Cadillac Owners Forum banner

Would a Cadillac super car be bad for General Motors?

7K views 60 replies 23 participants last post by  gdwriter 
#1 ·
If you're going to sell your most expensive car out of your entry level division, then what exactly is the point of your high end division? If Cadillac were to build a car that's faster than the Corvette and price it accordingly, would that hurt sales?

 
See less See more
1
#3 ·
People buy Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Maserati - many low production supercars. It might just give Cadillac a leg up in the domestic pecking order. I would most definitely be interested in a no-holds-barred Cadillac offering in the $80,000 - $120,000 range. Chevrolet Division wold have a hissy fit. BUT, do it quickly - there's no denying that my reflexes are slowing, regardless of how much exercise and driving practice I do.

.................and NOT with copycat old Lamborghini doors - even the Italians finally saw the light..................
 
#7 ·
Cadillac has tried that price bracket twice before, and failed. The XLR was a hell of a lot more car than the Allante though, I'll give it that. It just wasn't as nice inside as a Benz SL and that was its real undoing IMO.

Anyways, I think we are talking like $300,000 carbon fiber supercar here for Cadillac. Less than 5,000 cars for the whole production run. I would love to see a Ferrari beater from Cadillac, the angry wedge arts and science styling would look bad ass on a mid-engined supercar. I'd really like to see a radical departure from the LS based pushrod v8 as well, something that's DOCH and revs to 9k rpms.
 
#6 ·
I honestly just can't see it. Maybe it's because I'm a Chevy fan boy. Maybe it's because my generation generally thinks of Cadillacs as old peopley. I just don't see a supercar bearing the wreath and crest going over very well.

A super-sedan? Sure. A true honest-to-goodness supercar? Not really.
 
#9 ·
Cadillac should try to shoot for this supercar market segment, and that means no Corvette redux. Something totally unique to Cadillac....mid engined, V/10-V/12....AWD perhaps....something meant to compete with the Murcielagos, not the Mercedes SL.
 
#15 ·
1) The public is that dumb. Never underestimate the stupidity of the public.

2) How many concepts has Cadillac unvieled that haven't made it to production? Teasing the public by showing the Sixteen/Cien/Converj and then not following through? Granted, the Evoq and Imaj were made it to production (in drastically altered forms). What's the point in offering a concept with no attempt to produce?

A Cadillac supercar really is no different than the Dodge supercar - the Viper. Virtually no market research was done before the Viper was greenlit. A little number crunching showed that the program probably wouldn't lose money. The Viper, in turn, got people excited in the Dodge brand. And not just consumers; investors as well. (Just to cite sources: this is all from Bob Lutz's book)

It didn't hurt that Dodge had a new design theme (cab forward) and some hot products at the time; not unlike Cadillac does now (the DTS isn't officially halted the production run, but you and I both know the XTS is coming so I don't think your DTS comment is very relevant). Hopefully the XTS will be everything needed and more in a replacement for the STS/DTS. Halo cars don't have as much meaning as they used to, but neither do brands anymore. But the Viper helped stir up some excitement for the Dodge brand and Chrysler company, which it needed at the time.
 
#16 · (Edited)
1) Good point
2)Average story of a concept, from ANY brand. Typically, concepts are NOT built with future plans for production. They are merely a presentation of the manufacturers capabilities and upcoming technology and design.
3) Dodge Viper? Corvette competition? What about the XLR? Cadillac already covers this segment, which is well below supercar territory.

Also, remember, Chrysler has been a financial wreck for decades, including during the Viper's lifespan. The Viper didn't save Chrysler's name. If any single product did at that time, it was the Neon or the Caravan...neither were high end supercars and neither owe anything to the Viper.

You did correctly use the word "hopefully" in the DTS/XTS writeup :thumbsup:
 
#19 ·
I would have no interest in another rendition of the XLR, or some other two seat exotic. Cadillac should make a really first class personal luxury car and make it worth the $150,000 to $200,000. price tag. Something that would really standout from the crowd. It has been a very long time since any American maker has produced an honest to goodness "Luxury" car. Cadillac needs to make a car that would put in the leagues with the best the world has to off. This type of car is never a money maker, but is needed to raise the stature of Cadillac back to truly world class. The fourth and fifth generation Sevilles were a great attempt achieving a very good personal luxury car. But today a great deal more in the way of refinement, quality materials and build quality are required to make a true luxury car. At $45,000-$50,000., almost twenty years ago, these cars were breaking ground not attempted since the 1950's with the Eldorado Brougham and the Continental Mark II. Today the $70,000 to $90,000. is province of the upper middle class buyer, Cadillac needs to produce a car that will suit the true upper income desire for uniqueness and unavailability to the mere salaried rich! Work with the "Sixteen" concept and bring out something to really wow the world, not some "exotic" toy for the new dot comers!
 
