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1964 Corvair Monza - Operation Crustbuster

27K views 168 replies 23 participants last post by  rodnok01 
#1 · (Edited)
Alright, So some of you know that I have been working on something very dangerous. Something unsafe... at any speed. Well, I figured I may as well share my progress with you guys here.

A few months back Stingroo and I were playing Forza motorsport, and an update came out which included the Corvair. I immediately was drawn to the vehicle, and playing with it from the seat of my ultra high-tech prosche simulator box, I fell in love with it. Roo recalls me asking "why do people hate these cars so much?" To which he replied "Ralph Nader." At that point I went offline.



Well, then in real life, literally less than 48 hours later. I showed up with this.



I found it in Merrit Island, just west of Cocoa beach. Rotting away on the side of the road with a bunch of stickers in the window. "1964 CORVAIR MONZA CONVERTIBLE. NEEDS CARBS CLEANED AND GAS TANK DRAINED." I spoke with the chap who owned it, he had told me it wouldn't crank over. I had brought my go-bag with all kinds of test equipment, enough to make any vehicle within reason start. I show up, and I say "I want to test it." He looked at my blankly, and said "well there's no battery." To which I replied, "I brought a jump box, let me see the key." At that point he hands me a small masterlock padlock key. I look up at him, expecting him to laugh at the joke he just made. He didn't. I said 'this is the key?" "Yes that is the only key the car came with." Much to my surprise, I put it in the ignition, attempted to turn it, and miraculously, it wouldn't do a thing! Because it is not a padlock. It is a car. It was heavily rusted in some parts, great in others. Everything was there. All I had to go on when I got the car was a title and a good feeling, so we negotiated, and I put it on a flatbed and took it home.



First thing I did was break into the car and take the locks out, then take them to an antiquities locksmith. To my great pleasure, all the cylinders matched! One key did everything. Over the next few days I found that the gas tank didn't need to be drained at all! God had taken care of that for me, through the miraculous combined efforts of corrosion and gravity! I sprayed starting fluid (I call it 'special juice') into the intake manifolds, after replacing the battery, turned the key, and it sputtered and twitched. This was a good sign. After patching the tank, and rebuilding the cars' two single barrel carburetors, re-did the fuel lines, and cranked the engine over, with a bit of prayer. It started!!!! Then stopped. I found it would stay alive at high RPM's. So I pull the vacuum advance, and it died immediately. Clearly timing was to blame. I re-timed the engine using the "old fashioned" method (left till it pings, then right a bit.) and the car ran like a top!



After that, I went to go take it for a ride. Filled up the brake fluid, let out the clutch, and she carried along fine! Then I... well... hit the brakes. Yeah... After some creative engine braking and swearing and cursing, I got the car back into my driveway. It was pissing brake fluid from all the lines. New brake lines were $200! So I said to myself, "Know what's less than that? A roll of tubing." So I spent my free time the next couple days under the car with a flaring tool and a line bender, and completely re-plumbed it. Bled it, and bam! Brakes. With some more tuning, I had the car going like a scalded cat! I was commuting with the little scamp already, and it was loving every moment of it, and getting 24MPG in the process!




However there are still issues. There is quite a bit of rust on this car. The floor pans are SHOT, and the rockers are on their last legs. This being GM's first unibody car, those are the main structural components of the vehicle, which cause things like the doors being very difficult to close, especially with the convertible top down.



I ordered some new floor panels and other bits, and drove the car over 200 miles to my body guy, who has agreed to take on the body project. (The car was a champ the whole ride, by the way. It did vapor lock after I sat in traffic for a while, though. I was too lazy to insulate fuel lines. Lesson learned.) I am planning on connecting the car's two subframes, making the body much more solid. I expect this to greatly improve handling. As of right now, the car is with my body man, who is doing the welding, patching, and metalwork. This is the latest photo I have of the progress.

 
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#90 ·
Haha you guys are awesome. If anyone wanted to come help, I would stop by costco and get you guys all the tang and croissants you could handle! Ample floor space available, but is moderated and patrolled by Alex the dog, who would ensure your safety.



Anyway, There are two shells I have been looking at. The first is the one I have been offered for $600. It is a '62 Spyder 4 speed convertible body. He says the only problems are bondo over a patch panel and fender, which he took photos of, and I have uploaded to this album. The advantage of this car is that if I ever wanted to sell it, I could track down a turbo motor and throw it in, and have a potential to make a decent return, as factory turbo spyder cars are rare. Here is a link to the album he sent. He says it incudes an abundance of parts, including a good, painted suspension.
IMAGES:
http://www.majhost.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=269522

The other is a car that has been owned by this guy since 1982. He gave me quite a bit of backstory, hasnt given me a price yet, but this car has seen about 5 accidents and has had a rough ride. It is a '64 Monza 4 speed vert body, and it seems to be low rust with the exception of a gaping rust hole. He says he is emotionally attached to it so I'm not really leaning to this one at all. Here are the photos anyway.

http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l614/ihscomputers/White 64 vert/

What do you guys think? Mostly looking for opinions on the first one, as the second one scares me a bit.
 
