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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it... in General Discussion; The 1992-'96 Fleetwood is to Cadillac as the '98-2000 LS400 is to Lexus. Really the height of solid, well put ...
  1. #46
    Playdrv4me's Avatar
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    The 1992-'96 Fleetwood is to Cadillac as the '98-2000 LS400 is to Lexus. Really the height of solid, well put together build quality (for GM), top notch materials and that "solid hunk of steel" feel. I say "for GM" because they did still have their share of small problems... such as OptiSpark and the poor quality adhesive used on the cloth material attached to the pillar covers and of course the headliner.

  2. #47
    I~LUV~Caddys8792's Avatar
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Nah Ian, I never thought the Fleetwoods were that well built or built of great materials. I've seen various Caprices, Fleetwoods and Roadmasters with loose, rattly faux wood trim, cheap leather and hard plastics. Not a peak of construction and quality, but considering what else GM was putting out at the time, they weren't awful.
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  3. #48
    drewsdeville's Avatar
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    ^^^ I was going to say exactly the same thing. The Fleetwoods had that same GM "corporate" feel and styling as pretty much everything else they were producing at the time.

  4. #49
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    Stingroo is offline Wagon/Audio Enthusiast
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    I'll agree to that, actually. There were some small differences, but really, it's a B-body with extra rear legroom.


    But everyone here knows I loves me some B-bodies.


    And Ian I think you meant '94-96 to address your comments ('93 didn't have the LT1, and '92 was still the boxy version from 1980, albeit with a few updates).

  5. #50
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingroo View Post
    I've never thought about it that way, honestly. That actually makes sense.

    Though sometimes I think people like to bitch for the sake of bitching. But that's just my two-cents. I won't be in any position to buy a $50k+ car for quite awhile.
    Yeah I totally agree that there are a lot of people who have nothing better to do then complain and for these people nothing will ever be good enough. I bought the08 cts because despite all of this being a car guy i loved the 07 even with it's oddball issues. On the other hand these types of issues would be OK on a 11k aveo but not on ANYTHING more exspensive especially a cadillac. I mean where would hyundai/kia be if they still had these sorts of issue's? There growth would have been severely stunted if not stopped.

  6. #51
    Playdrv4me's Avatar
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Whoops, yes 'Roo I meant '94 to '96. I still stand by my statement though, if you compare a Fleetwood to modern day STS or especially to a comparable Crown Vic or Town Car of the time all the parts and pieces just felt heftier to me. The STS has plastics that flex when you push on them like so many things these days, hard leathers, etc. The CV and TC of that time didn't feel as if there was much substance to them, especially when closing the doors. It was that tinny Ford metal used on everything they made around that time. So yes, they probably still had rattles and quality problems, but I still consider them a height of manufacturing quality in many ways keeping in context the rest of what GM and Ford were putting out at that time.

    The only other GM product that I might give that designation to is the 1992, and ONLY the 1992 Seville and '92 and '93 Eldorado with the 4.9. The '92 STS Jesda had was an incredible testament to build quality as compared with the '98+.

    Now, let me reiterate that I am NOT asking for Cadillac to build another Fleetwood either. That car is a land yacht and that's what SUVs are for these days. Just a large V8 RWD sedan on par in size with its competition, with similar driving characteristics but without forgetting its comfort roots (a-la Equus/LS460) and without all those squeaky hollow plastics.

  7. #52
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
    Whoops, yes 'Roo I meant '94 to '96. I still stand by my statement though, if you compare a Fleetwood to modern day STS or especially to a comparable Crown Vic or Town Car of the time all the parts and pieces just felt heftier to me. The STS has plastics that flex when you push on them like so many things these days, hard leathers, etc. The CV and TC of that time didn't feel as if there was much substance to them, especially when closing the doors. It was that tinny Ford metal used on everything they made around that time. So yes, they probably still had rattles and quality problems, but I still consider them a height of manufacturing quality in many ways keeping in context the rest of what GM and Ford were putting out at that time.

