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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood in General Discussion; It's not just U.S. automakers that are guided by profitability. They all are prone to cut corners and be complacent, ...
  1. #76
    orconn's Avatar
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    It's not just U.S. automakers that are guided by profitability. They all are prone to cut corners and be complacent, just look at Mercedes after the the turn of the century. You guys tell me that Honda and Toyota have followed suit content to live of their reputations!

    And let's not forget all those suckers out their willing to pay big prices for what amounts to a "frosted" truck!

  2. #77
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    It would of been nice if someone in GM could have saved the B-D platform even though they wanted to focus on SUV's.
    Someone actually did try. An outside company (can't remember the name, but it's out there) but in a real bid to buy ALL the tooling to continue making the Caprice platform for taxi and police use. GM refused. Remember, the 94-96 Caprice set records in the Michigan State Police testing that I believe still stand. Police departments would have stayed loyal if they could have still bought the product. In fact, many did just that, choosing to completely refurb Caprices instead of buying Crown Vics. Places like Shaheen charged almost $20 000 to re-do a cop car with new engine/trans/rear/suspension/steering/etc.

    Like any greedy corporation, they went with what made them money to please the stockholders.
    Isn't that why corporations are in business? To make money? Don't get me wrong, everyone knows I am the biggest B/D body fan out there. It was the right business decision, though, when you look at it without the rose coloured glasses.

    Yes, a new unibody RWD platform is what was needed. It existed in Australia, and should have been seamlessly introduced here. LHD versions were always available in the Middle East. After the 1996 B was discontinued, those countries got to buy brand new Caprice models the next year. This could have easily been adapted into a Fleetwood Brougham model:



    Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course. The 2012 Caprice police package is now showing up at dealers. Made in Australia. This pic was taken this week in NH. Same car as the dead G8, except longer wheelbase.

    Stingroo and Stingroo like this.

  3. #78
    Stingroo's Avatar
    Stingroo is offline Wagon/Audio Enthusiast
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Lol When I opened this thread I was like "That photo looks awfully familiar...." then scrolled up.

    And yeah, there are departments in FL that still used Caprices as recent as 2-3 years ago. One showed up in my local yard over the summer, actually. Decals and all.

  4. #79
    SDCaddyLacky's Avatar
    SDCaddyLacky is online now Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    That's pretty cool, Australia gets all the good stuff

    I understand the need for businesses to make money, that's the whole reason why they're in business obviously. But some companies operate to strictly protect the bottom line, instead of sacrificing a little profit to make a great product or service.

    My dad owns a restaurant, he works everyday, not because he can't afford a manager, but because if he did hire a manager to take his place, he would have to cut back on his food quality which he refuses to do. High Quality and large food portions is what his restaurant is known for. If he hired someone to work for him, he wouldn't be able to afford the higher food cost. He sacrifices what he can, in order to please his customers.

    Far too many brands from electronics, to cars, to tools, have gone down in quality in last several years. I understand the process of cost cutting, but some companies are taken it way too far even when they can easily absorb the higher cost of whatever is it may be.

    GM needs to bring the Caprice back to the States. It's amazing how many police departments across the country preferred the Caprice over the Crown Vics. I know a local cop that said he was extremely disappointed when he found out when GM discontinued there full frame cars, and that meant the Caprice. The Vics are good cars he told me, but he missed the power of the 350, and more solid feeling of the Caprices.

  5. #80
    drewsdeville is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by SDCaddyLacky View Post

    GM needs to bring the Caprice back to the States. It's amazing how many police departments across the country preferred the Caprice over the Crown Vics. I know a local cop that said he was extremely disappointed when he found out when GM discontinued there full frame cars, and that meant the Caprice. The Vics are good cars he told me, but he missed the power of the 350, and more solid feeling of the Caprices.
    Perhaps the departments liked the Caprice, but as Ford has taught us, it's nearly impossible to profit on a fleet-only vehicle. The Vic was a 30+ year old vehicle when it died, was the best example of a cheap-to-produce parts bin car, had the fleet market by the balls because of it's incredibly low cost, and still died because it still couldn't turn a profit. Bringing back the Caprice solely because the police like them would be a large mistake.

    At least this new one is on a global platform that sells well elsewhere, and therefore has a better chance of turning a profit and sticking around. I'm not holding my breath, however, as I think Ford is going to win the battle in this coming generation.

  6. #81
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    GM is importing the Holden from Australia for fleet customers (and fleet customers only). I wonder how the business model works on that.

