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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood in General Discussion; Originally Posted by Tennesseestorm Well if none of you want your Fleetwoods, I will gladly trade you my '95 Town ...
  1. #31
    cadillac kevin's Avatar
    cadillac kevin is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennesseestorm View Post
    Well if none of you want your Fleetwoods, I will gladly trade you my '95 Town Car for it... no exterior trim issues on these cars, nor creaky door panel issues. LOL.
    dont forget the headlights that turn yellow, the quarter panel rust issues, the door hinges that sag causing the doors to not close, door handles that fall off, and various other ford issues. lol

  2. #32
    SDCaddyLacky's Avatar
    SDCaddyLacky is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    I know all too well about the door sagging issue on Town Cars ( the doors aren't even heavy either), including shrunken door seals. Ford did have a lot of cheap bits in it's cars back then. The dash panel on the 90-94's TC's were absolutely horrible in quality. The plastics on the Fleetwoods dash feels much better. I don't have any creaking at all from inside the Cadillac, besides for the door panel. It's because the seat/window switch plate gets loose over time and rubs against the vinyl trim that creates the squeaky sound. I simply need to find a way to make sure it's tight in the panel gaps and I think the problem will be fixed.

    The Fleetwood headlights are glass, so no worries about it turning yellow.

    Oh and you will love the real heavy duty chrome bumpers and stainless side trim

  3. #33
    Tennesseestorm is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    dont forget the headlights that turn yellow, the quarter panel rust issues, the door hinges that sag causing the doors to not close, door handles that fall off, and various other ford issues. lol
    Thats very true! I have had to do my headlight cleaning twice already! I hate the hazing. Thankfully, my car is a southern car and has never been in salt, my car is 100% rust free, but I do know that rust area you mentioned, I have seen it on alot of Town Cars that I see pics of from up north. I also hear that brake line and fuel line rust are issues on those... so glad mine is a southern car. I have heard about those sagging door hinges too and have seen where people have to slam doors, lol. Again, I am OK there, mine may have been replaced since it has 190K miles and still open and shut like new. Many of the problems that are trouble spots on these cars are not issues on mine, guess I am one of the lucky ones.... hopefully didnt jinx myself, LOL.

  4. #34
    Tennesseestorm is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Yeah and I wonder why those doors sag? Guess its the hinges. As mentioned above, I dont have that issue, at least not yet (nor the door seal issues). Mine may have been replaced before though. Mine is the 1995 model though and I have read that while the 1995-97 is the same chassis, it had many improvements over the 1990-1994 models, including better interior materials/quality.

    One big issue with the 4.6L in the Town Cars is valve seals failure.... when you idle in gear for a few minutes you will get an ugly puff of blue smoke when you accelerate from the stop, but until they get really bad, it dont do it in regular driving. Another issue on these are power window failures and the BDA, but again, I am lucky, mine is fine at least for now. lol.

    I like these old Town Cars, but I love these Fleetwoods too and hope to get one soon as my "cruiser" and keep my Town Car as a work car. These old RWD American V8 cars are iconic and nothing like them. Too bad they have faded away.

    Quote Originally Posted by SDCaddyLacky View Post
    I know all too well about the door sagging issue on Town Cars ( the doors aren't even heavy either), including shrunken door seals. Ford did have a lot of cheap bits in it's cars back then. The dash panel on the 90-94's TC's were absolutely horrible in quality. The plastics on the Fleetwoods dash feels much better. I don't have any creaking at all from inside the Cadillac, besides for the door panel. It's because the seat/window switch plate gets loose over time and rubs against the vinyl trim that creates the squeaky sound. I simply need to find a way to make sure it's tight in the panel gaps and I think the problem will be fixed.

    The Fleetwood headlights are glass, so no worries about it turning yellow.

    Oh and you will love the real heavy duty chrome bumpers and stainless side trim

  5. #35
    jayoldschool's Avatar
    jayoldschool is offline GM RWD V8 addict
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    One more Town Car post and this goes off to the Lounge...