    The only other GM product that I might give that designation to is the 1992, and ONLY the 1992 Seville and '92 and '93 Eldorado with the 4.9. The '92 STS Jesda had was an incredible testament to build quality as compared with the '98+.

    Now, let me reiterate that I am NOT asking for Cadillac to build another Fleetwood either. That car is a land yacht and that's what SUVs are for these days. Just a large V8 RWD sedan on par in size with its competition, with similar driving characteristics but without forgetting its comfort roots (a-la Equus/LS460) and without all those squeaky hollow plastics.
    I agree the fourth series Seville (at least STS) from 1992 thru 1995 had pretty decent build quality in both materials and assembly. Both the '93 and the '95 that I have had were decently put together and the materials, while not the fanciest or most expensive have stood the test of time (in the case of the '95 STS, 15 years and continuing) well. The fifth generation Sevilles were not only decontented, but showed cheapened materials,but also shoddier assembly standards. The fifth generation Sevilles have a more European driving dynamic, but somehow lack a certain "presence" in the way they drive and certainly in the way they come across. The 1998-'04 Sevilles were an attempt to more closely emulate a BMW 5 series and not to be a Cadillac per se. Of course it is all a matter of taste, but for American driving I prefer the driving dynamics of the 4th generation cars over that of the 5th generation Sevilles.

  8. #53
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Quote Originally Posted by orconn View Post
    First and foremost put the emphasis on quality, then on reliability and then on great, attractive exterior and interior designs. GM should become a leader again in styling, if they have to copy someone copy VW/Audi not the next "Bangle-Butted" fad from a mislead maker.

    Each division should be distinctive and have a clearly identified automotive objective and should have a suitable flagship with the parameters of the division's market/performance segment.

    Cadillac should have high quality products suitable to satisfying customers in "executive/luxury" segment. It should also have a product that can capture acceptance and desirability among the world's power elite. Not some hokey frosted truck, but an luxury passenger car that conveys the prestige of the owner or his office.

    Buick should build cars suitable to the upper middle class socially and economically. This lineup should include some perform ace models like the "Wildcats" of the sixties. Buick not market cars meant for middle income folks leave that segment to Chevrolet.

    Chevrolet should have a broad spectrum of vehicles suitable for the various tasks middle class families are called upon to perform, but not to include trucks (leave trucks to GMC).
    Very well said!!!!!

  9. #54
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    The middle and working class buys tons of trucks. Would seem silly to not offer those at a Chevy dealer.

  10. #55
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda View Post
    The middle and working class buys tons of trucks. Would seem silly to not offer those at a Chevy dealer.
    And...there's this. Chevy trucks outsell the crap outta GMC:
    YE 2008, Units Sold

    Chevy Silverado 465,065
    Chevy Avalanche 35,003
    GMC Sierra 168,544
    Dodge Ram 245,840
    Ford F-Series 515,513
    Toyota Tundra 137,249
    Nissan Titan 34,053

    Eliminating Chevy trucks would be fraught with dumbassery.

  11. #56
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Hire Jill Wagner now. In the late 60's, Oldsmobile crawled out of a luxury-only reputation with a Hurst/Olds (shifter) ad campaign that needed a boost in performance recognition. Cue in Linda Vaughn. It also secured a piece of performance history with not only a good luxury performance reputation, but a pretty face to carry the torch and re-light the flame (even after the Oldsmobile production ended).

  12. #57
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Jill Wagner is the only lamentable casualty in the death of Mercury...


  13. #58
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    I'd smash.

  14. #59
    DouglasJRizzo is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Less front drive. Less badge engineering. Less engine sharing.

  15. #60
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    Re: Here's your chance to suggest something directly to GM - don't waste it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
    Jill Wagner is the only lamentable casualty in the death of Mercury...

    Suddenly, I have the strangest desire to go purchase a Mercury Topaz.
    "They call Alabama the Crimson Tide, call me Deacon Blues."

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