#20 ·
Halo cars draw outside interest and give a brand the opporunity to show off its engineering muscle. A halo car for a luxury brand, however, has different goals.

GM already has supercar-level versions of the Corvette.

As for the Viper, the brakes, steering, and suspension trickled down to other Chrysler products including the Intrepid, the same way top-level features found in Cadillacs have slowly wandered into Chevrolets and Buicks. Chrysler had some of the best-handling family cars of the 90s. In a corporation the size of Chrysler, the technology in a high end car doesnt exist in a vacuum. There is a valid business case for it, but its hard for a layman to understand how the numbers work.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Did the Ford GT hurt, help, or do nothing for Ford?

IF they did it right, sure, it would be awesome. Gov't Motors, however, is pretty well known for botching it.

They need to develop a worthy replacement for the N* for their $50-60,000 cars...and they need to put it in a better replacement for the DTS than the XTS/FTS/whateverthef-TS.

And THEN they need to get a "flagship" large sedan/coupe/vert done. They haven't successfully sold an $80-100,000 car (STS-V/XLR/XLR-V or inflation adjusted Allante).

All of that needs to happen before they start dicking around in the Ferrari/Lamborghini/Bentley/RR pool.

How idiotic would that be? Oh, here's my line of "economy" cars (ATS/CTS/SRX), my Buick rehash (XTS), my big ass trucks (Escalades) -- and for you 50 buyers out there, a $300,000 supercar.
 
#23 · (Edited)
The problem is that Chevrolet has a "lock" on the super performance stuff at GM. They hold it because even though they are the entry level division, they are the volume sales and profit division and they usually get what they want when it comes to boardroom bickering at GM. When Pontiac dabbled with the Fiero in the 80s, Chevrolet was FURIOUS that it was doing that and constantly brought GM upper management to bear down on Pontiac, forcing them to make the Fiero a half baked, watered down vehicle. By the time Pontiac got it "somewhat" right, 4 years after introduction, the car was toast.

If Cadillac had a proprietary V-8 that it wasn't sharing with other divisions, that made more horses than the current Chevy V-8's you'd hear the scream nationwide. The great GM badge engineering efforts of the 80s and 90s benefited Chevy above every other division, and they are not about to give that up without a fight.

If GM doesn't make Cadillac the Diamond that it used to be, eventually it will be down to two divisions, Chevy and Cadillac, and Cadillac will be mostly a retired folks car. Not good.
 
#24 ·
Problem with a six figure caddy is caddy isnt the same caddy that could have pulled it off in the 20s , back then they were right there with rolls, pierce and duesenberg

the day caddy had to share platforms and parts with a chevy was they day that went out the window ....

then again bently does pertty well sharing bolts with a vw golf ...

so maybe...but a hyper car ? markets alredy got too damed many with koingsegg, pagani , ferarri and lambo .
why not go somewhere no one is .....the 1930s ....an all alumium and carbon fiber 1935 cadillac closed car , with modern bits buried deep inside powered by a twin turbo 3 liter v16 for the front wheels and a chevy volt hybrid power train for the rears. and all the creature conforts of climate controll and such ...
 
#30 · (Edited)
The Corvette has been hindering the success of other GM vehicles in "better" divisions for a long time.. The Buick Grand National was very short lived.. The Cadillac XLR was very short lived.. I wonder what else was planned that had to be choked down on the account of the Corvette - a car sold out of GMs economy brand. Any car that can "one up" (or even be on par) with the Corvette is doomed from the beginning (as we have seen).

Is it really okay with all of us that the fastest, most powerful and most expensive automobile that General Motors sells is not sold out of the brand that's supposed to make the best vehicles that they make? Is GM even PROUD that the Corvette is a "Chevy"? Can you even FIND the Chevy badge on a Corvette?!







 
#59 ·
lulz

Eh. I think the XLR would have been a success if it weren't hindered by the Corvette..
The XLR was discontinued due to poor sales.
XLR was too expensive for what it was. That simple. otoh, the XLR-Vs are now in the $30k range, which is a bargain.


At the time, the LS2/6 weren't making any more hp than the 443 horse N* in the XLR anyway.
^supercharged. Don't forget there is still a large segment of performance enthusiasts who don't want anything to do with FI. Go ask the V2 guys about heat soak.

A pushrod LS9 is very uncommon and an engineering marvel...
Wow. I agree with you about something car-related. The LS9 is powerful and cost effective. And hp adders are relatively cheap.


by 1995 the corvette was supposed to be mid engine
they have been saying that since the C4. It will probably happen eventually. But "sources" say not the C7. Probably not even the C8.

I say if GM wants a mid-engined supercar, put it under the Caddy umbrella, not corvette.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top