  6. #36
    Cadillacboy's Avatar
    Cadillacboy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    I forgot to add , I wish these last gen big Fleetwoods had a better designed trunk lid , I love the way 1980-92's trunk lid , it's like work of art same
    goes for the chrome framed tail lights , they look dandier compared to 1993-96s . If it was an easy swap I would change the coloumn shifter , earlier models have a better lookin'design but handling and grabbing the shifter should be easier in last gen Fleetwoods

  7. #37
    Tennesseestorm is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    One thing I would have liked to have seen added to the Fleetwood was an engine temperature gauge. Also whatever change needed to make the dash pads less prone to cracking. Alot of southern models have cracked dash pads.

  8. #38
    pompste is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by SDCaddyLacky View Post
    Even tho I have many complaints about the 93-96 FLW's, I still would rather drive my Fleetwood than a any new Cadillac today. That is unless Caddy actually came out with that bad ass Ciel Concept! Once Caddy went on and started to build sports cars, I lost all respect for the brand, and I'm young guy in my 20's.

    I like old school boatish luxury cars, that's just what I like, American cars used to have that gravitas, and presence, not anymore. Everything looks like they were designed from the movie "Cars".

    I always get people staring at my Fleetwood, complimenting it, saying "Wow you don't see these kind of nice big Caddy's on the streets nowadays" "what a great car you got there". I mean hearing these words from strangers means something. It tells me that most newer cars to them are simply not impressive. Plus big Caddys are dead, so it makes all Fleetwoods and Broughams from 96 and down extra special cars that definitely get noticed and respected on the streets.
    You`ve got great taste in Caddy rides for such a young man! Most people in your age group like the sportier cars.
    I like the big Caddy luxury boats too.I hope to own a large Fleetwood someday.My 2 large Sedan Devilles,'78 & '95,are large enough for me now! I get many compliments on mine also.

  9. #39
    SDCaddyLacky's Avatar
    SDCaddyLacky is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by pompste View Post
    You`ve got great taste in Caddy rides for such a young man! Most people in your age group like the sportier cars.
    I like the big Caddy luxury boats too.I hope to own a large Fleetwood someday.My 2 large Sedan Devilles,'78 & '95,are large enough for me now! I get many compliments on mine also.
    Thanks Pompste! It must be strange for someone my age not being interested in sports cars, I guess I'm a rare breed! Lol. I don't mind sports cars, and enjoy little burners from time to time, but If I had a choice to pick something small and fast or big and slow, I'll choose the latter. Ever since I was 19-20 I had nothing but big cars, so going from a cruise ship to a fishing boat is really hard to accept.

    In time, I am thinking of only driving my Fleetwood on special occasions. I really want to preserve it. With gas holding steady around $4.00 where I live, it's starting to cost me a lot of money every month. So a little beater is in the picture soon.

    I wish Cadillac also added a Temp Gauge in the Fleetwoods, including miles to empty, and Instant MPG. The Devilles had all of that cool stuff on the display. You can check the exact engine temperature on the Fleetwoods by going into diagnostic mode on the climate control display. By pressing either 7 or 8, it will tell you. But who wants to go through all that trouble?

    Cadillac must of used really crappy quality vinyl for all the dashes to have a serious cracking problem.

  10. #40
    pompste is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by SDCaddyLacky View Post
    Thanks Pompste! It must be strange for someone my age not being interested in sports cars, I guess I'm a rare breed! Lol. I don't mind sports cars, and enjoy little burners from time to time, but If I had a choice to pick something small and fast or big and slow, I'll choose the latter. Ever since I was 19-20 I had nothing but big cars, so going from a cruise ship to a fishing boat is really hard to accept.

    In time, I am thinking of only driving my Fleetwood on special occasions. I really want to preserve it. With gas holding steady around $4.00 where I live, it's starting to cost me a lot of money every month. So a little beater is in the picture soon.

    I wish Cadillac also added a Temp Gauge in the Fleetwoods, including miles to empty, and Instant MPG. The Devilles had all of that cool stuff on the display. You can check the exact engine temperature on the Fleetwoods by going into diagnostic mode on the climate control display. By pressing either 7 or 8, it will tell you. But who wants to go through all that trouble?

