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Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

5K views 58 replies 17 participants last post by  Lord Cadillac 
#1 ·
Ya know... I'm worried about gas prices.. I get this feeling we're going to be seeing rising prices for awhile - and a possibility that they may get REALLY high and stay there. Especially as the rest of the world stops using the dollar and a standard...

So.. There are some pretty good alternatives out there.. The new Hyundai Accent gets a combined 50 miles per gallon (amazing - it's not even a hybrid). The new Elantra gets 40. We all know about the Prius, Volt and Leaf or whatever..

Lexus has the CT 200h that gets over 40 miles per gallon - and that looks to be a pretty luxurious little car (soft surfaces, nice leather, nice instrumentation, etcetera).

What's there for us Cadillac owners? What if you're worried enough about gas prices (amongst everything else) that your next car is going to be a compact or subcompact? And what if you don't want to stop driving a Cadillac? Cadillac has distinct styling that you can't get anywhere else.. Inside and out..

I don't "like" the thoughts of a compact Cadillac - but I think it may be necessary.. Hell, if the sh*t does hit the fan and gas costs $6.00 per gallon or worse - I'd rather have a small Cadillac than a Prius - or even a Volt.

Any thoughts?
 
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#4 ·
Isn't that what the ATS is for?
 
#6 ·
Lexus isn't selling any CTs, despite fuel prices. However, in order to cement this segment and get it out of the way, the Evoq concept (I believe that's it) needs to be brought to fruition so that Cadillac has a version of the Volt. Because of the complete failure that was the Cimarron, a straight up Cadillac Cruze is just never going to fly again, despite the niceness of the Verano. They honestly WOULD be better off using the BLS because at least it's based on something not perceived as an entry level college car elsewhere within GM.
 
#9 ·
Besides the STS and CTS, they're nothing but better rebadges anyway... SRX, Lade, and DTS are all blatant rebadges, albeit of higher priced models...

A decked ?TS that was Verano based, that was say $5K more than a decked Verano would probably sell, if it had the top engine, and unique enough styling...IF gas got bad enough...
 
#7 ·
Even an entry level Cadillac should have a level of feel and apointments taht sets it apart from the competition. Another parts bin disaster like the Cimarron, or even the Catera, would be a disaster for Cadillac. As in the case of the Catera, even a decent car that is perceived to be a "fake" Cadillac but a decent Pontiac would be detrimental to Cadillac's reclaiming "luxurt car" status!
 
#8 ·
I don't believe the CT 200h is available yet...

I think the Buick Verano could be a good compact Cadillac with the right interior and exterior styling. As times get tougher here in America, people will disagree with a small Cadillac less and less. Right now, not so much...
 
#11 ·
The Cimarron was also a steaming load of crap. If these new cars aren't, a lot of that stigma will go away. And as hypnotized as all these lemmings are w/everything green...it'll probably be a huge hit...
 
#13 ·
That's why I think it would be easier to just sneak the platform in under the Converj concept (thanks billc83). Kill two birds with one stone... Gives Cadillac its proper treehugger cred, and allows them to have that smaller car without it having to be a DIRECT copy of the Cruze, but rather just a loose implementation of the Cruze's platform (which underpins the Volt which the Converj is in turn based on).
 
#14 ·
I'm fine w/that...
 
#15 ·
A smaller Cadillac would be competing directly with the 3-Series. Basing it on the Cruze/Volt platform wouldn't be kosher.

The Converj was really a nice looking car, and had similar dimensions to the 3-Series BMW. They should just take the body, plot it on top of a RWD chassis, and instant 3-Series competitor. Imagine this sexy beast, but RWD and with no green pretentions:



If Cadillac wanted to go smaller, they can build that micro-machine with the Lambo doors. Make that FWD - it'll compete against the sales dud 1-Series where FWD/RWD wouldn't be as much of an issue. Imagine this but stretched a bit to make it a four seater:



And you're quite welcome, Playdrv4me.
 
#37 ·
Compact Cadillac is blasphemy. It brings back memories of Cimarron and Catera. We all know what happened there. I don't think a (Lord forgive me) compact Cadillac will sell.
Consider the fact that Cadillac NEEDS to compete in the world market. This is the future. Since Cadillac is going to need to build these cars anyway (otherwise, they're just giving up on sales outside the United States - which is brand suicide), why not make them available here as well?

