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Canada Discussion, Lose Car over 50 over limit in Cadillac Clubs, Local Chapters and Regional Forums; Well its at that point where we agree to disagree, you are right though about government, I should not have ...
  1. #31
    Caddyshack100 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    Well its at that point where we agree to disagree, you are right though about government, I should not have used those terms, rather its the people who make up that government, you are right, this is still N America, and I still would rather live here than anywhere else, I drive everyday from the shores of Georgian Bay to Brampton, 280 km each day, I have seen alot and my drive has become longer and longer, yes its my choice, but none of the changes especially in Brampton are positive ones. Thats all I wish to say.

  2. #32
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    And with the good weather it begins again.
    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...77746-sun.html

  3. #33
    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    It's careless speeding that's the issue. And someone explain how this makes sense: I live 5 houses from a school of approx 800 kids. 10 in the morning, when school's in session, I hear a speeding motorbike, I look out the window, a bike flies past my house doing at least 160 km/h, or 100 MPH. toward the school. Guess what?! An OPP cruiser was right behind, doing the same speed. Toward the school, only 5 houses away from me. What gives the cops the rights to endanger kids' lives like that? To me it doesn't matter what the guy on the bike did, the cop had no right to chase him past a school. That's plain rediculous. Cops speed when they shouldn't, and to me this is an example of it. They have all the rights, eh?

    I'm running a Cobra radar detector. I forget which model but it has the digital readout and voice alert. It has saved my butt a few times. 3kms ahead of time it'll go off, if a cop is ahead. And I can pass by them with that puppy on, and they can't detect it. I hide it when I see a cruiser, or if I'm driving in town. But out on the highway it has never let me down. I don't believe in rediculously high speeds, but every now and then I get my car up to about 100-110 MPH (160-180km/h). Not for long, and only on open roads with no traffic. But the speed limit is 80km/h on country roads around me, with nothing in sight but two lanes and yellow stripes. Why the heck would you NOT speed? Cops are after the money, not keeping the roads safe.

    Explain this one to me. I'm driving 90km/h. All of a sudden I see a cop in my rear view. I drop down to 80, and she (yes a female officer) passes me. So I match her speed with a safe following distance. She does 95 km/h. All of a sudden she slams her brakes and hits the shoulder, hoping that I'll pass her doing a speed her radar detector will pick up. Luckily I hit the brakes right after and dropped below the speed limit, so she couldn't get a reading. If we can't speed, why should they. If we stay behind them and keep up, what's the harm?

    Yes, some (the odd one) cops do the public big favours and they help us out. Others, kick you when you're down. They pick on people who can't afford tickets, and are just driving to work so they can feed their kids and family. Pull us over, fine. Tell us we were speeding. Fine. Let us off with a warning. Most people will slow down with a warning alone. Taking our money, our cars, 10 thousand dollar fines? What the hell? This is C-A-N-A-D-A. Our police system is supposed to help people. Instead we have the mafia in uniforms, and our tax dollars are filling their tanks.

    I saw one officer in Toronto I think, help a lady change her flat tire. Round of applause to that officer. I'd do the same if I were in uniform. Cops like that, we could use.

  4. #34
    97EldoCoupe's Avatar
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    And another thing. I'm aware of the radar-detector fines if I get caught. I forget exactly what the fines are, I know they're stiff, but not as stiff as losing your car. What happens to it when it gets impounded? We're all driving CADILLACS!!!! Every one of us should have a good radar detector. We're driving better and faster cars than the cops are, why not have a bit of protection so we don't lose our pride-and-joy toys?