#98 ·
Haha you guys are awesome. If anyone wanted to come help, I would stop by costco and get you guys all the tang and croissants you could handle! Ample floor space available, but is moderated and patrolled by Alex the dog, who would ensure your safety.

Awww....now I want to come even more! He is a cutie. I wouldn't get any work done with him around. :bouncy:

as far as the emotionally attached bucket ....it WILL be unsafe at any speed
:histeric:

pick me up on your way to florida :)
There we go! A couple of you STL guys could car pool over to Louisville and meet us there. Drop your car in the airport parking and hop in the Volvo.:thumbsup:
 
#100 ·
Alex the dog understands the confusion surrounding her androgynous name and forgives you for mistaking her for a boy dog.

To me, the first car (turbo) looks wicked solid. I asked him the following questions, and am waiting for a reply.

I would be very interested to see the condition of the suspension. Are the bushings and all that usable or will the suspension need complete going through? Are there any rubbers, fuzzies, seals, etc included? Does it have the convertible top? Also what of the brakes are included? Would it be possible to have this chassis rolling for transport purposes? A real list of what noteworthy stuff is included with the car would be awesome, as I would like to tell you what I do and do not need from it. Also, is there a timeframe you want to have a deal done with me by?

Finally, what is most important, my chief concern is to have a car that is structurally sound. Are there any fibreglass panels on this car? Was the bondo used to cover up a welded steel panel or to fill in a rust hole? Is there ANY rust that is serious enough to be flaky or "crunchy," anywhere on the car?
I need to sell my saab, and I am going to try to sell my el camino before doing this. Basically my two options right now, I am torn between my left and right brain. My left brain is telling me to ditch the corvair thing and buy a 2003+ saab with the GM motor and enjoy great gas milage and swedish reasonability. My right brain is telling me to screw reasonability, re-shell the corvair and drive the poop out of it. Cheaper and more badass.
 
#101 ·
My sincere apologies to the young lass. (Thank God I at least called her cute.):lol:

I think that sounds good. That one just looked right. For one example the bad one in every shot I saw things that just looked wrong. When he would shoot down the side of it, the raised body line that circles the car looked like it had been mudded to within an inch of it's life. I also paused on some of the scratches and it looked like it many coats of paint. It was so thick it in one spot looked like flaking fill and glaze, and could be. The turbo looked so straight and flat. If it was worked over, it was done by someone with mad skills. If they do body work on that level, they would probably have done it right.

Unless at some point of the tape his monotone narration put me to sleep and I missed a stack of hundreds in the glove box, I wouldn't take that one if he gave it to me and delivered it free. There weren't even parts to pull and sell.

As to the 03 vs the 64. that is an interesting quandary. While modern cars are much more reliable as the age they are prone to electrical gremlins that can be extremely costly. That is already a decade old. (Swedish parts, I have come to believe, are forged of gold bars and painted argent to not look pretentious.) The older ones have a rep that they run forever. But that was before every single function was interconnected with computers. I would personally say the jury is still out on that one. I don't think I will keep mine much past the warranty based on the bill amounts I have seen so far.
The Corvairs were very reliable in their day, and gave mileage in excess of my Volvo. They are also stone simple. Less stuff, less stuff to go wrong. When it does go wrong you don't need a degree in computer science to repair it yourself. There is a very active community of collectors so parts, I would believe, would be available and reasonable.

Good luck with the decision, see if you can find a Corvair forum or club and bounce it off their experts. We counsel enough like that here. The universe owes you one!
 
#102 ·
Agree....1st car. I see both of the original bumpers, which rule out front/rear accidents. Red as the original color, and I agree that some of the additional glass/Crome, gives you the chance to pick the best and sell the rest. With some rust evident, there is bodywork...including removal of some bondo repairs, if the rust was not stopped correctly. Would like to see him hang the doors so that the fit could be seen...
 
#103 ·
The corvair got 28mpg on the highway, and the motor was a breeze to work on and I never had any problems finding parts, and if I blow it up, running motors can be had for $200-300. Spyder motors can be had for under a grand. I think I could have it as a daily driver no problem. However no A/C and four wheel drums are not the best thing for Florida traffic. I'm waiting on the response from the '62 guy. Will keep you all posted.
 
#106 ·
But then the more expensive side of that coin is compressor, harmonic balancer, condenser, and laying the plumbing for that stuff! Also, where to put the condenser? Some people put it up in the trunk, but thats a lot of plumbing, and lost trunk space. Others mount it to the deck lid, but that harms engine air extraction... I dunno mang. A/C is scary stuff.
 
