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350K views 3K replies 192 participants last post by  FTSS 
#1 ·
Glock 17 9mm 18 rd mag and 33 rd mag





12 Gauge Mossberg 500 removable AR adjustable stock







M1 garand 30-06 8 rd






The whole family

 
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#658 ·
No pictures or range report yet, but I picked up a Kel-tec PF-9 for summer carry a couple of days ago. Previously I've carried a Beretta Tomcat .32 when I've needed easy concealment, but never felt like I had enough stopping power. The PF-9 is lighter and nearly as slim, but a good bit longer overall. It also does not feel near as durable, but we'll see how it holds up. I plan to put it through some pretty rigorous testing before I carry it as anything more than a backup.
 
#659 ·
I finally got out to the range today to try out the new Sig p6!

Amazing shooter, ESPECIALLY considering I only dropped three and a half for it. It's a Sig P6/P225 9mm West German police surplus pistol. They just legalized them in California and people here are buying them up like crazy. It's got a bit of holster wear but internally it is in amazing shape and it fires like a new gun. Pictures can be found in this thread, a page or two back. It's an eight plus one single stack 9mm SA/DA with the famed Sig decocker, plastic grips and simple/boring/non-night sights.

Brass ejects fast, high and far, landing in the same place every time. Recoil is a little more than I expected, being a steel framed gun, but even so it is more than manageable for just about any shooter out there. Trigger pull is great, normal Sig feel on the single action, just about perfect on the double action. After about two hundred and fifty rounds I had no malfunctions of any kind. Accurate as all hell, I put just about every round inside the center ring at seven, ten, 15 and 18 yards, using both hands. Strong handed was almost as good and weak handed I just plain suck and need more practice so I'm not going to ding the gun for that. At 25 yards, accuracy remained excellent though my lighting at the indoor range isn't the best so I had a few unacceptable misses.

Kneeling, using the counter for support, I could shoot two eight round magazines with only one called flyer outside of the otherwise all-touching group, at ten yards. I was running low on ammo and time so I didn't get a chance to shoot with support any further out, but I'm confident it would do just as well at the 25 yard max that my range offers.

Fit - amazing. Nice and snug in my hand, like it was meant to be there, just like my 226. It is a bit slimmer, a tiny bit shorter and about an inch less in length than my 226, which would make it perfect for those of smaller stature or with smaller hands. I can't wait to get the wife out to try it. I've got a feeling she'll love it.

Alright, off to house chores and back to work for me...
 
#1,466 ·
I've been meaning to ask about this. Our armorer says it's not listed in the TM and it's relatively new (1 yr old). You mean the clicking one, right. It reminded him to order one.

Our supply sergeant said just google it, because some items just don't have an NSN. Seems like it's the case here, I mean you could CALL this vendor: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ar15-Front-Sight-Tool-p/tool front sight.htm but what our supply would do is buy it commercially.

Is there a special reason you need an NSN? Just curious.

If it ever gets assigned an NSN, the nomenclature would be close to: "tool, M16, sight post, front"
 
#663 ·
Huh...laser is likely a crappy knockoff. Good ones can run around 300+, just for the laser. BUT, if its what she wants and it'll get her into the sport, do it!
 
#664 ·
Well, after what, 4 months of having the AR-15 I finally got to take her to the range. Fires as smooth as I would expect from that family, accurate and the match trigger...wow!

My grouping was pretty tight (targets based on 300 meters at 25 meters), but still need to fine tune my accuracy as far as center-mass (got her zeroed and hit the final few rounds center-mass). I'll have more time this summer to get my accuracy honed though.

For the girlfriend, well, she will get the hang of it. Her grouping wasn't there, but she did manage to get one shot in the eyeball area, neck area, and unmentionable ares...I think I may be afraid of her body-part specific accuracy :p

Just though I would share the fun!
 
#666 ·
Well, after what, 4 months of having the AR-15 I finally got to take her to the range. Fires as smooth as I would expect from that family, accurate and the match trigger...wow!

My grouping was pretty tight (targets based on 300 meters at 25 meters), but still need to fine tune my accuracy as far as center-mass (got her zeroed and hit the final few rounds center-mass). I'll have more time this summer to get my accuracy honed though.

For the girlfriend, well, she will get the hang of it. Her grouping wasn't there, but she did manage to get one shot in the eyeball area, neck area, and unmentionable ares...I think I may be afraid of her body-part specific accuracy :p

Just though I would share the fun!
What grain ammo you shooting? Most ex military guys sight those things in at 25 meters but you'd be better served by sighting it in at 50 meters. I can post the ballistic data on 55gr and 62 gr ammo when I get home, but a 50 meter zero will keep you in the kill zone from 50 meters out to 320 meters. You'd be negligibly high at 100, and negligibly low at 320, and everything in between is a kill.
 
#665 ·
Excellent! We need girlfriend-with-gun pics!!! You can take the picture so we don't actually have to see YOU.

:D
 
#669 ·
Here's what I mean:

Meter = (m)

25 meter zero: 55gr projectile
25m = 0.0
50m = 2.3'' high
75m = 4.4" high
100m = 6.2" high
125m = 7.8" high
150m = 9.2" high
175m = 10.3" high
200m = 11.2" high
250m = 12.1" high
300m = 11.8" high
325m = 11.3" high

As you can see if you're zeroed at 25 and shoot at a target at 200 meters you'd be off almost a foot. This is out of the kill zone on a humanoid target, which is on average 8-10 inches.


