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Community Lounge, Introductions and General Discussion Discussion, Aside from Cadillacs? in General Discussion; Well, unlike some of you old farts (lol), I actually would not mind owning a Jeep. I picked a classic ...
  1. #31
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Well, unlike some of you old farts (lol), I actually would not mind owning a Jeep. I picked a classic convertible instead because I have a thing for those but a Jeep was in contention when I was looking for a "beach car". Around here the Jeep is a "me too" car whereas I haven't seen another '67 Cutlass vert in many years (save for one at a used car lot). The Jeep is definately more youth oriented and not practical for most of us 35+ year olds with families but it is a fun ride and a ride I would consider more as a toy than a daily car.

  2. #32
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Its fun to tool around town in. Parking is easy and the dog enjoys it.

  3. #33
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdwriter View Post
    Nah, I won't kill you. Or even beat you up. I actually respect the Wrangler for it's unmatched capabilities as a 4X4 and for staying so true to the original. However, I would find one to be a nightmare as a daily driver, noisy and uncomfortable and not particularly nimble or responsive on the winding roads I enjoy.

    As I like extended road trips, I would probably feel beat up from the rough ride and my ears ringing from the wind noise after several hours in an open Jeep at highway speeds. Rick obviously thinks that's fun; I think it's torture. But he thinks my FWD, automatic Seville is boring, and I think it's great fun to drive as well as an exceptional high-speed touring car.

    As for makes other than Cadillac, Chevrolet is a given since I own one and I'll have Betty until the day I die. And there are Corvettes of different generations that I'd like to own: a '65 small block, a '70 and a C6.

    I'll add Buick to the list because if I could buy a second classic car, it would be a first-generation Riviera, preferably a '65 Gran Sport with a dual-quad Nailhead.

    And if I didn't have to worry about the cost of maintenance and repairs, I'd include BMW. My friends' Z3 that I spent a weekend with is probably the most fun-to-drive car I've driven in nearly 30 years of driving. And I've always liked the 1998-2005 E46 3-Series. The current generation has grown on me.
    I think it comes down to what each vehicle is made for. If I want to go in the mud and on the rocks, I'm taking a 4x4 Wrangler, hands down. If I'm taking a long road trip, or even just daily driving, I'll take any "boring" FWD Northstar Cadillac any day. I don't know about you, man, but 300HP isn't boring to me.

  4. #34
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by 93DevilleUSMC View Post
    I think it comes down to what each vehicle is made for. If I want to go in the mud and on the rocks, I'm taking a 4x4 Wrangler, hands down. If I'm taking a long road trip, or even just daily driving, I'll take any "boring" FWD Northstar Cadillac any day. I don't know about you, man, but 300HP isn't boring to me.
    Exactly. I have zero interest in going into mud and rocks. My idea of roughing it is a Motel 6.

    My Seville has 275 hp, and I enjoy every single one of them. Since a regular dose of WOT is recommended for the Northstar, I follow that advice. There is something extremely exhilarating about feeling the push back in your seat from the thrust of a high-performance engine doing what it was designed to do.

    I would definitely enjoy a convertible, whether it were a '64 Cadillac or a Miata. But definitely not a Jeep. At least not for me.

  5. #35
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    BMW, Lincoln, MB, Isuzu, Jeep, Oldsmobile... I'm drawn to their vehicles.

  6. #36
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdwriter View Post
    Exactly. I have zero interest in going into mud and rocks. My idea of roughing it is a Motel 6.

    My Seville has 275 hp, and I enjoy every single one of them. Since a regular dose of WOT is recommended for the Northstar, I follow that advice. There is something extremely exhilarating about feeling the push back in your seat from the thrust of a high-performance engine doing what it was designed to do.

    I would definitely enjoy a convertible, whether it were a '64 Cadillac or a Miata. But definitely not a Jeep. At least not for me.
    LOL you would hate my idea of good training, then. If I haven't gotten greasy or dirty, I haven't been working or playing hard enough. But you are right, the Northstar may be one of the most outright fun engines ever put in a Cadillac. I have never driven a Northstar Cadillac and not had a grin on my face at one point or the other. It didn't matter if it was a DTS or an ETC.

  7. #37
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdwriter View Post
    I know.

