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5K views 77 replies 13 participants last post by  BeelzeBob 
#1 ·
http://www.autopacific.com/sub_pr.php?action=view&sub=&section=12&type=58&group=99&id=631

"Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. has been selling cars and trucks in the United States since 1957. It took awhile, but gradually Toyota vehicles became accepted by the American buying public and now, almost 50 years later, Toyota is a major force in the American automotive battleground selling cars and trucks through three brands; Toyota, Lexus and Scion. A Toyota under any name is in the consideration set of over one in three new vehicle buyers in the United States.

Buyers choose Toyota because of the legendary durability, quality and reliability of its products. Buyers of most vehicles expect them to last 100,000 to 150,000 miles before going to the scrap heap. Toyota buyers commonly expect 200,000 miles (especially with Toyota trucks). They are content to get 300,000 miles and then gloat when they get 350,000 miles. Even though most buyers will trade their vehicle in five or six years, Toyotas are perceived to be indestructible.

Everybody makes mistakes and Toyota is no exception. Its fumbles have not been because its cars and trucks were not good in their own right, they just fell short of meeting the requirements of American buyers. Remember the mid-engined Previa minivan? How about the Tercel and the MR2? The final generation Supra made a run at a part of the market historically defined by Chevrolet's Corvette that functionally brought about the demise of the Supra altogether. And in the company's current line, the youth-targeted (but boomer accepted) Echo is a clear "miss."

"The most recent feather in Toyota's cap is its hybrid powertrain strategy. Launching the Prius as a stand-alone hybrid single-handedly established an extremely desirable image for both hybrids and Toyota in the United States."
 
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#2 ·
The Tercel was an absolute disaster. I remember people in latin america wouldnt own them because they were the "American Toyota" and thus perceived as trash. My dad had an 87 for a while and that thing was a pile of junk. One of VERY FEW blunders in Toyota's history (besides the bland styling)
 
#3 ·
Playdrv4me said:
The Tercel was an absolute disaster.
I remember those when new. They were just too light for traction on icy/snowy conditions, etc.

On the other hand, in the early 1970's my Moms' friend had a Corolla and it NEVER broke down even up into the mid-1980's! She eventually bought a new Honda Accord at that time...
 
#5 ·
Toyota makes some great cars, no doubt. But the styling just isn't there for me. I mean, I would rather get a Mazda3 than a Corolla, etc. And Honda's are REALLY bland for the price you pay. Yes, they are reliable, but I mean the new Accords at my Honda dealership were like 27 grand - for a HONDA! I could buy a BMW 3 series for that much or better yet, a Mustang:devil:V8.
 
#6 ·
ben72227 said:
Toyota makes some great cars, no doubt. But the styling just isn't there for me. I mean, I would rather get a Mazda3 than a Corolla, etc. And Honda's are REALLY bland for the price you pay. Yes, they are reliable, but I mean the new Accords at my Honda dealership were like 27 grand - for a HONDA! I could buy a BMW 3 series for that much or better yet, a Mustang:devil:V8.
Accords here are 27 grand. (for a nice mid-level one) I figured they would be about 22K in the U.S. Depends which trim level I guess.

I think the new Accord hybrid will take Car of the Year if it didn't already??
 
#7 ·
I drive a CTS--so a Camry and Accord aren't exactly my types of cars, but if I had to make a choice between the 2, I'd take the Honda anyday.

However, Toyota & Lexus are very popular. Both will continue to sell very well.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but if Cadillac could compete very well with Lexus, then why can't Chevy compete with Honda & Toyota???

This really drives me crazy. I would prefer a CTS, STS, XLR, Escalade over any Lexus or Acura WITHOUT QUESTION. But when it comes to the lower priced models, there is no way I would buy a Chevy Malibu or Impala over a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. I just wouldn't...
 
#8 ·
But when it comes to the lower priced models, there is no way I would buy a Chevy Malibu or Impala over a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. I just wouldn't...
...which is one of GM's biggest problems. They're "bread and butter" cars suck ass, which is really not a good thing since that market sells the most vehicles and Japan, basically, dominates the budget/compact market. If Chevy put as much effort into the Cobalt as they did the new Z06, the Cobalt would be a class leader. But they don't; and its troubling. I mean, they spend billions to re-invent Cadillac with the cool marketing and a complete redesign of the cars, but they won't do so for their biggest brand of all and (argueably) the backbone of GM - Chevrolet.
 