Cadillac does not need a compact car IMO. Throw a diesel in the ATS and let it get 35-40mpg.
That's not a bad idea.. But as gas prices get higher and higher - which they will - quite possibly never to return to what we consider normal - 35mpg is not going to cut it. 40? Not too bad..

In regards to the Lexus HS - it's no wonder if failed as a luxury Prius. The Prius gets 51/48, the HS gets 35/34.. What's the sense? The CT gets 43/40, looks much better inside and out and it supposed to be fun to drive. It's NOT going to be a failure...

Who'd pay the extra money for the Lexus "Prius"? It's just not worth it...
 
#17 ·
both those cars make me want to puke. the cadillac smart car is just wrong- in so many ways I cant begin to explain (well I could, but the post would be a page long)
as for the one thats cobalt sized, it would be ok, but it needs to be at least 2 feet longer, more low slung, rwd, have a rock solid 6 cylinder (4's in a caddy would make me puke) and have an actual trunk. hell, might as well scrap that one and start from scratch.
 
#18 ·
Cadillac does not need a compact car IMO. Throw a diesel in the ATS and let it get 35-40mpg. BMW sells a smaller displacement 3 series diesel in Europe that gets 40mpg+, the one they sell in the US market is the larger displacement performance diesel and only gets 30-35mpg.

People associate Cadillac as a larger car, a car of substance and presence. Slapping the badge on any FWD econocar, no matter how nice, is a slap in the face to the heritage of the brand.
 
#21 ·
As Bob Dylan said, "The times, they are a changing."

Fact is, Cadillac was associated with large land yachts decades ago. They've been trying to change that image for years. The American automotive dichotomy is moving towards smaller cars with higher gas prices attacking one flank and CAFE attacking the other. It's an inevitability. It doesn't mean that bigger cars will go away.

Telling someone you drive a compact car used to mean you were in a Pacer, Gremlin, Vega, or other P.O.S. No one will look down on someone for driving a Fit (an Aveo, on the other hand...).

People associate Cadillac as a larger car, a car of substance and presence. Slapping the badge on any FWD econocar, no matter how nice, is a slap in the face to the heritage of the brand.
Substance and presence is not mutually exclusive with large and RWD (though it helps), and Cadillac doesn't have BMW's RWD-only heritage. That can be seen as a good thing. I'd guess a majority of consumers could care less which wheels do the work, and the only reason I brought up the Cadismart concept was if Cadillac really felt the need to go after the 1-Series (with the ATS aiming at the 3-Series and CTS at the 5-Series). Yes, the Cadismart is probably smaller (I didn't actually look up any specs) but that's why I said lengthen it a bit.

Slapping a badge on a Cavalier and adding leather seats is a slap in the face. Putting some effort into a car to make it distinctive even though it may share the same platform is not. It's a tough line to walk, but it could be pulled off.

Then you'd have to make sure it's not stepping on Buick's toes, but that's a whole other problem GM's paying marketing people to think of while I play armchair-CEO.
 
#23 ·
Eh, BMW has been in the shitter since 2002 IMO. The ONLY reason I still like this company is that they haven't pissed in the Cheerios of the 3 series owners with weird styling or limp handling. In fact they've made the 3 series better than ever with the new turbo inline six motors. The M models have been pretty sweet over the past 10 years as well, even if the previous gen M5 and M6 are still a bit strange looking.

As for their new FWD entry level, I see this being a flop like the Audi A3, BMW E36 318ti, Benz W203 c230 hatchback thingy.
 
#26 ·
Nope.

Why water down the fine name of Cadillac with small vehicles built for a trend and a current need that will diminish as time passes. Cadillac tried this in '82 with the Cimarron and it failed and only added to Cadillacs' troubles in the mid '80s. They've been out of production since 1988 and we're still making jokes about them!

Cadillac is about making big luxury cars, sporty luxury cars. Cars that are fun to drive, fun to own and fun to dream about owning. Nobody dreams about owning an econocar. Leave that stuff to the other brands. Besides, it seems as though most people that are able to afford a new Cadillac are well financed and would have the money for a few different cars, meaning they'd still have their Cadillac, but would able to afford a little puddle jumper to save gas.
 
