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414K views 3K replies 272 participants last post by  greencadillacmatt 
#1 ·
I thought it would be cool to have a thread where we show our cars as they sit right now...without being cleaned and prepped at all.

Here's mine as of this morning. It snowed last Friday night, and I hadn't washed it yet....so it's caked in salt. But I washed it this afternoon, so it's clean now.

 
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#151 ·
Very nice work there, John. You'd never know this was a nearly 20-year-old car. Love how the emblems reflect off the bumper. What did you use for the chrome? I need to detail Betty for car show season, and I'd love to have bumpers that shined like yours.

As for the hood ornament, just be patient and keep looking every so often. You could easily find one that's mint for cheap. I did, and I even managed to sell the faded one for more than I paid for the new one!



Is the hood ornament different on the RWD models vs. FWD? You could always just swap it with the Fleetwood.
 
#152 ·
Is the hood ornament different on the RWD models vs. FWD? You could always just swap it with the Fleetwood.
The RWD ones were bigger. Its the same from 86-92, and I'm 98.4% certain a 80-84 Fleetwood is the same(Fleetwoods had the wreath and crest, Devilles just had the crest).

As for chrome polish, Turtle wax chrome polish is great stuff. You can find it at any O'Riley's, Pep-Boys, etc.
 
#154 ·
Even so, for a nearly 20-year-old car, it looks good. Cruella has a number of nicks and scratches, plus the hood has a lot of chips in it. I think the DS quarter panel may have been repainted at some point because it's a bit faded, while the rest of the paint is still pretty shiny.

Thanks for the tip on the Never Dull. Besides the bumpers, I'll bet they'll do a great job on Betty's hubcaps. Those spinners will really gleam.

I looked up on the Eagle One site and saw they now have a wheel coating to prevent brake dust, which drives me nuts. Will have to swing by NAPA this week.
 
#160 ·
I'm not talking about those ghetto bling spinners. These are factory.





Spinner hubcaps were very popular from the mid 50s until Ralph Nader got them banned after 1966. Yet another reason to hate him.
Why were they banned? I could see knock off wire wheels being dangerous, but its a freaking hubcap!

BTW, I saw a newer(2007ish) Mustang on the dealer lot with spinners instead of the regular center caps. It looked like this, but on a different set of wheels

 
#157 ·
John, your Brougham is magnificent. I love those 90-92's. They perfected one of their best designs.
 
#161 ·
They were originally designed to hold the entire wheel on, not just the hubcap. Instead of torquing lug nuts you would take a brass or other soft faced hammer and smash those suckers on tight. The brass was softer than the spinning hubs so it didn't damage them (usually). You can buy spinner hubs again though as I have seen some 100 spoke aftermarket wheels with them.
 
#162 ·
I've inspected a couple of Jaguar XK-Es that had the knock-off wheels. Loved the ones used on the Corvette from 1963-66.

Normally, I hate wire wheel covers, but the spinners make the ones on Betty look cool.

BTW, I bought some of that Never Dull polish and the Eagle One Wheel Keep Clean. Now I just need to find time to wash and detail Betty before Saturday's show. I'll try to post some before and after pictures.
 
#163 ·
How bout' some candid XXX pics of Noelle's undercarriage???

This is why her middle name is Pandora.



Transmission was supported by a jackstand in that picture, no difference, as I could bench press the thing. Not seeing it? Here:



Both tranmissions mounts no longer.... mounted anything. They were simply now "supports" That above picture was just from supporting the weight of the trans with a jack stand and unbolting the crossmember from the car. It's not supposed to do that. That trans oil leak is also on the list of things to fix.

2-piece driveshaft w/ Center Support Bearing. The entire exhaust system had to be dropped to get to this.



E30 playa!



Totally shot shifter linkage assembly that allowed un-BMW amounts of play in the shifter. I'm thinking between the extremely shot linkage assembly and the 2 transmission mounts that were.....shot... it may have had something to do with the trouble downshifting into 2nd... so maybe the synchros aren't as bad as I thought. We'll see.



Cost to rebuild the entire shifter assembly replacing every single wear item? $350 in parts from the dealer. Heck I'm just happy BMW still (fully!) supports the E30, you can buy a whole factory dash from them (for $550!) that is even upgraded with the new BMW material. To heck with costs, I just applaud the fact that they still support their old stuff.... GM gives up on things after 7-10yrs.

With that said, $100 of that $350 went to my new short shifter - Z3 1.9, which most E30 fans consider to be just about the perfect blend and feel for a fun daily driver. Stock E30 325i on the left, Z3 1.9 on the right. Maybe now shifting gears in the BMW won't feel like the Jeep anymore.



Once this is all back together, it'll be finished off with a nice, real BMW shift knob, as well as a nice new leather shifter and parking brake boot kit. Seeing as how the manual transmission, IMO is the entire central point of this whole car, this work alone is just huge, and I can't wait to see what it'll be like after words.

