Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!
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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD! in General Discussion; Two and a half years ago when we saw the spec sheets for the ATS, I knew there was something ...
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    blackonblackNYC is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Two and a half years ago when we saw the spec sheets for the ATS, I knew there was something very wrong. Simply put, the fundamental idea of creating a car to the exact spec of BMW was wrong headed. And it's now proving to be a failing strategy...the ATS has for the most part cannibalized GM and Ford/Lincoln sales. And after this year the CTS is going to have a problem, I couldn't believe how much the rear seats in the CTS felt almost as snug as the ATS. It doesn't matter what the reviewers sayabout the drive, people will get inside and say why is this car 4 inches longer, but still snug inside and say I'm not paying 60K. Poor strategy.

    "According to Edmunds' data, while ATS buyers cross-shop the CTS, the 3-Series, Audi's A4 and Infinit's Q50, it doesn't really go the other way. With the exception of Q50 buyers, those who cross-shopped the ATS were generally looking at other American brands, Buicks and Lincolns."

    http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...l-failing.aspx

    And now Don Butler has jumped ship, the head of Sales is gone...why?? Because the ATS has cannibalized existing GM sales rather than reach new buyers - period. The gen III CTS is too much car (and very pricey) given the interior space, just so a writer somewhere can say it's now in a 5-series class? So an extra 4 inches of sheet metal for semantics sake? Really? All Cadillac needed was a superior CTS. All of the sound engineering that went into the ATS and new CTS should've resulted in a car with the same dimensions as the gen II CTS, just lighter, maybe lower and a narrower. It's like the product team ruined awesome engineering. The six-speed tranny issue is another sore, spot but I think would've been forgivable by most buyers.

    As for me, I'm now stuck as gen II CTS owner - I'm not crazy about paying 45K for a car that feels too small...and I'm not dropping 55-60K for 4 cyl gen III CTS either. Caddy has given me nowhere to go, and their new BMW consumer never showed up...totally sucks

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    ben.gators is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I haven't seen Edmunds' data and have no idea about it, but what I see in ATS forum is that ATS has attracted and brought new customers to the brand, and many ATS owners used to own BMW 3 series, Audi A4, or similar cars. But I admit that the sales figures are not as good as we expected or hoping.

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    CTSCHICK is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Big difference between the back seats of the ATS & CTS my bf is 6'4" he can set the drivers seat to how he would drive the 3rd gen CTS and still fit comfortably in the back seat behind it.
    In my ATS he can not even get in the back seat behind a seat he has adjusted

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSCHICK View Post
    Big difference between the back seats of the ATS & CTS my bf is 6'4" he can set the drivers seat to how he would drive the 3rd gen CTS and still fit comfortably in the back seat behind it.
    In my ATS he can not even get in the back seat behind a seat he has adjusted
    This.

    OP, you obviously have not spent anything more than a quick in and out of the rear of the CTS. They are nowhere close to the same. I can NOT sit behind myself in an ATS. Not for anything more than a cross town trek, anyway.

    The CTS is certainly not cavernous, but I could sit behind myself(I'm 6'1, BTW) for a lengthy period of time. The back seat room is about the same as the earlier gen CTSs. The difference is, the sheetmetal has a swoopier shape and creeps over your shoulder. But overall room is very similar.

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    Ranger's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I'm not surprised. They have bastardized them so much they don't look like Cadillacs any more. Nothing distinctive. Just another run of the mill small car. Even the names no longer say "Cadillac". Just follow the crowd with a bunch of acronyms. They are about to loos e life long Cadillac fan.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I've looked at all the new Cadillacs a number of times. That XTS sales are down is not surprising. The rental fleets have all they can use, and I don't see a whole lot of them in private hands. The ATS is ok, but very small, and you can definitely see where they took the money out relative to the CTS. The CTS is very nice, but way overpriced for what it offers. It is NOT a $60-70K car by any stretch. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers the OP cited are accurate.
    orconn likes this.

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    There are tons of privately owned XTSs in the Northeast.

    As for the ATS being too small, open up your eyes. Everyone else has introduced a smaller sedan since their original small sedans had grown too large. The 3 series, A4, C class. All now have smaller entry level vehicles.

    If ANYTHING, they should've possibly enlarged the Sigma II for an STS sedan along with the new CTS. If the late 2000s weren't so badly timed for GM, maybe they'd have the money to do that.
    ryannel2003 likes this.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I have heard rumors of a large rear wheel drive Cadillac in a couple of years due to so many people jumping ship and going over to Lincoln, MB and BMW.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Gosh, I had thought that "so many people" had long ago "jumped ship" from Cadillac and gone to Lincoln (questionable), MB and BMW. Personally, aside from the small segment of performance oriented Cadillac buyers, I don't think that real potential Cadillac buyers give a hoot about FWD vs RWD. They just care about how the car looks, that it is comfortable and will the Cadillac lend them prestige.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    I have heard rumors of a large rear wheel drive Cadillac in a couple of years due to so many people jumping ship and going over to Lincoln, MB and BMW.
    What?