#27 · (Edited)
It's a common mistake to automatically categorize a compact car as an "econocar". Those aren't necessarily synonymous.

Just like everyone else, Cadillac will need to prepare for the future, whatever that may be. Just because Cadillac was known for big luxury cars in the past doesn't mean it is guaranteed to succeed in continuing that tradition in the future. It's always about keeping up with the times. Living in the past for traditions sake or because "it's what they are about" is downright silly.

Advancement and progress: they are good things. As a business in need of profit, it's important to remain competitive, not traditional.

The DTS was very traditional for Cadillac, it's exactly "what they are about", look how well that did.
 
#28 ·
Yeah, I guess there's always the Audi A3, but that's only sold as a hatchback, and it doesn't sell well..
 
#31 ·
Lexus has very little history to draw on. As a result they have a unique advantage of being able to throw pretty much anything at the wall to see what sticks without offending any particular group of owners, and without putting off POTENTIAL buyers. As I mentioned before, the HS-250h has NOT been a good seller for Lexus, despite the assumption of most that an upscale Prius was sure to be a smash-hit for the brand. Even Lexus drivers have their limits, it would seem.

I don't think FWD would hurt anything, and I think that a car like the new Regal would have made an excellent Cadillac with a few tweaks. But to think that you can just re-skin a Cruze and have them fly off the lot is another thing entirely.
 
#32 ·
Cimarron. Catera. We've been here before, and it has yet to end well. Why? Because GM's bean counters will insist that the car be based off an existing compact platform and won't allocate the resources necessary to make the car unique enough or high-quality enough to be worth the price differential a Cadillac should command.

Compacts are not Cadillac's market. There's absolutely no reason to allocate resources in that direction. Not while the company is literally dying for want of a proper flagship.
 
#33 ·
Which brings up another key point... Start introducing SMALLER cars when you haven't yet even BEGUN to work on the vehicles that belong at the top of your model range, and you instantly come across as having lost your direction.

Infiniti seems to be the closest to Cadillac right now in terms of model mix, and they're actually doing quite well withOUT anything smaller than the G37. I'm sure they're considering it now, but they certainly don't need it.

Aside from a cheaper cost of entry, I really don't even see a point to a smaller car anyway. There's technology out there (mild hybrid, full hybrid, electric, diesel) to squeeze impressive levels of fuel economy out of the car platforms they've already got coming. Throwing some 4 cylinder rebadge out there just comes across as an easy cop-out.
 
#39 ·
Let's consider why anyone would buy a luxury compact. It's not because america is cramped and you need a small car to navigate like it is in Europe, nor is it trendy to own a small, cute car. The only reason why any luxury car companies are considering selling a compact car is due to the mileage and the price of fuel. If you could give someone the luxury of a reasonably sized car with great mileage (hybrid, electric, diesel) then that car would be the sales champion. That's why the 3 Series diesel is so popular, and the E Class diesel, etc etc....because you get great mileage and you don't make any sacrifices (aside from a slightly noisier engine and a different powerband) to get it.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Brilliant. I don't understand where the concept comes from that an efficient car has to be a shoebox. Figure out how to make an average sized car achieve higher fuel economy numbers and shit or get off the damn pot, but a compact is NOT the answer.

To put it a little more succinctly... If the situation really ever gets SO bad that the fuel economy of a car like say, an ES300... or a CTS... or a G37, is still insufficient to offset the cost of fuel prices, this country is going to have FAR larger problems on its hands than how small we can make a car. The SUVs I like so much? Ok, I get that. But when you can't drive a mid-size car because you fear going to the pump, you may as well just give up driving altogether. In a country that is 3000 miles wide, by however many thousand miles up and down, rollerskate cars are NEVER going to be a long term solution.
 
#42 ·
Well yeah, but the 3 Series isn't a compact like a Buick Verona is. The 3 Series isn't that much smaller than a CTS.
 
#45 ·
Well, the CTS has gotten heavier and bigger, so now the CTS is encroaching on 5-series territory, making room for a smaller Cadillac. One thing that helped sell the CTS even back in 2003 was that it offered near-5-series space for 3-series money.

The 3-series really is a lot smaller inside. EPA calls the 3-series a compact and calls the CTS a midsize.
 
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