These are only a few of the issues/pictures. I never took pictures of the rear shock mounts that were literally not even holding the shocks to the chassis of the car anymore. In fact, I am rather amazed at how well the car, as a whole... still just.... worked. With a certain level of percision too. I mean, the suspension was shot, but she still handled. Every part in the shifter linkage that could wear out, is, and both transmisson mounts are split in half... the shifter had about a foot of play in gear, yet it still went into each gear, every time, I could shift aggressive and it still did it's thing. The distrubutor cap and rotor were original (date code stamped on them) and in turn, about as worn out as they could reasonably get.... yet the engine still ran, with some level of performance (it sounds and revs much better now tho!) Really, it is just amazing how well built this car is, for it to perform the way it was, in the condition it was in. To say it'll be like a whole new car to me once complete will be an understatement.

Ah well.... it's all in the fun. I'm sleepy now.
 
#165 ·
Right around 140k

She's a 1990, with a build date of 7/89. Same month as my birthday, shes coming up on 20 yrs old. Good news on E30s, they don't have alot of rubber parts that fail over time. Bad news with E30s, the rubber parts they do have, are a bit more involved to replace then a comparable GM etc...

I don't blame any of the worn out stuff on the car at all, I mean it's a 20-yr old car with 140k miles, and who knows what kind of life it lived in the past.

IIRC, I am the 4th owner, and it was a leased vehicle when new, which could be a good or bad thing. Maybe some rich lawyer had it and took it to the dealer for everything (BMW was strict about that, especially their leases) but leased vehicles can sometimes be driven harder/abused.

In any case, my car definitly shows (many) signs of being driven hard in it's past. All wear items that would fail/wear/need to be replaced from hard driving, were shot on my car. It's really not a big deal, as I'm sure I drive it just as hard as anyone in the past... I guess it's some of the thrill with the old BMW's they were built well and cold hold up to alot. I'm going to enjoy the heck outta this thing, it's my favorite car I've owned to date. The plan is, if it breaks, I fix it. Keeps things simple that way :)

She'll be going up to NY with me later this year when I got back for a week, so I'm going to be doing even other preventative maintenace items sooner, rather then later as well.
 
#166 ·
My friend's Camaro had a broken trans mount. Every time you put it into reverse it would clunk and move around. One of my other friends had a crappy old Tempo with a broken motor mount. That thing was hilarious. Every time you put the car into drive the engine would smash up into the hood. It did it so many times and with so much force it dented the center of the hood out about 4 inches.
 
#169 ·
My Brougham is too cool to just twist the engine. When you start it up the whole car torques to the side. Its bad ass. :D
 
#168 ·
That's the interesting thing, my 4.9 broke the front motor mount twice, and you knew it for sure.

I had no idea both trans mounts were bad. There was no violent jerks or clunks. Even when the drive shaft was connected, I could lift up the trans and it would rotate the entire engine and trans on the motor mounts. Only thing limiting the up motion was the tunnel in the floor.
 
#174 ·
John, I owe you one for the tip on the Never Dull. After washing Betty and detailing Sabrina (ran her through the car was on the way home from work), I ran out of time to do much with it before dark. But I'm very happy with the results.

Did one hubcap and found the wadding could get behind the spokes and really clean up the chrome in the center.

Before:



After:



Saturday's show doesn't start until 11, so I can shine up the rest of the hubcaps, the bumpers and the chrome that morning.
 
#175 ·
Inspired by some of Gary Hebding's photos, I took a couple of glamour shots of Sabrina this evening. I'm nowhere near the photographer he is, but I'm happy with how they turned out. The wheel shot would have been better if I had gotten it 10 minutes earlier before the sun went down behind the house across the street; the lighting was really nice. But the tire dressing hadn't fully dried yet.





 
#176 ·
Finished detailing Betty this morning for today's car show; that Never Dull stuff does a really good job, and it didn't take too long, despite the amount of chrome I had to polish:






















And yes, the air conditioning works. It damn well should for the money I've put into it.
 
#177 ·
Gary, damn you and your amazingly nice old car. [shakes angry fist] :)

I found out about the Never Dull from friend. He had some come with a car he got that had 20" rims on it (we quickly sold those for $600).
 
#179 ·
Gary, damn you and your amazingly nice old car. [shakes angry fist] :)
Thanks. Betty means a lot to me; not only is she a beautiful classic and a kick to drive, she gave me back a connection to my past. My love for cars started with a '64 Impala.

It took 15 years between the time my Dad sold the Impala I grew up with and when I bought Betty. I looked off and on over those years (mostly off), but the right car came around at the right time. It was love at first sight, and every time I drive her, I'm reminded how lucky I am to have her.

Now, if I could just have the kind of luck with women that I've had with my cars, and I'd be in great shape. :rolleyes:
 
#180 ·
BTW, pictures from the show are here. It's a nice show, not too big, and there was some very nice cars there, including another '64 Impala that's practically brand new. All original with only 12,000 miles. A new Challenger R/T was there, too. I like it, especially the front, but it's just too damn big. It would look so much better if it were closer in size to the Mustang or Camaro.
 