    Cadillac must of used really crappy quality vinyl for all the dashes to have a serious cracking problem.
    You`re welcome dude!
    I`m not aware of "all" the dashes having cracking problems.My '95 has no cracks at all and my '78 has just 1 small crack which can be repaired easily.If the owners just keep the dashes maintained with armour all or something similar,should be no cracks.
    There might be a way you can get the items you mentioned to display on your dash.There`s a trick posted here somewhere to reprogram the displays.It works for '94-'99 Deville`s for sure,might work for others too.I reprogrammed my '95 so coolant temp and rpms show on the display.It`s been 4 years since i reprogrammed it so i don`t remember how to do it now.
    The reason the Fleetwoods might not have all the items you mentioned on display is these cars were mainly bought new by elderly buyers who may not have wanted all the extra visual distractions on the display.Elderly people have slightly slower reaction times,so if they are looking at all the extra visual info on the display "while driving",accidents may have resulted.
    That being said,maybe Cadillac just wanted to save a few bucks per Fleetwood by keeping the display simple and basic.
    Gas is around $4.00 here in Michigan too,so i drive my '95 Deville more now since it gets great highway mileage.My '78 with the big 425 V8 is a real gulper.
    Very good decision for you to want to preserve your Fleetwood.That bodystyle was really the last of the "true" long/wide body luxury land yachts---225 inches long and very wide.
    Enjoy your big Caddy!

  11. #41
    turbojimmy's Avatar
    turbojimmy is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Quote Originally Posted by pompste View Post
    You`ve got great taste in Caddy rides for such a young man!
    What he said.

    Friday afternoon I was waiting to pick my kids up at their bus stop in the limo when I saw a black car roll up next to me out of the corner of my eye. I turned, and it was anothe r black Fleetwood (a '95). He put down his window and said "hey - nice car!". I went to put my window down and it didn't work :-p. But I got out and we talked for a bit. The kid must have been like 17 or 18. It was a nice example, with chrome wheels and the Brougham package. It was LOUD though, but not aftermarket exhaust type loud. Had some leaks. I got to thinking how cool it would have been to have something like that in high school.

  12. #42
    thesameguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    I've owned exactly two Cadillacs ('67 Fleetwood, '07 CTS-V) but it's interesting to read this thread. From my perspective, Cadillac went wrong in the '70s. I completely agree with whoever it was up there that said Cadillac should have kept its own technology. I think the moment Cadillac started sharing GM parts bins was the moment it all started falling apart. Partly it was because GM took the wind out of Cadillac's sails - I mean, why buy a Cadillac when a Buick or Olds is essentially the same car for much less? But mostly it was because sharing parts immediately made Cadillac a victim to GM cost-cutting. If Chevy needed a cheaper doodad to make the numbers work, and Cadillac used that doodad they ended up with the cheaper part too. High-line luxury cars should contain no cheap parts! If you ever have the opportunity, dismantle a '90s Audi. STUNNING attention to detail there. It's no wonder they are the gold standard in modern automotive interiors.

    The last Fleetwoods were parts bin cars, assembled out of whatever Cadillac could scrounge up. From 20' away the cars looked *superb* - really a great expression of Cadillac style in the '90s. They still look great today, and IMHO that's saying something for a domestic car. But the devil is in the details, and while a '90s 7-series BMW still feels pretty good on the inside, a '90s Fleetwood still feels... cheap. Obviously Cadillac was suffering a huge identity crisis, trying to retain their luxo-barge heritage while competing with sport sedan Europeans, but IMHO the Fleetwood executed neither aspect well. An oddball mix of traditional values, modern imperatives, and GM parts. I think they are an amazing used-car value (what's not to love about a plushy, V8-powered RWD beast?) but I don't imagine sales were a slam-dunk on the showroom floor. Not when you're competing against aluminum, DOHC, unibody technomarvels like BMW and Mercedes were selling.

    I think everyone has to accept modern luxury car buyers want "taut." The land yacht concept is essentially dead... even Mercedes' Maybach couldn't make a go of it. And, to that end, I think modern Cadillac is doing a very good job. They've been very good about maintaining unique products that really bring value to the Cadillac brand. Buying a 2012 Cadillac means (with the exception of the XLR/SRX) you are not buying a tarted up Chevy, and that's a huge positive. Just like with the last Fleetwoods, though, they REALLY need to shore up the quality control and their attention to detail. There were lots of glaring errors in my V that you just wouldn't find in a 3-series or C-class.