    First off, what Lincolns are Cadillac owners flocking to? Laughable.

    Second, the Omega has been talked about and in the works for years. It has always been in their plans. What RWD ANYTHING does Lincoln have except the Navigator? Which gets destroyed in sales by the Escalade...

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    Quote Originally Posted by orconn View Post
    Gosh, I had thought that "so many people" had long ago "jumped ship" from Cadillac and gone to Lincoln (questionable), MB and BMW. Personally, aside from the small segment of performance oriented Cadillac buyers, I don't think that real potential Cadillac buyers give a hoot about FWD vs RWD. They just care about how the car looks, that it is comfortable and will the Cadillac lend them prestige.
    Really? Because you guys must have stopped buying "those" Cadillacs in the 90s and early 00s. Better to improve and get with the times than cater to dinosaurs buying dinosaurs...

    ----------

    Just a recap.

    The MKS is a huge car with poor packaging. It can't be bought with a V8, has poor rear seat space and is based off a decades old Volvo.

    The MKZ is a new Ford Fusion rebadge with absolutely deplorable rear seat and headroom.

    Every other Lincoln is a Ford rebadge. What has Lincoln done to lure buyers away?

    As for prestige, Cadillac has given up on big, floaty turds for a lineup that compares with other "prestige" brands. And for most of the buying public, that's what matters. You goobers who want to point out sales figures totally ignore the fact that you are in the vast minority and business doesn't cater to the minority. Minorities pay premiums. And you're all too interested in paying a few grand for boats.
    ryannel2003 and Stingroo like this.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    There are tons of privately owned XTSs in the Northeast.

    As for the ATS being too small, open up your eyes. Everyone else has introduced a smaller sedan since their original small sedans had grown too large. The 3 series, A4, C class. All now have smaller entry level vehicles.

    If ANYTHING, they should've possibly enlarged the Sigma II for an STS sedan along with the new CTS. If the late 2000s weren't so badly timed for GM, maybe they'd have the money to do that.
    The same here in Madison Jim. Can't pull up to a light without seeing one here. They seem to be doing well in this area.

    Quote Originally Posted by orconn View Post
    Gosh, I had thought that "so many people" had long ago "jumped ship" from Cadillac and gone to Lincoln (questionable), MB and BMW. Personally, aside from the small segment of performance oriented Cadillac buyers, I don't think that real potential Cadillac buyers give a hoot about FWD vs RWD. They just care about how the car looks, that it is comfortable and will the Cadillac lend them prestige.
    I agree, the majority of buyers in the large car segment are more concerned with comfort and brand prestige. The catch in that though is that the prestige comes from the motoring media, and the auto writers are in that performance minority.

    The manufacturers build the cars to the needs of the performance crowd to woo the motoring press coverage, and the luxury buying majority are stuck with hard riding race cars.

    We had a similar situation in the 80's at Pontiac. GM was sick of the American car bashing the received in the press and came out with the 6000 STE. They worked the suspension and put performance tires on it, they added a special interior with super firm and bolstered seats.
    The car was the talk of the town on all the auto magazines and was a huge success, except on the sales floor. It was limited production and Pontiac sold every one they built, but 95% of the people who were brought into the showroom because of the car would drive it and hate the hard seats and buck-board ride.
    We would take them out of it and put them into a 6000 LE with the plush velour seats and floating ride and it was an easy sale.
    Cadillac could learn from that history. Build the performance model for the press and the small segment that actually want the racing handling, but be sure to have the plush luxury in the showroom for the actual buyers of the segment.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I agree completely, Dave. I just don't know how Cadillac with cars the cost more (prestige and value in the minds of many), demand an arm and a leg in maintenance and repair cost, and are in no way superior for American driving conditions when the "myth of superior German engineering" is so widely believed.

    I prefer an European style automobile over a large softly sprung behemoth, but that is my taste in cars, others prefer cars that have the attributes from the heyday of the American automobile. To each his own and may their always be choices!

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    Jailtime is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Cadillac needs a halo car now. Elmiraj and Ciel (maybe a sedan variant) would do just fine, and please keep those names. They also need the V-series sedan/coupe for ATS, sooner rather than later.

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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Lincoln?! They got NOTHING. Nada. Zilch. Negative bupkis. To quote Josiah, "I wanna go to Lincoln HQ and sign is as "John Wilkes Booth"."

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    CTSCHICK is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post

    As for prestige, Cadillac has given up on big, floaty turds for a lineup that compares with other "prestige" brands. And for most of the buying public, that's what matters. You goobers who want to point out sales figures totally ignore the fact that you are in the vast minority and business doesn't cater to the minority. Minorities pay premiums. And you're all too interested in paying a few grand for boats.
    talismandave likes this.

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