#9 ·
After studying up on hybrids and all, and how they are not as economical as Toyota and Honda want you to think, I have come to the conclusion that Toyota thinks Americans must be somewhat stupid if they think can pull this hybrid thing off on us. Well, some are buying them and I guess some are...I wont say it. Hybrids are not as economical as a normal quality plain gas car.

I think the Cobalt came out fairly decent!
 
#10 ·
majax said:
Hybrids are not as economical as a normal quality plain gas car.

I think the Cobalt came out fairly decent!
I've heard that for the Honda Civic hybrid to pay for itself and the extra expense over a regular Civic, you would have to drive it 26 years to get your moneys worth out of it! (to equal the gas savings) So if true, it's not really practical in that regard like you say. I'm impressed with the 255 hp (?) in the new Accord Hybrid, but probably only dedicated tree huggers will pay the extra expense for one to have the bragging rights, etc. The only other hybrid that I can think of with that kind of power might be the Lexus SUV Hybrid.

The Cobalt looks ok, but falls in the boring side of the scale IMO.
 
#13 ·
I think the gas-electric Hybrid thing is a mistake and it will fall away like lazer discs and 8-tracks. Edmunds did a study not long after I did some research on my own and they discovered that gas prices would have to go up to $9.20 a gallon before you got your moneys worth. Currently Insurance is higher on hybrids, some are somewhat slow and small, and they the Prius (from what I heard from one owner) is sensative when it comes to wind resistance. Better yet hyrbrids are like the diesles that came out during the energy crisis in the 70's and early 80's. For a new tech to succede it has to be better from the get go(i think).
 
#14 ·
majax said:
I think the gas-electric Hybrid thing is a mistake and it will fall away like lazer discs and 8-tracks. Edmunds did a study not long after I did some research on my own and they discovered that gas prices would have to go up to $9.20 a gallon before you got your moneys worth. Currently Insurance is higher on hybrids, some are somewhat slow and small, and they the Prius (from what I heard from one owner) is sensative when it comes to wind resistance. Better yet hyrbrids are like the diesles that came out during the energy crisis in the 70's and early 80's. For a new tech to succede it has to be better from the get go(i think).
Well, what worries me is that if more people suddenly decide to buy these Hybrids, oil companies make less money, so then to make up the difference in losses, the oil companies will jack up the prices anyways, so we all suffer. It might not save anybody money in the end.
 
#15 ·
Ralph said:
I think GM, Ford and Chrysler are seriously going to be left behind in this department. Isn't Honda and Toyota already on their second or third generation hybrids like the Prius, etc!?
Once again I think this deperatment will fade into the dust. So in other words I believe it is more important for GM and the others to focus on building better gas engines. GM does have the hybrid truck but it uses that power for rear outlets and what not.
 
#16 ·
Ralph said:
Well, what worries me is that if more people suddenly decide to buy these Hybrids, oil companies make less money, so then to make up the difference in losses, the oil companies will jack up the prices anyways, so we all suffer. It might not save anybody money in the end.
I can agree with that, the auto industry and oil industry keep each other in check and if say the oil companies over price gas the car companies respond with more efficient cars and so on and so forth.
 
#20 ·
Ralph said:
Apparently quite a few people are buying those Mercedes "Smart Cars" here since they just started offering them. They make a decent city commuter car for people that live in the "burbs and just need to get into work everyday, etc.
Those are kinda cool, the only thing I would worry about is safety. Now that I think about it I think we are going through a period where the oil companies cannot keep up so the car companies are making more gas effecient cars so less gas can used in the overall market while the higher gas prices keep the oil companies compensated. My spelling has gone to hell:disappoin
 
#23 ·
As far as Toyota being an "unstopable force" I just think that they can better execute where to spend the money on a car. If you compare a GM car to a Toyota you will find that the money in most cases is more propotionaly spent throughout the vehicle while in a GM car it may be more focused in certain areas.
 
#24 ·
Ralph said:
Well, what worries me is that if more people suddenly decide to buy these Hybrids, oil companies make less money, so then to make up the difference in losses, the oil companies will jack up the prices anyways, so we all suffer. It might not save anybody money in the end.
That's not exactly how supply and demand is supposed to work. There would be a reduction in demand so the equilibrium point would slide on down and to the left, meaning less production and cheaper prices. But who the hell knows what oil companies are thinking, they don't really follow economic principals like other companies tend to.
 
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