  5. #35
    Caddyshack100 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    Boy when I wrote this, I did not think it would hit such a nerve and polarize people. Eldo97 for the record, and believe it or not, police no matter what they are doing, can drive as fast as they want, when on patrol. Of course they become mere mortals again when not in uniform. Firetrucks, Ambulances, and Towtrucks are also not required to obey the limits. Just kidding with the tow trucks. Now that this law has been with us for a while, some things have become clear, it has not had the intended effect of slowing people down, now they only do 145 not 150 down the highway, it has made no difference to the safety of the streets, heck truckers drive like lunatics far more than car drivers do. It has really pissed people off, and now when a cop wants to pull someone over if they have gone the 50 plus, now sometimes people will try and get away. If you travel as much as I do on the 400 series, most of the vehicles in the hammer lane are VW TDI's (tuetonic Dumbkof Imports) usually with one light out or one taillight out belching out their black smoke and stink of their exhaust, so much for clean diesels, now these vehicles are usually doing 140 or better, guess they won't be getting 1000 km out of a tank of expensive (yippee) diesel. Jury is still out on this law, maybe the government can be made to see common sense. NOT

  6. #36
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    http://www.wheels.ca/Columnists/article/248098

    Hey look at me! I'm a street racer!
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    Just a slight nudge above 150 km/h and Jim Kenzie joins Fantino's Most Wanted List
    Jim Kenzie
    Special to the Star


    May 24, 2008



    I am now officially a "street racer."

    I went up to Dave & Buster's in Vaughan, near Highways 7 and 400. I confronted the young kids in their slammed Civics and tarted up STis, and said, "Okay, dudes, who's got a pink slip they want to put up? I got a four-year-old diesel-powered automatic transmission Volkswagen Jetta station wagon, and this silver-haired old man is ready to take on any of you. Anyone got the guts?

    "That Natalie Wood look-alike can drop the hanky for me; that Christina Aguilera look-alike can drop the hanky for you."

    Well, it didn't happen exactly like that.

    I was cruising along with the flow of traffic on the 401 at just under 140 km/h. I thought about the recent furor generated by OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino, that anyone doing 50 over the limit is automatically a street racer, and wondered what it would be like to be a Bad Boy.

    So I nudged the accelerator just a titch, and barely saw 150 on the clock.

    Wow! I'm a street racer!

    In a Volkswagen. Jetta. Station wagon. Diesel. Automatic.

    It was so much fun that a few weeks later I tried it again, this time in a 70-hp three cylinder sub-1.0 L Smart car. Okay, so it does have a Ferrari-style Formula One paddle shifter.

    And seconds after I backed off from this lofty speed, an OPP paddy wagon went flying by me – no emergency lights – as if I were painted on the pavement.

    C'mon, Julian. Get a grip. You can't even convince your own employees to buy into this nonsense.

    And I read recently that a cop from another jurisdiction stopped a cop in a marked cruiser, who was allegedly driving more than 50 km over the limit. So much for that "we're-all-in-this-together" theory.

    We build highways that are capable of these speeds. We have cars that are capable of these speeds. There is considerable doubt we have drivers that are capable of these speeds, but until or unless you choose to do something about that, you can't keep trying to be King Canute, driving back the tides, trying to keep us from driving at these speeds.

    Ontario drivers are voting with their right feet, every single day.

    You are proud of the fact that Ontario has the safest highways in North America. Fair enough. And there's no doubt that we shouldn't ever be satisfied, and seek to be even better.

    But this little speed vendetta of yours is a complete and utter waste of time, and of scarce police resources.

    According to a recent story in the Toronto Star, as of last weekend 5,000 vehicles had been impounded by your new edict, their owners subject to massive financial penalties that will continue to accrue due to raised insurance premiums.

    Has it had any effect whatsoever?

    Recently, your minions stated that speed-related fatalities have been reduced by 41 per cent from last year, hinting, if not directly claiming, that the street racer law is responsible for this dramatic decrease.

    Just as similar claims made to support photo radar 12 years ago proved spurious, this one stinks of statistical skulduggery too.

    First, every car crash is "speed-related" to one degree or another. If nobody is moving, i.e. there is no speed, then there are no crashes – unless a stationary car falls off a bridge.

    Second, a change of this magnitude to a "mature" statistic like this clearly cannot be attributed to any single intervention, and surely is an anomaly. If there is any joke about statistics, it's that two points make a straight line, three points make a trend. You barely have two points here.

    Third, the police seem to still be catching "street racers" in undiminished numbers, which suggests that this intervention is not in fact slowing down many people; anyone with eyes can see the same thing on any stretch of controlled-access highway in this province.

