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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts? in General Discussion; Originally Posted by drewsdeville Using Sal's example which drives his question, Lexus is a popular luxury brand who's image is ...
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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewsdeville View Post
    Using Sal's example which drives his question, Lexus is a popular luxury brand who's image is anything but tainted by it's compact luxury offerings.
    Lexus has very little history to draw on. As a result they have a unique advantage of being able to throw pretty much anything at the wall to see what sticks without offending any particular group of owners, and without putting off POTENTIAL buyers. As I mentioned before, the HS-250h has NOT been a good seller for Lexus, despite the assumption of most that an upscale Prius was sure to be a smash-hit for the brand. Even Lexus drivers have their limits, it would seem.

    I don't think FWD would hurt anything, and I think that a car like the new Regal would have made an excellent Cadillac with a few tweaks. But to think that you can just re-skin a Cruze and have them fly off the lot is another thing entirely.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    Ya know... I'm worried about gas prices.. I get this feeling we're going to be seeing rising prices for awhile - and a possibility that they may get REALLY high and stay there. Especially as the rest of the world stops using the dollar and a standard...

    So.. There are some pretty good alternatives out there.. The new Hyundai Accent gets a combined 50 miles per gallon (amazing - it's not even a hybrid). The new Elantra gets 40. We all know about the Prius, Volt and Leaf or whatever..

    Lexus has the CT 200h that gets over 40 miles per gallon - and that looks to be a pretty luxurious little car (soft surfaces, nice leather, nice instrumentation, etcetera).

    What's there for us Cadillac owners? What if you're worried enough about gas prices (amongst everything else) that your next car is going to be a compact or subcompact? And what if you don't want to stop driving a Cadillac? Cadillac has distinct styling that you can't get anywhere else.. Inside and out..

    I don't "like" the thoughts of a compact Cadillac - but I think it may be necessary.. Hell, if the sh*t does hit the fan and gas costs $6.00 per gallon or worse - I'd rather have a small Cadillac than a Prius - or even a Volt.

    Any thoughts?
    Cimarron. Catera. We've been here before, and it has yet to end well. Why? Because GM's bean counters will insist that the car be based off an existing compact platform and won't allocate the resources necessary to make the car unique enough or high-quality enough to be worth the price differential a Cadillac should command.

    Compacts are not Cadillac's market. There's absolutely no reason to allocate resources in that direction. Not while the company is literally dying for want of a proper flagship.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by 77CDV View Post
    Cimarron. Catera. We've been here before, and it has yet to end well. Why? Because GM's bean counters will insist that the car be based off an existing compact platform and won't allocate the resources necessary to make the car unique enough or high-quality enough to be worth the price differential a Cadillac should command.

    Compacts are not Cadillac's market. There's absolutely no reason to allocate resources in that direction. Not while the company is literally dying for want of a proper flagship.
    Which brings up another key point... Start introducing SMALLER cars when you haven't yet even BEGUN to work on the vehicles that belong at the top of your model range, and you instantly come across as having lost your direction.

    Infiniti seems to be the closest to Cadillac right now in terms of model mix, and they're actually doing quite well withOUT anything smaller than the G37. I'm sure they're considering it now, but they certainly don't need it.

    Aside from a cheaper cost of entry, I really don't even see a point to a smaller car anyway. There's technology out there (mild hybrid, full hybrid, electric, diesel) to squeeze impressive levels of fuel economy out of the car platforms they've already got coming. Throwing some 4 cylinder rebadge out there just comes across as an easy cop-out.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
    If it's a common mistake, then it's an even more common perception, and that's a problem for a luxury brand.
    This right here ends the thread and is why Cadillac should never offer another compact car.

    That is unless they want to remake the 2 seat XLR with the same LS series based powertrain as a Corvette, I would be all about that "compact" Cadillac. Really a 2 seat luxury roaster should be the only small car segment Cadillac should chase.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
    Lexus has very little history to draw on. As a result they have a unique advantage of being able to throw pretty much anything at the wall to see what sticks without offending any particular group of owners, and without putting off POTENTIAL buyers. As I mentioned before, the HS-250h has NOT been a good seller for Lexus, despite the assumption of most that an upscale Prius was sure to be a smash-hit for the brand. Even Lexus drivers have their limits, it would seem.
    Hmm...I missed the part where a reskinned Cruze was the suggested answer :/ .

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by drewsdeville View Post
    Hmm...I missed the part where a reskinned Cruze was the suggested answer :/ .
    The Lexus HS hybrids are heavily dressed up Corollas. That's where the Cruze comparison comes in.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Compact Cadillac is blasphemy. It brings back memories of Cimarron and Catera. We all know what happened there. I don't think a (Lord forgive me) compact Cadillac will sell.
    Consider the fact that Cadillac NEEDS to compete in the world market. This is the future. Since Cadillac is going to need to build these cars anyway (otherwise, they're just giving up on sales outside the United States - which is brand suicide), why not make them available here as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aron9000 View Post
    Cadillac does not need a compact car IMO. Throw a diesel in the ATS and let it get 35-40mpg.
    That's not a bad idea.. But as gas prices get higher and higher - which they will - quite possibly never to return to what we consider normal - 35mpg is not going to cut it. 40? Not too bad..

    In regards to the Lexus HS - it's no wonder if failed as a luxury Prius. The Prius gets 51/48, the HS gets 35/34.. What's the sense? The CT gets 43/40, looks much better inside and out and it supposed to be fun to drive. It's NOT going to be a failure...

