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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD! in General Discussion; Like they always say "Opinions are like *******s. Everybody has one". I love the new Cadillac's. They are high quality, ...
  1. #31
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Like they always say "Opinions are like *******s. Everybody has one".

    I love the new Cadillac's. They are high quality, well built, great handling vehicles in search of buyers who want to own something that isn't your typical run of the mill German luxury machine. I wouldn't hesitate to own one. For everyone saying they don't like the new Cadillac's, there are those who love them and wouldn't have been caught dead in one 10 years ago.

  2. #32
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    11 years ago.

  3. #33
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    Like they always say "Opinions are like *******s. Everybody has one".
    ...and the all stink.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    For everyone saying they don't like the new Cadillac's, there are those who love them and wouldn't have been caught dead in one 10 years ago.
    Well that is good, at 14 it would have been illegal for you!
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  4. #34
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    The ATS was a very important car for Cadillac to launch properly. The first two model years had a silly, goofy, Mazdaesque smiley face front fascia (the 2015 is a huge improvement) unbecoming of a Cadillac - and while the already established players in the segment have/can have a bare bones version with cheap looking wheels and a lack of fog lights - that's the wrong path for Cadillac to take when they're trying to make an impression. The cheapest ATS's are the ones seen most on the streets so Cadillac should have bit the bullet on a few bucks of earnings per vehicle sale and considered that marketing money well spent. Instead, nearly all the ATS's on the road aren't very attractive. The new IS is doing really well so there was/is plenty of room for a "cool" small, entry-level Cadillac.

    The CTS is having some trouble because it's going head to head with cars like the 5-Series and E-Class - which are firmly established as midsize luxury sport sedans. The CTS has always been the entry-level Cadillac. It's going to take a long time for people to comfortably relate the CTS with the 5-Series, E-Class and other established players. I always thought "ATS and CTS" was a huge mistake. It should have stayed "CTS and STS".

    There are other issues but I don't have time to get into all of them right now. On the other hand, you can't deny that Cadillac has come a long way and make really impressive products. I just hope the Omega "full size" has EVERY detail perfected. There cannot be cost cutting with the S-Class / 7-Series competitor. Hyundai's second generation Equus will be ready by the time this new Cadillac flagship is on dealer lots. And if you think that doesn't matter, you're sadly mistaken.
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  5. #35
    ben.gators is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    The first two model years had a silly, goofy, Mazdaesque smiley face front fascia (the 2015 is a huge improvement)
    I beg for differ! The 2015 model year looks silly with that long horizontal grille, and many in ATS section agree with me. The 2013, 2014 year models look mean and aggressive, whereas the 2015 looks retarded and silly; it seems that the 2015 ATS is smiling, but not in a classy and elegant way.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I have to agree with Ben, the 2015 grill looks silly, kind of like a drunk Chrysler product!

  7. #37
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    I agree that I like the original ATS look better than the '15...

  8. #38
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I prefer the older grille as well, but one advantage of the '15 over the older models the gaping, black plastic where the '13 and '14 is missing the LED running lamps. The '15 has the piece of chrome along the entire bottom of the car and doesn't look as cheap without the lights. Then again, Cadillac should make those standard on all trims and drop the horrible 2.5 engine while they're at it.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac
    The ATS was a very important car for Cadillac to launch properly. The first two model years had a silly, goofy, Mazdaesque smiley face front fascia (the 2015 is a huge improvement) unbecoming of a Cadillac - and while the already established players in the segment have/can have a bare bones version with cheap looking wheels and a lack of fog lights - that's the wrong path for Cadillac to take when they're trying to make an impression. The cheapest ATS's are the ones seen most on the streets so Cadillac should have bit the bullet on a few bucks of earnings per vehicle sale and considered that marketing money well spent. Instead, nearly all the ATS's on the road aren't very attractive. The new IS is doing really well so there was/is plenty of room for a "cool" small, entry-level Cadillac. The CTS is having some trouble because it's going head to head with cars like the 5-Series and E-Class - which are firmly established as midsize luxury sport sedans. The CTS has always been the entry-level Cadillac. It's going to take a long time for people to comfortably relate the CTS with the 5-Series, E-Class and other established players. I always thought "ATS and CTS" was a huge mistake. It should have stayed "CTS and STS". There are other issues but I don't have time to get into all of them right now. On the other hand, you can't deny that Cadillac has come a long way and make really impressive products. I just hope the Omega "full size" has EVERY detail perfected. There cannot be cost cutting with the S-Class / 7-Series competitor. Hyundai's second generation Equus will be ready by the time this new Cadillac flagship is on dealer lots. And if you think that doesn't matter, you're sadly mistaken.
    ^ This...Hyundai is starting to impress...there, I said it!^

    When the ATS was launched, I was at the Infineon raceway in CA for the Cadillac challenge. At the time, no customer had taken delivery, but the first batch was to be part of a tour



    So, we ( the V owners in the corral ) were allowed to sit in these...all three trim levels were represented...though mostly black....nice enough car, but the lighting on the top trim level made a statement that perhaps should have been a standard offering on all trim levels...lighting is cheap.