50 meter zero: 55gr projectile
25m = -1.1 low
50m = 0.0
75m = 0.9" high
100m = 1.6" high
125m = 2.1" high
150m = 2.3" high
175m = 2.3" high
200m = 2.0" high
250m = 0.6" high
300m = -1.9' low
325m = -3.6" low

With the superior 50 meter zero you're good to go. From 25m out to 325m you're well within the 8-10 inch kill zone of a humanoid size target. It's FAR more practical for several reasons. Not the least of which is your ability to judge size and distance while in "fight or flight" mode will be altered significantly. In that sort of situation point and shoot is more effective.
 
#670 ·
Well, my ammo is 55gr, but I had to use the indoor range, which for the rifle range, was 75 feet, which is close to 25 meters. I got one of the military targets, which was the 300 meters @ 25 meters...Next time I go up there, I'll see what the outdoor range is like and what can be done there.

Also, this is the first time in years I have fired this type of weapon. I'll get the hang of it again...Thanks Rolex for the tips though!
 
#672 ·
Oh yeah!

I'll get more time in for sure, but here's the thing; this girlfriend of mine, which hasn't been around too long, wanted to do this. So not only do I finally get to fire $1000 worth of pure adrenaline, but I seem to have found a girl that fits me...

Sorry, just a little exited about a few things! :eek:
 
#673 ·
Well here's my question about your little chart...

Are we talking an A2 style rear sight aperture where you should be doing that 25m zero at 8/3 + 1? Not like I don't know a thing or two..

Of course this conversation can get all sorts of ****ed up *real* quick - different ammo, weapon, etc.

I'll talk from the perspective of an M16A2 using M855 ball.

Zero Procedure:
25M target. Rear sight elevation at 8/3 + click. Zero. Return to 8/3.

Now, what this does is basically zeros that rifle with that cartridge for 300M. Yes, closer in will be high, but it will still be in the kill zone. Farther out, you adjust the elevation of the rear to the distance indicated (4 for 400 meters, etc). Slight elevation adjustments can be made using intermediate clicks.


Now of course going to even an M16A4 that procedure is different (same cartridge). This time is 6/3 + 2 when zeroing. After, same theory applies.


Moral of the story?

Use the charts as rough guide, but that's it. If you're going for precision shooting (something you won't be doing with a military issue rifle and ammo - M4 + M855 is looking at about 2MOA), figure out what cartridge you are going to want to use most of the time and make your data book. Hell, that's what we did at the SDM course and we were just using standard military hardware and ammo.

Ok, I think I've blabbed long enough about nothing...
 
#674 ·
I thought i was clear, that data is specific to 55 grain ammo. I believe your equivalent would be m193. I don't have similar data for the m855 62 grain ammo, but it wouldn't take me any time to pull it up. I have always shot the 55 grain because its less expensive and easier to find. The balistics of the 62 grain round would differ from the 55 grain, so a 50m zero would yield a different result.

The benefit of the 50m zero with 55 grain ammo is you are within a 8 inch kill zone from 25 to 320 meters without the hassle of mucking with sight adjustment. The difference between a1, a2, a3 should be negligible. That data iirc is specific to the 16 inch barrel weapon and not the 20.

As I said, sight it in how you'd like and have fun shooting it with your lady.

Sinister I know you've had extensive training in the army and won't change your mind about what's "best." You'll get no further debate from me. ;)

eta: and that "little chart" is the trajectory chart from something called a ballistic table. ;)
 
#676 ·
I'd give a lot to have a 20mm and the ammo to feed it...though, on second glance, that looks like maybe a super heavy barreled 50...
 
#679 ·
Ok, yea...I was just thinking that the magazine seemed a little short for the 20mm, but seeing it next to the fifty, I was wrong. :(
 
#680 ·
A 10x scope on a 20mm rifle? WTF? I'd think it could reach out a little better than that scope is capable of!
 
#684 ·
Until recently finding either 193 or 855 was near impossible. There has been a small lot of 193 released just recently and it can be had for $350/k + shipping (give or take). Six months ago that same 1000 of 193 would have been $400-425/k.

The 855 I can find is in smaller lots of 800'ish rounds IIRC and it's $400-450 (roughly $500/k). It's still a little tough to find in large lots. You can find people selling off small lots on arfcom at times. Mostly what you find IS NOT Lake City ammo so the quality may be <.

For plinking there are several reasons not to use 855. It's more expensive, you get far less ammo, and ranges with steel targets won't let you use the stuff because it wears on the targets to a greater degree.
 
#690 ·
Damnitt...I need to buy a new toy. Money is short and the Challenger is coming along quickly though. Crap.

I want to get a new deer rifle, probably a BAR II in 300 WinMag, a new 20g semiauto shotgun for the wife, a new hand cannon that will probably be a desert eagle, a new large bore elephant rifle for when animals escape from the zoo and a new AR-10 variant that I've got all planned out and ready to blow the money on. Plus, I need a new safe and a reloading bench and a few dozen thousand rounds of ammo for the stuff I already have.

Crap. I need a third and a fourth job!
 
#692 ·
Useless and pointless weapon, but goddamned cool to pull out of your range bag and start plinking.

Plus, I've got enough brass, bullets and powder to load about a thousand rounds of 50 Action Express and about 1600 .44 Magnum (which is what I'd have to get it chambered in here in Kalifornia, then do some modifications to it to be able to shoot the .50!) which is close to two thousand dollars worth of ammo. Worth it to buy the gun JUST so I can shoot the ammo! :)
 
#694 ·
Cut rate? That's TWICE what we were paying for it two or three years ago! Slit throat prices, maybe!
 
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