    The gauntlet has been thrown down. We'll see if Rick rises to the challenge, although the more he writes, the less I read.
    Perhaps if we ever attend the same meet, you can take my Jeep on an extended (on/off?) road test and see for yourself just how horrible of a vehicle it is to drive

  8. #38
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by gdwriter View Post
    Exactly. I have zero interest in going into mud and rocks. My idea of roughing it is a Motel 6.

    My Seville has 275 hp, and I enjoy every single one of them. Since a regular dose of WOT is recommended for the Northstar, I follow that advice. There is something extremely exhilarating about feeling the push back in your seat from the thrust of a high-performance engine doing what it was designed to do.

    I would definitely enjoy a convertible, whether it were a '64 Cadillac or a Miata. But definitely not a Jeep. At least not for me.
    I agree, it's just too bad Cadillac didn't make a proper RWD performance car with manual transmission to take advantage of the Northstar in the 90's.

    I like to be "involved" with my performance vehicles. If it is on road or off, it dosen't matter. I want to see/hear/feel what the vehicle is doing.

    To me, a performance engine in a FWD fullsize four-door with an automatic just looses so much of what is there to experience.

    I never said I wouldn't want one as a daily driver, or a dedicated highway car. My Town Car was great as what it did - what it was made to do. But what it was made to do was no longer what I wanted in a vehicle, so I sold it.

    In an on-road performance car, to me, there is so much more to experience then throwing a shifter in drive and turning the steering wheel. I want a real clutch and manual transmission, I don't want to be isolated from the road, I want to be connected.... and I like to take it a step further with the wind in my hair.

    As for power, I had to ask my how how much do I really need? I've gotten near-$400 speeding tickets in both BMW's - 170hp I6 and 130hp I4, each will easily hit triple digits on the interstate and keep going, each can merge in traffic quicker than most daily drivers and keep up with traffic. For me it wasn't all about power, but maximizing the entire driving experience.

    Part of the entire driving experience is turning. Something I used to not even think twice about. A well handling car with enough power to not feel "slow" (which is also a realitive term) to me is alot more fun then a high powered muscle car that dosen't handle well, or a powerful sedan with an automatic.

    I just got tired of the "isolated" luxobarges, I like vehicles that are involving, but must of all, fun, be it on road or off. The Jeep is a vehicle that excels off-road, but is also, for me, a fine daily driver and does very well on road. The BMW maximizes any attributes a "fun" road car should have, to me.

    Are either vehicle ideal for a family to pack up and visit the grand parents in or to enjoy a totally quiet and isolated highway drive in? No, but that's not what I bought them for anyway.

    When I had my Town Car, which had tinted windows and A/C, I just didn't like being confined to within my car, so I'd open all 4 windows on highway trips because I liked the air blowing. That took away alot of what the car had to offer - quiet. But it is what I liked.

    For what it's worth, my Jeep with the hard doors and factory sail-cloth soft top has less wind noise then the BMW with the top up. Most the time the tops are down tho.

    It is alot more fun to drive a slow car fast, then to drive a fast car slow

  9. #39
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    2004 CTS-Vs are down to $18k now.

  10. #40
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Financing stinks. So does being in debt on a depreciating asset. When the Jeep gets paid off, that "payment" is going to be added to my mortgage each month.

  11. #41
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Gee, another long-ass dissertation from Rick. Quelle surprise. And as usual, full of crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf View Post
    I agree, it's just too bad Cadillac didn't make a proper RWD performance car with manual transmission to take advantage of the Northstar in the 90's.
    I would prefer RWD, but I much prefer the styling inside and out of my Seville to the 05+ STS. I'm perfectly happy with my car's handling abilities, so it's an acceptable trade-off. I'm sure I'll really enjoy my RWD CTS in the future, but I've very happy with what I have right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf View Post
    I like to be "involved" with my performance vehicles. If it is on road or off, it dosen't matter. I want to see/hear/feel what the vehicle is doing.

    To me, a performance engine in a FWD fullsize four-door with an automatic just looses so much of what is there to experience.
    Get a freakin' clue. We are not talking about an '82 DeVille with a 4100. Nor a '79 or '93 DeVille like you once owned (although I managed to find my '91 DeVille plenty entertaining). From 1992 on, the Seville, and especially the STS, were Cadillac's sport sedans. These are not rolling living rooms.