    What was interesting to me was that Cadillac put all 19 ATS cars on the track, and followed with the CTS V cars...sort of rained on their parade in a sense (but, hey, I was invited to ride shotgun, though only hit 110 mph at one spot..lee caught up to the batch of ATS cars right in front of the grandstand to "steal the show"



    Making an impression is important...especially the first impression. I go back to the first XLRs, where those critics starting bashing right away...comparing with the top European offerings. Have to get those folks in our damp first.

    Put the ATS power train in the ELR, and I will be at the dealership. The ELR looks better than those Hyundai pos offerings.

  10. #40
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    wut.
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  11. #41
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    I took a 12 hour vote outside of here on which front-end styling was more appealing and it went 12 to 1 with one un-decided for the 2015. I'm willing to bet that most people already find the new styling more appealing and that 50% of those who currently prefer the old styling will have the new look grow on them in short time...

    Why am I posting this? Simply to demonstrate that I'm not the only one who prefers the new look over the old. I'd be willing to bet Cadillac also prefers the new styling.

    Personally, I feel the old styling hurt ATS sales. I believe that if it were launched with the 2015 bumper, more people would have purchased it over a competitor's product.
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  12. #42
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    A bumper? Really?

  13. #43
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    A bumper? Really?
    You're serious? It's the face of the car! We'll have an arm wrestle in Detroit to settle this...
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  14. #44
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    Bring your nip guards...
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  15. #45
    ben.gators is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac Sales Down by 2.3%...with the ATS and XTS down by over 20%...NOT GOOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    I took a 12 hour vote outside of here on which front-end styling was more appealing and it went 12 to 1 with one un-decided for the 2015. I'm willing to bet that most people already find the new styling more appealing and that 50% of those who currently prefer the old styling will have the new look grow on them in short time...

    Why am I posting this? Simply to demonstrate that I'm not the only one who prefers the new look over the old. I'd be willing to bet Cadillac also prefers the new styling.

    Personally, I feel the old styling hurt ATS sales. I believe that if it were launched with the 2015 bumper, more people would have purchased it over a competitor's product.
    Hum, I have a feeling that you had a hand in changing (or supporting the change of) the front bumper! We need to have a serious talk, Sal!

    12 to 1?! Results are overwhelmingly in favor of the new design! I am looking at '13 and '15 bumpers, while trying to leave aside my bias towards the '13. But still I cannot see why 12 people out of 13 liked '15 bumper. Even if we agree that (which I don't!) '15 is more attractive than the '13, it still doesn't explain such a huge bias towards the '15 model. They are not that different to create such a huge difference in statistics.

    I totally understand that the owners of the older versions tend to get used to the design and then dislike the newer designs. Go and see couple of threads in the lounge, where our older members dislike ANY Cadillac that has been manufactured after theirs. That being said, there is always a group of owners of the older versions, who are looking for converting their older front to the new face-lifted front. This is normally a very common mod. But when I look at the ATS section, I see absolutely no interest to do it, NON! And even some joke that the owners of the new, face-lifted ATS will be searching the junkyards to buy the older bumper and convert their face-lifted ATS to the older front.

    The next question is about your statistical population. If you go around and collect data on what people want from their cars, the results would be something like this:
    Majority prefers automatic transmission over manual transmission.
    Majority prefers a N/A I-4 engine with 160HP over a LSA engine.
    Majority prefers a car with soft suspension over sport suspension.
    Majority prefers soft, feedback-less steering over a sporty steering system.
    Majority even doesn't know the difference between RWD and FWD and therefore they prefer to pay less for FWD.
    Majority prefers better MPG over better performance.

    The result of vote: Let's stop building sports car and replace them with Toyota Camry LE! That is what the majority wants! The point is that the votes need to be collected from the people who belong to the segment of the market that the car is targeting. BMW owners, G37 owners, Audi A4 owners, C-class owners, CTS owners, STS owners,.... basically the people who like luxury sports car, and are actually WILLING to buy one. These are the people that their votes count. This is why I am asking question about your statistical population and how you picked them up. It is likely that my old aunt prefers the '15 bumper over the '13 mostly because the '15 is more conventional and normal, whereas the '13 looks aggressive. But her opinion doesn't and shouldn't matter because she likes her Toyota Corolla and there is no way she wants to buy a Cadillac ATS. The customers of luxury sports cars usually prefer aggressive, daring, out of box, different designs. In my humble opinion, even '13 is not aggressive enough.

    As for sales figure and the bumper, really?!

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