#107 ·
I had an hour long phone conversation with the guy who owns the shell. All in all it seems like an awesome shell, but he made me realize how much work would have to go into swapping the parts between the cars, and I am thinking about all the linkages, rollers, cables, etc that may not survive the transplant. So, right now, I am deciding between going through witht he re-shell ($600 for shell,) or finding another car, already mostly or completely together. He seems to be an authority on corvairs and tells me I should be able to find a rust free running Monza for under $2500 if I look hard, and work the haggle stick properly. So that's where I am at right now.
 
#109 ·
If this is a project you have your heart set on, then go for it!
If not, you may want to consider parting out what you have a cutting your losses ...
 
#111 ·
I had a landlord who had an interesting collection of Corvairs, various years and models in various stages of decomposition. None of them pristine. I think he may have had 5 or 6, most parked around the property, one or two in garages. I have no idea what his motivation was, he never worked on them to my knowledge. One quirky guy with a bunch of quirky cars!

:coffee:
 
#113 ·
Yeah, look at the cars I drive. Do any of them seem very rational? I also got into motorcycle partly for the great gas mileage. However, if you have seen my bikes, they top out at about 40MPG for my 900, and my most recent purchase, the CBX, gets around 25MPG. Compare this to "reasonable" commuting bikes that get 60-70MPG. The corvair is one of those things, like my 900, where I am TRYING to be reasonable, but still do what I love. In all other walks of life, I am a very reasonable businessperson who makes decisions at the margin. However, when it comes to wheeled transport...

The corvair is definitely NOT something I plan on profiting on. My dream with a corvair, honestly, is to have one I can fix up and POR-15 the hell out of, commute with it every day until I eventually cave in to reasonability and buy a 2008+ Saab 9-3 (My most favorite "reasonable" car.) and then maybe one day, if I can keep it in good enough shape, pass it on, as an awesome piece of American history. This car was an example of real American ingenuity that was shot down by nonsense media, and there is no car on the road more charming to drive than a corvair.
 
#114 ·
The first generation was not an example of American ingenuity, but a rather appealing, if copycat design, of a German upstart that was cutting into the low end of Chevrolet's market. GM must have been aware of the safety problems with the swing axle rear suspension used on German cars since the mid 1930's, but chose to design in the same defect that had made VW's and Mercedes unmanageable under certain driving conditions.

The thing that I could never understand was why US designers would put this stupid rear suspension on military jeeps (briefly) during the Vietnam war, where the dangerousness and inferiority of the design regularly land these Jeeps and their passenger in the ditch when a little rain combined with red clay made the roads slippery!
 
#115 ·
Taking the baseline from a german concept that was selling well (was a response to the Karmann Ghia,) and making it twice as good, and filling it with innovations, is a PERFECT example of American entrepreneurial ingenuity, in my opinion. Second ever turbocharged production car, made two EV's from Corvairs, they did a lot with the platform. While VW's struggled to make 50 horsepower, the first year corvair had almost 100, and the late model turbo's made 180. They sorted out the swing axle in '64 (another reason I like the '64.) Albeit quite rudimentary a fix (steel bar between axles), it was fixed. I dunno, I just think of it as a real first for America, and a really promising concept. If they hadn't been shot down by nader, GM would have probably continued with the concept. It's really interesting to wonder what would have happened if the officiall successor to the corvair wasn't the Nova.
 
#117 ·
Love the white interior, other than that I guess it would depend on what is under the paint. It strikes me as a 1000-1500 car with about a thousand dollars worth of paint job and about a thousand dollars worth of work to do yet. I have seen a lot of beautifully restored ones go over the block on auction shows and barely clear $6000.00. Unless I am missing something I think that project would be worth about $3000.00 at most.

Things like the rust on hinge in trunk photo #8 would make me wonder what it was when he started to be that rusty up under there!??
 
#118 ·
Hmm ...
I, personally, would pass on it. Basically, you'd be buying it for $4k plus what ever you've spent on your first car. You have to ask yourself;

1) Is it worth the money plus what you will have to spend to finish the restoration?
2) Are you up to the task?
3) The engine looks like it hasn't been touched, are you willing to rebuild it?
4) What do you estimate the total cost to you will be when it's done? (I'm guessing neighborhood of $10k when all is said and done)

If you can answer an enthusiastic 'Yes' to each of the above, plus any other questions they might conjure, then I think you have your answer!

:coffee:
 
#119 ·
Here is what he has said about it. I have spoken at length with him. He was restoring it for himself, but he fell ill and it's hard for him to move around now. He has over 20 corvairs.