    Anyway, to reel this back in - the '94-'96 Fleetwood should have been more like the '00 DHS. That was a pretty good car all around, although just slightly behind the times. But if those values had been put into the Fleetwood Cadillac would have had something. Early Cadillacs were always associated with cutting-edge technology and second to none execution, but those last Fleetwoods brought very little to the table to impress buyers. They were competent, but not impressive. And, a tow package? On a Cadillac? WTF?

  13. #43
    SDCaddyLacky's Avatar
    SDCaddyLacky is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    I actually feel that the 94-99 Devilles are more unique to Cadillac, than the Fleetwoods are. My friend owned a 94 Cadillac Deville Concourse with the Northstar engine. It had real zebrano wood trim, comfortable seats and was very fast off the line, and decent quality interior that seemed a bit better than my Fleetwood. I love the 4.6 Northstars regardless of what most people might say about them, the only reason why they sucked is because the crazy high head gasket failure rate.

    Other than that, the car drove nice, it was really smooth from what I remember. It had a lot of legroom, at times I thought maybe more than the Fleetwoods! Lol

    My favorite part of that car was all the sophistication, the technology that went into it, the dash display all make the Fleetwoods seemed so ancient in comparison. I couldn't believe when he said that the car came stock with 11 speakers that sounded awesome BTW! The suspension was road sensing which also made a difference in the ride quality.

    The Fleetwoods did get the short end of the stick. Cadillac focused heavily on the new Deville's since it was their bread and butter, so the Fleetwoods were left alone to die off since sales were so bad. I mean I still can't believe that Cadillac didn't even offer "Real Wood Trim" as an option. Or just added real wood trim in the Brougham Package.

    I believe all American cars of this era (90's) had really bad interiors compared to Zee German cars and Japo-nese. American auto's have gotten much better in last 5 years, and are on par if not better than what Japan is producing.

    What is done is done, I'm finished harping on what Cadillac should of done with the 93-96 FWB's, all that we can do now is customize what we want in our Fleetwoods. Sometime next year I plan on replacing all the fake wood trim, with real wood. Going to have shop custom make em for me. This will eliminate the creaking sound from the plastic wood trim. I also want to still add some nice chrome trim that is done right. Chrome on the air vents, around the wood trim on the door panels, and maybe even add a couple of rear map lights that are on the C piller like the older Broughams have.

    They are ways to improve the looks and feel of the interior, and also make it higher quality, it's a matter off how much you are willing to spend to make the interior as nice as possible. Since GM crap out on us, it's our job to make it better.

  14. #44
    Aron9000's Avatar
    Aron9000 is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    ^ I'm actually glad Cadillac didn't put any effort into making the Fleetwood "high tech". All that high tech Northstar, CVRSS, CAN-BUS, state of the art stuff in the 90's was poorly executed. Poorly executed is being generous, you couldn't give me a Northstar car. Not only was the engineering flawed, the quality control on those cars were crap.

    Honestly I feel like our Fleetwoods are built better, those N* cars have just as many quirky but different bad build quality issues. Warping dash pads, tailights filling with water(90's Seville), trim not lining up(90's Devilles), water in the trunk(90's Seville), poorly fitting interior plastics, rattles, etc.
    Destroyer and Destroyer like this.

  15. #45
    Stingroo's Avatar
    Stingroo is offline Wagon/Audio Enthusiast
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    Re: How GM should have done the 94-96 Fleetwood

    Okay, I've been refraining, but I'll throw my two cents in:

    Why do people complain about fake wood in interiors? How often are you really going to touch it? What do you do at stop lights, pause and grope the trim around your instrument panel and radio? Nobody does that. "Oh my god, the fabric that my A pillars are covered in is so terrible." WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING IT? I never understood half of the complaints about car interiors that everyone else just automatically starts giving whenever a car is discussed. The leather seats are comfortable, the steering wheel feels good in your hands, and all the switchgear is easy to understand and use. What more do you need?

    Personally I like the simplicity of the 93-96 Fleetwood interior, just like I like the simplicity of my wagon's interior. Everything is easily reached from the driver's seat, and that's fine with me. (Disclaimer: my dash does rattle because it was broken by a PO, I'm fixing that, but honestly I rarely hear it over the exhaust anyway - and I like it that way )

    So, interior gropers, why do you fondle your vehicles so?

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