    I am plenty involved in the driving experience when I want to be, and I don't need a bloody clutch pedal to see/hear/feel what my car is doing. I enjoy a stick on occasion, and in some cars — like LS1Mike's Trans Am, a Miata, or my friend's Z3 — I consider it mandatory. I simply don't want one as a daily driver.

    I took the back road route to work this morning, which has some nice sweeping curves, along with a 1.5-mile stretch where you make six sharp turns, most of them ~90º. There was a car that had come charging up behind me right before this stretch, so I took the curves faster than usual, brake hard going in, accelerate halfway though and power out with the Northstar doing what it does so well. And guess what? When I plant my right foot, it downshifts and pulls hard.

    It was a lot of fun — even involving to use your word — and the Seville handled it with aplomb. I'll wager that with your Jeep's high center of gravity, you couldn't take those turns anywhere near as fast as I did without tipping over. And if I kept my foot down, I would easily blow you away on the straights. Now that's fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf View Post
    Part of the entire driving experience is turning. Something I used to not even think twice about. A well handling car with enough power to not feel "slow" (which is also a realitive term) to me is alot more fun then a high powered muscle car that dosen't handle well, or a powerful sedan with an automatic.
    Maybe you're assuming an '01 Seville has pinkie-twirling power steering with no feel like I suspect your '79 DeVille had. Newsflash: it doesn't. One reason I can take turns at speed and love some of the cloverleaf freeway on ramps we have around here is because I can feel what the front wheels are doing and make a smooth, precise turn. Hell, even Betty's power steering gives good feel, and I have fun taking her around turns, and I can even feel the difference RWD makes in when you can start accelerating out of a turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf View Post
    I just got tired of the "isolated" luxobarges, I like vehicles that are involving, but must of all, fun, be it on road or off.
    Here again, you show your ignorance. Despite its size, my Seville is hardly an isolated luxobarge. The ride is very comfortable, but it's reasonably firm and not at all floaty. And surprise, surprise, when the weather's nice, I enjoy driving with all the windows down, even at highway speeds. Did it going home one night last week, and it was quite refreshing.

    I've made it very clear my Seville can be very involving and fun to drive. I've pointed it out before — with examples — and you still don't get it. Or refuse to see it. I at least acknowledge that your Jeep is fun for you; for me and the kind of driving I like to do, it would not be. I used to car pool on occasion with a friend who had a Wrangler. Rush hour traffic on Phoenix freeways, even in nice weather, was not particularly pleasant. I don't need to drive one to know that the high center of gravity that makes it so capable off road would limit it on my favorite winding back roads.

    And my Seville does something your Jeep can't. When I've had an exhausting day at work, or I have an hour-and-a-half drive home from the airport after a long, tiring trip, I can effortlessly eat up the miles in complete comfort. In an open Jeep, I'd be miserable and arrive home even more exhausted. Maybe you wouldn't, but I would.

    And for crying out loud, it's spelled "though," not "tho." This is not texting. It's three freakin' letters. Use them.

  12. #42
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Damn, my retort is longer than Rick's post that I'm retorting to.

    Oh, well, there was plenty to retort to.

  13. #43
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    I agree the 4th and 5th geneation Sevilles handle well, but I really wounldn't classify them as sports sedans. They are nicely tuned personal luxury cars well suited to American driving conditions, but if I really had to go from L.A. to Palmdale using the Angeles Crest Highway (for many years Road and Track's "twisties" road test road) in a hurry I would take my old Alfa 164 any day!

  14. #44
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    I think I could enjoy the Angeles Crest Highway in just about any car. Well maybe not a Mark IV. Since I don't have a fleet of cars at my disposal (and my fleet would include a sports car), I want something that's well balanced: effortless or entertaining depending on my mood and the situation, powerful, but still good on gas, comfortable, but still capable on winding roads. And it has to be good looking. So for me, the Seville fits the bill perfectly.

    Whether it's seen as a true sport sedan — either by the motoring press or drivers — Cadillac certainly marketed the STS as a luxury sport sedan.

  15. #45
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    Re: Aside from Cadillacs?

    Have to disagree with you on the Seville steering GaryD, it's somewhat overboosted and light IMO which decreases road feel and straight-line stability.

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