n91.html

    Can't seem to find any pictures, but it was a big one. Seems they used thermal imaging to know where to spray the hoses to keep it from blowing up. I am only 6 miles or less from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    See I believe propane to be a viable fuel right now. The equipment is there for conversions, carbureted or gaseous injection (no liquid propane injection - yet.) The availability is there, there are about 8-10 places I can get propane within a 5 mile radius from my house, on road trips there are KOA's and other companies that cater to RVs that sell propane. Propane itself is a good fuel, and a 13:1 propane motor should end up with better economy than a 9.5:1 gas motor, not to mention that propane's cheaper to begin with.

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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    New diesels in Europe are sold with a particle filter that makes it cleaner than a regular engine.

    Our Vectra does 38mpg and thats a 1.8l 4cyl family car.

    The problem is, anything with less then a V6 in the US is inferior to alot of people. We have some of the best diesels in the world right now in Europe, just that a small proportion of Americans actually want them. Dad is currently considering a Vauxhall Vectra 3.0 V6 Turbo Diesel, it gets 40mpg and is still fast enough for our needs.

  9. #24
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    In my case, I have 6 people in my family. I want something SAFE, and 3 to a row in the front is unacceptable.

    What could I drive in Europe?

    Van's aren't for me....

    Anything that can get 35+ mpg that would work?

  10. #25
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    Getting 6 people into a vehicle that does 45mpg (US) is not easy.

    Purely based on the fact you wnt to get 6 people in you have to look at either a minivan, an SUV or at a push a station wagon that has 2 extra seats in the load area for kids.

    Because you can't get more than 5 people in a regular car simple as that.

    You'd be looking at a diesel version of one of the following:

    Ford Galaxy (a lot shorter than a Voyager):


    The diesel model returns up to 43mpg (US) on the highway.



    Vauxhall Zafira (slightly smaller than the Galaxy):


    Diesel model gives up to 45mpg (US) on the highway



    Volvo V70 Station Wagon:
    (seats 7 due to 2 rearward facing child seats)



    Diesel returns up to 43mpg (US) on the highway




    Hyundai SantaFe (if you prefer an SUV):



    Diesel returns up to 39mpg (US) on the highway




    Theree are plenty more MPV's (like the Galaxy), station wagons and SUVs that offer seating for 7 with a diesel engine.



    You can get flex-fuel versions of some cars (eg the Galaxy) from the factory which can run on regular unleaded or lpg gas.
    The lpg gas is half the price of petrol/diesel in the UK

    The system starts when cold from petrol then automatically switches over to lpg gas.
    When the lpg gas runs out it will switch to petrol.

    You can switch between the 2 with the press of a button on the dash whenever you want (even while driving).

    There is a seperate fuel gauge for the lpg gas tank.


    A friend of mine has had the system retro-fitted to a 97 Tahoe and it works fantastic.
    That's in fact what I was going to buy before I bought my Seville STS.


    Bear in mind that running on LPG in the UK simply brings our fuel prices (in effect) to about $3 a gallon.

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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    Quote Originally Posted by mccombie_5
    Our Vectra does 38mpg and thats a 1.8l 4cyl family car.
    Remember that US gallons are 20% smaller so the car goes 20% less distance.

  12. #27
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    I forgot about that.

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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    The Echo (now Yaris) does it. The new Civic, Corolla, etc get close to it.

    Part of it has to do with weight. Weight is a major issue, as it puts strain on the engine, thus the engine uses more gas. Aerodynamics are another issue for some cars.

    But instead of asking why it takes only a few cars to do 40+ MPG on gasoline, you should be trying to get new fuel sources - namely hydrogen and ethanol fuels, which would MASSIVELY decrease our dependancy on foreign fuel, not to mention ethanol can be created right here at home from things such as corn, and costs much much less while polluting much less. Hydrogen, in the mean time, has a byproduct of - you guessed it! (or maybe not) - WATER!

  14. #29
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    I don't think hydrogen will ever be a viable fuel for passenger cars. Just too impractical. It takes a lot of energy to make it and the fuel is dangerous, and costly and a pain to transport.

    I agree, ethanol E85 is likely the way to go. At least for the next 100 years. Look at my threads on running it in my LT1. Runs good and has more power than gasoline!

    I won't put any of my kids in the back seat of a vehicle that has them sitting behind the rear axle. Not only unsafe, but foolish. I can't believe any car company would do it. Especially Volvo. Try a 60 mph rear impact and see if they have any legs left.

  15. #30
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    Re: Why does it take a hybrid to get 45 mpg these days?

    Well really the only option is to go with a minivan or MPV (like the Galaxy and Zafira) or an SUV.

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