    Currency exchange rates killed off the GTO and G8 last time.

  7. #82
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by SDCaddyLacky View Post
    Like any greedy corporation, they went with what made them money to please the stockholders.
    HELLO?!?!?????! GM and profits haven't gone together since I can remember. Unions sure came out smelling like roses after the 2008 bankruptcy and government meddling. Those "greedy corporations" you scornfully refer to make profits for investors like you (hopefully), me, your neighbors, all of our 401k's, and everyone who wants to take a chance that GM can make it happen. Corporations don't happen by accident, it's people who make them great, we Americans are lucky enough to have the freedom to take a chance to ride along and hopefully the risk is worth it and then we all win.


    The beloved 93-96 Fleetwood Brougham was not really taken seriously when new. I am still amazed at all the youngens on this site who love the cars - when those cars were new they were about as stylish as a new Grand Marquis is today: a painfully outdated car that with a very limited market. To really be successful, the 93-96 Fleetwood needed to be a revolutionary, unique, and thoughtful design made from quality materials buyers could see and feel. Instead, the Fleetwood came out as sort of a cheap caricature of a Cadillac, a car that didn't have a chance in a market with such increasingly serious competition.

    I hope Cadillac can change its ways, and soon!
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  8. #83
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    GM made money hand over fist in the late 90s.

    Like Ford and Chrysler, they squandered every penny.

  9. #84
    Rick James is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    How much profit is too much profit for a corporation to make? It depends on if you are invested with them or not I suppose. Or rather it depends on the relationship with the company. If the company is making gigabillions, and they refuse to pay healthcare, that's crap. If they're making gigabillions and they are the Forbes best company to work for, it's probably okay.

    I thought GM was a fairly reputable company, but honestly I have no idea.

  10. #85
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    GM made money hand over fist in the late 90s.

    Like Ford and Chrysler, they squandered every penny.
    Gas was a buck a gallon in the late 90's too, everyone drove a full size truck or SUV. I suppose it could be argued that GM both "squandered" and yet also didn't squander money a little over 10 years ago; way back then they sure paid their investors well, I just recall GM not having a dollar saved for a rainy day when the economy soured, gas prices drastically went up which caused a major shift in the vehicle market from trucks to cars - and there was GM heavy on makng big trucks, seemingly without a single dollar saved for a rainy day to cover the costs of paying high priced union factory labor, their pensions, and lifelong health care, much less money to actually do cars. Live and learn.

  11. #86
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    And Ford had this weird habit of buying European automakers.

    Well, GM too. Saab lost money for at least half the years that GM owned it.

  12. #87
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    GM, Chyrlser, and to a lesser extent Ford were really short sighted on the need to build competitive smaller cars. Their whole empire was propped up on building full size trucks and suv's, their corporate cost structure was so out of whack that those were the only things they could make a profit on. Really cheap gas in the 90's kept the domestic industry afloat another 10-15 years. Did they use that time to get their cost structures in line and really improve their car offerings?? Nope, by the mid-late 00's when they were making real strides and building better cars it was too little too late.
    drewsdeville and drewsdeville like this.

  13. #88
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    They needed to take a % of the profits of the trucks/SUV's and put it into modernizing the engines even more. Sure, the Gen III truck/car engines made great power, they didn't see fit that the REST if GM would see it. The 5.3L Grand Prix GXP was too late and wrong wheel drive. If they would have made the GP RWD and V8/rear drive they would have seen FLOCKS of people jump on the GM bandwagon.

    GM HAS to forget the idea that "oh we can't do that, it might distrub sales from xxx brand", a sale is a sale, if GM gets it or Ford or Toyota or Audi or .... A sale is a sale. When they make cars people don't want, or focus on crap sloppy front wheel drive platforms soley. Do the sell, yes, are the what people wANT, no.
    SDCaddyLacky and SDCaddyLacky like this.

  14. #89
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    They can never build something everybody wants, it's all about whats gonna make them quick money right now, and that is fuel efficient turd mobiles.

    I love my Fleetwood more and more everyday the more I see what's being spit out of the factory lines in 2011 from automakers across the globe.
    CadillacLuke24 likes this.

  15. #90
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Speaking of the 94-96 Fleetwoods, a friend picked me up in his Dark Cherry Metallic '94 Brougham last night, and we went out on the town for a while, and while it was a very nice car, it didn't get the attention nor compliments that my other friends' '79 DeVille or '88 Brougham got last weekend. My thought is that it doesn't look as classic as the older style models did and therefore didn't grab as many eyes.
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