Its Dusty - needs carpet and finished up - has NOS parts all over - including the rear taillight housings and lens - complete rubber and weatherstrip replacement (including front windshield) - when painted - any rust was cut out and replaced with original steel panels - engine does run - but will need to be resealed - Rhino Lined trunk and engine compartments - Right at 6000.00 in receipts - can't remember everything that has been done to date and not certain I can actually find all the receipts. on the paint - everything painted to match - inside and out including door jams - inside of car down to the steering wheel and trunk and engine lid interior.
He says all parts are included, and all I have to do is assemble it, and re-seal the engine. The engine doesn't scare me. Corvair engines are both a breeze and a blast to work on. You can see in the photos the new weatherstrips, which are a pretty big deal. He is encouraging me to come and check it out. Dave, your opinion has the most weight. What is your opinion, in light of these new facts?
 
#121 ·
I am sorry to all the members for this marathon post.

Now, Lupin...
First, thank you for the compliment, but I am no expert on Corvair values.

Generally, as to buying anyone's restoration project there are general things to keep in mind. The $6000,00 invested sounds nice. However, he could have started with a basket case and that could be why it is such a high amount and still not in beautiful condition. You know what floor board cost, imagine doing both rockers and four fenders. The cost of the NOS parts are high. Does it add any value to your use for the car? Would you be happier with the 4 NOS tail lights than you would with 4 OK looking originals, or 4 from the junkyard? He could have had them plated in gold and he would have 7000.00 in the car, still not worth more to me.
For someone who wants to put it in judged competition it would be wise to use NOS parts, for someone like me who wants a fun nice looking car to drive not really. If you are in love and sure you want to keep the car the rest of your life it is worth it. Otherwise for a fun driver for a few years, you would be better with a solid original with a couple pieces of a road sign welded in the couple of bad spots.

Specifically by photo things that I would question are...

1st pic...rear bumper loks more than just dusty, looks like it is scraped/scratched and dented. Rust on roof frame rail and bad or missing weatherstrip. Also white spots over right inside tail light and right hand side of licence frame on the raised body line. Most look like reflections, those don't. Wire cable sticking up in top compartment left side looks like something gone wrong with top.

2nd pic...Look at passenger foot well, looks like rust in body to floor joint. Also around floor fresh air vent in kick panel.

3rd pic...Can't fault the body lines, they are beautiful.

4th pic...Again the scuff on reised body line above inside tail light,doubt it is reflecting the same spot from a different angle, also front floor board center looks rusty, how bad?

5th pic...Looks fine down the line.

6th pic..Floor looks better than I expected, would still like to scrape/poke it to be sure. Interior looks stunning as the body work and paint. corner above wing window looks pitted and bad.

7th pic...vent window handle, horn ring, and seat side strips look pitted. Feeling better about floor as we get closer pictures. Horn button and window weatherstrip? Come with new?

8th pic...Both top end of windshield trim look bad as does glove box chrome. Floor again looks better with close up.

9th pic...Nothing to fault here. Beautiful body and paint.

10th pic...That rusty hinge still bugs me. Seems like an odd spot.I have had cars rust out from under me and still looked factory fresh on trunk hinge. Otherwise cant see anything wrong, can't see anything period with undercoat?

11th pic...waste of a pic?

12th pic...This one bothers me and makes me question all the body work. I am admittedly a hack body man and have no talent or training....even I would have treated rust inside the air intake/exhaust holes, sanded smooth the area around them, and not painted the hood spring and rubber bumpers. Sloppy and not fitting of the NOS parts and rest of the great paint work.

13th pic...

14th pic...Just the engine. I cant believe you would be doing all that work and not even wipe it down a little. Is the engine the original? Maybe to sell car he swapped in a turd and kept the one he was going to use?

15th pic...If engine is the original it tells a story of the whole car. looks like parked in a field for a long time before resto.

16th pic...Paint flaking off of the drivers side! Why? Bad prep?

17th pic...Again I would like to see a photo of what he started with. How long and how poorly stored is a car to have the engine look like this? More paint flaws around lip of hood.

18th pic...? Don't know why this is here. The sine on his shoes?

So those are the things I see and the questions I have about them. If I could be assured of positive answers (that I believed) to all these concerns, I would be interested personally at no more than $2500.00 trade. That would be if all the parts I pointed out were included if missing or damaged, or turned out to be good when I thought they were bad. You could easily have another 1000-1500 to get it on the road and right. Looking at the engine condition would make me concerned about all of the running gear. If the underside looks like that engine think brakes, lines, bushings, tie rod ends, etc. etc....

I think you could do better finding a good driver quality one or a completed resto that is old and showing a little wear, or one with a bad engine that they don't want to repair. I am just not comfortable with this one, It just "feels" wrong to me.It is free to look, and you may crawl under it and find it is beautiful under it. If that were the case stretch to 3000 if you like it. Or just keep looking.
 
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