#181 ·
Ugh, I HATE when people bring their brand new cars to CLASSIC car shows like that ahole with the Challenger. Now, if you were like my uncle and brought your '71 Challenger and had it sitting next to your new Challenger, that is a different story. However, the only things that belong in car shows are cars over 15 years old or cars they no longer make/are rare (like the Viper).
 
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#183 ·
It's not specifically a classic car show; since it's at a university, there are usually student cars there, too, and most of them are fairly new ricers (although the best student car went to a guy with a '70 Chevy truck).

The guy with the Challenger was actually pretty cool. His Dad owns the '68 Camaro that was parked next to it.

That's one gorgeous Impala, Gary. Normally, green cars don't do it for me, but on Betty it somehow looks just right! :)
Thanks, Craig. Close up, she has her flaws, but she's a driver and will never be a 100-point restoration; I enjoy driving her too much to put her under glass.

Green isn't a color I would normally choose for a car, but I just got lucky when I found Betty; she's the same color — Meadow Green — as the '64 Impala I grew up with.
 
#186 ·
Gary, I saw a '64 Impala SS Coupe the other day at Hooked On Classics. It was black/black, and it had the 250hp 327 and the powerglide. An awful lot like your car. I have pics...
 
#188 ·
Same powertrain as Betty. Yes, send the pictures please.

I couldn't agree more that collector cars should enjoyed for what are cars ........ and driven and enjoyed as the four dimensional machines that they are. As Chairman of the Jaguar Club of Virginia's annual Concours d'Elegance (a JCNA show for national points) for several years I saw many beautifully restored cars. These cars were not just restored but put into condition far better than they left the Jaguar factory. The cars arrived in enclosed trailers in lined car covers and then began the on site final cleaning. While these cars were beautiful to look at they in no way reflected the reality of what these cars were when they were new. Their condition and the requirements of Concours competition prohited the car from really being used and enjoyed.

Fortunately their were divisions in the show for "Driven" cars, and also for unrestored cars that had been well maintained throughout their lives. This last class was where I showed my '64 E-type Series I Coupe. By no means immaculate it was well cared for and original ......... I also drove it frequently until I sold it a year ago. To me the enjoyemnt of owning these old cars is in continued use of them for transportation and mobile recreation.
The car shows I attend are definitely not in the league of a Concours d'Elegance, but cars that are so perfect they can't be driven and enjoyed don't interest me beyond appreciating their beauty. I will occasionally come across a trailer queen at one of the shows I attend, but I never vote for them.

I do classic car inspections whenever there's one in my area, and I've done two E-Types, a '67 and a '74 V-12. I didn't get to drive the V-12 that far, and it was just OK, but the '67 was one of my favorites. Took it out on the freeway, and the owner encouraged me to open it up. What a rush! Amazingly, all the original Lucas electrics worked, too.
 
#187 ·
I couldn't agree more that collector cars should enjoyed for what are cars ........ and driven and enjoyed as the four dimensional machines that they are. As Chairman of the Jaguar Club of Virginia's annual Concours d'Elegance (a JCNA show for national points) for several years I saw many beautifully restored cars. These cars were not just restored but put into condition far better than they left the Jaguar factory. The cars arrived in enclosed trailers in lined car covers and then began the on site final cleaning. While these cars were beautiful to look at they in no way reflected the reality of what these cars were when they were new. Their condition and the requirements of Concours competition prohited the car from really being used and enjoyed.

Fortunately their were divisions in the show for "Driven" cars, and also for unrestored cars that had been well maintained throughout their lives. This last class was where I showed my '64 E-type Series I Coupe. By no means immaculate it was well cared for and original ......... I also drove it frequently until I sold it a year ago. To me the enjoyemnt of owning these old cars is in continued use of them for transportation and mobile recreation.

My 1995 Seville STS is used every day and kept in prime mechanical and cosmetic condition. Now that business considerations no longer require my driving "new" cars, I am thoroughly enjoying being able have as a daily driver a car I consider a real 1990's classic!
 
#192 ·
The Brougham weighs about 4250lbs, so even for a big car its pretty light.

By comparison:
2009 Tahoe: 5581lbs
2009 Benz S-550: 4464lbs
2009 Chrysler 300c:4096lbs
2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8: 4140lbs
2009 Chevy Z-71 1500 Extra cab: 5142lbs

As far as power, the 350 tbi is all torque. You really don't need to put the pedal down more than halfway driving normally or merging. Pushing it to the floor doesn't make it go any faster, since it pretty much falls on its face past 4000rpms.
 
#193 ·
As far as power, the 350 tbi is all torque. You really don't need to put the pedal down more than halfway driving normally or merging. Pushing it to the floor doesn't make it go any faster, since it pretty much falls on its face past 4000rpms.
Yeah it is. Sometimes it feels as though I can make it accelerate faster by only giving it 1/2 throttle and keeping the trans from down shifting. If it down shifts you get a whole lot of noise but not a lot of go. Up to about 25-30 the thing is a rocket. It falls on its face from 30-42 and then it shifts and takes off again but it takes FOREVER to get though that 30-42 range. I will have to make a video.
 
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