    Who'd pay the extra money for the Lexus "Prius"? It's just not worth it...
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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    Consider the fact that Cadillac NEEDS to compete in the world market. This is the future. Since Cadillac is going to need to build these cars anyway (otherwise, they're just giving up on sales outside the United States - which is brand suicide), why not make them available here as well?
    The same reason its dumb to sell the Escalade in Denmark. They might sell a dozen a year at the expense of their image. They're seen as fuel-thirsty pigs for drug dealers.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Let's consider why anyone would buy a luxury compact. It's not because america is cramped and you need a small car to navigate like it is in Europe, nor is it trendy to own a small, cute car. The only reason why any luxury car companies are considering selling a compact car is due to the mileage and the price of fuel. If you could give someone the luxury of a reasonably sized car with great mileage (hybrid, electric, diesel) then that car would be the sales champion. That's why the 3 Series diesel is so popular, and the E Class diesel, etc etc....because you get great mileage and you don't make any sacrifices (aside from a slightly noisier engine and a different powerband) to get it.
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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792 View Post
    Let's consider why anyone would buy a luxury compact. It's not because america is cramped and you need a small car to navigate like it is in Europe, nor is it trendy to own a small, cute car. The only reason why any luxury car companies are considering selling a compact car is due to the mileage and the price of fuel. If you could give someone the luxury of a reasonably sized car with great mileage (hybrid, electric, diesel) then that car would be the sales champion. That's why the 3 Series diesel is so popular, and the E Class diesel, etc etc....because you get great mileage and you don't make any sacrifices (aside from a slightly noisier engine and a different powerband) to get it.
    Brilliant. I don't understand where the concept comes from that an efficient car has to be a shoebox. Figure out how to make an average sized car achieve higher fuel economy numbers and shit or get off the damn pot, but a compact is NOT the answer.

    To put it a little more succinctly... If the situation really ever gets SO bad that the fuel economy of a car like say, an ES300... or a CTS... or a G37, is still insufficient to offset the cost of fuel prices, this country is going to have FAR larger problems on its hands than how small we can make a car. The SUVs I like so much? Ok, I get that. But when you can't drive a mid-size car because you fear going to the pump, you may as well just give up driving altogether. In a country that is 3000 miles wide, by however many thousand miles up and down, rollerskate cars are NEVER going to be a long term solution.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    The only good reason to make a luxury-ish car smaller is to give it sharper handling and reduce weight. Its why the BMW 3-series formula works so well, and the C-class doesn't.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Well yeah, but the 3 Series isn't a compact like a Buick Verona is. The 3 Series isn't that much smaller than a CTS.
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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    While my old '90 isn't exactly compact, it is quite small even by todays standards. I actually appreciate and prefer the car's relatively small size over all of my old cars. I find it more pleasing to drive in the city, it's easy to park and maneuver, it's cozy rather than cavernous and empty, and it's more than enough space for what I need. FWIW, it doesn't get any better mileage than most of my old cars either.

    This car has permanently turned me off from large sedans. I'm serious. I just like what it's small size has to offer from behind the wheel.

    There are many reasons to go for a compact luxury car over a full sized. You just need to be able to appreciate what a compact's offerings. If you can't appreciate them, or if they really don't apply to you, then fuel savings seems like it's the most obvious reason for them. I, for one, like the idea of luxury compacts, regardless of brand.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Lexus, as a brand, is not significantly associated with performance or driving pleasure. Its a different kind of customer with a different image to protect and maintain. Its still a high end demographic (income, education) envied by most of the industry, but a Lexus buyer tends to favor dependability, refinement, and gadgetry over handling, acceleration, and feedback. That's not what today's Cadillac is really about. Lexus swallowed up most of Mercedes, Lincoln, and Cadillac's customers in the 90s, if you recall, and Toyota as a whole is now faced with an aging customer base as a result. GM saw the writing on the wall and said it was do or die for Cadillac, so the brand had to change dramatically.

    Modern Cadillac is defined by three main characteristics:
    1. Comfort
    2. Art and Science design, for better or worse
    3. Performance

    If #1 is compromised, #3 has to make up the difference to maintain value for the customer. Its why the BMW 3-series is so consistently successful -- the car's smaller size is a part of its performance, rather than just being a cheap downsized version of the 5- and 7-series. Its why Mercedes is not currently offering its B-class in the US.

    The Buick Verano's price tag is low enough to move metal, and Buick is in the middle of finding a new identity in the absence of Pontiac and Saturn. Its a near-luxury brand with room to stretch from 20k to 45k. Cadillac isn't in the same position.

    Stuffing the Cruze with Cadillac furniture, as they did with the Equinox to create the SRX, like they did with the Saab 9-3 to create the BLS, isn't good enough to win over BMW owners, but I'm sure someone at GM is thinking about doing it anyway.

    The rear-drive ATS will likely take after the 3-series, so being a compact car will hopefully enhance the way it drives.


    So, to summarize:
    Tarted up Cruze will not work.
    RWD or AWD 1-series/3-series competitor will work.

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    Re: Cadillac Compact Car - What Are Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792 View Post
    Well yeah, but the 3 Series isn't a compact like a Buick Verona is. The 3 Series isn't that much smaller than a CTS.
    Well, the CTS has gotten heavier and bigger, so now the CTS is encroaching on 5-series territory, making room for a smaller Cadillac. One thing that helped sell the CTS even back in 2003 was that it offered near-5-series space for 3-series money.

    The 3-series really is a lot smaller inside. EPA calls the 3-series a compact and calls the CTS a midsize.

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