    So even if 41 per cent is a robust number, wouldn't we notice a simultaneous decrease in the number of street-racer arrests, and in average speed on the highways?

    Not to mention that this procedure flies in the face of a thousand years of British common law jurisprudence, turning the cop into the judge, jury and executioner. The punishment is meted out with the alleged perpetrator never having a minute in court, let alone his day.

    (By the way, if this sort of thing turns your crank, there's a petition on this very issue on the web at: petitiononline.com/civil013/.)

    Ontario's good traffic safety record has been there for a long time, far longer than this recent endeavour, far longer than you, Mr. Commissioner, have even been in office, so claiming any credit for it at all is fatuous.

    Ironically, these speed racer stats were also quoted in a recent Star report of a Victoria Day holiday tragedy where three young women died going approximately zero km/h, after doing a U-turn on a country road. Two apparently weren't wearing their seatbelts, a disturbing sign, but when you get T-boned by a transport truck, seatbelts aren't likely to help.

    Here's my bet as to why Ontario has such good overall safety numbers: most such statistics are based on deaths-per-so-many-vehicle-kilometres travelled. It is well known that controlled-access highways are by far our safest roads, because the opportunities for T-bone or head-on crashes – by far the most dangerous type of car crash – are virtually eliminated.

    How ironic, again, that highways are also by far our fastest roads.

    And I'm guessing that Ontario has a higher percentage of traffic travelling on highways – 401 et al. – than just about anywhere.

    Hence, better overall safety numbers. Just a guess.

    Not that I am trying to make light of street racing. Okay, I am, but I am not condoning it. Sure, it is an issue, but statistically it is a very small issue.

    And automatically slapping that label on anyone who goes 50 over the artificially low speed limit (20 over what I think should be the real limit) isn't going to help.

    If you want to do something intelligent about speed on our highways, try following the lead of other jurisdictions that have done it successfully.

    The key? Set a realistic speed limit, one that the driving public will buy into, and enforce it consistently.

    Most Ontario highways can easily handle 130 km/h. They do, for hundreds of thousands of cars, every day.

    So make that the limit, make sure we all know it, and apply the needed enforcement.

    Geez, if they can make it work in France – and they have – why won't it work here? Surely it's worth a try.

    Oh yeah, it wouldn't hurt if we could do something about our lane discipline too.

    Imagine, roads that are faster, more efficient and safer!

    Dare to dream, Julian. Dare to dream.

    Wheels' chief auto correspondent Jim Kenzie can be reached at jim@jimkenzie.com

  7. #37
    Caddyshack100 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    Great article, Jim is one of my favorite automotive writers and it is for him that I buy the Sat Star for the Wheels section, at least with him, speed is put into perspective and not hysteria, not like his colleague that writes for the same section, Ian Law.

  8. #38
    icbones@sympatico.ca is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    The critisism over section 172 of the HTA (Anti-racing law) is going on at several Car, Gun and Motorcycle forums. The vast majority of people see this law as the tax grab that it is. As well, on every forum there is some good little government droid or the vindictive grieving friend/relative of a victim of a car crash that is out on a mission to get even with everybody on the road except themselves.

    All though you don't read it in the papers or hear it on the news, Ontario has some of the safest drivers in North America, yes we all see stupid things and we probably all do careless things at some time or other. For the most part drivers in Ontario are safe and courteous. But all we hear in the news is the negative portrayal of drivers as aggressive and dangerous. During the summer months every week in the newspapers the headlines advertise another "Blitz" or "crackdown" or "Zero Tolerance" OPP initiative regarding seatbelts, aggressive driving, speeding, or whatever else they can think of. We all see Cam Wolley and Fantino bleating about what poor drivers we are, while he skips the fact that cops are not subject to the same extreme penalties of our street racing law.

    Do bad that news hounds don't mention the number of times drivers help each other out. During power outages when major intersections become four way stop signs, very few incidences occur during these times. One would think that with all the talk of aggressiveness out there, mass hysteria would turn us into homicidal motor maniacs when the traffic lights fail.

    Consider the amount of construction that motorists put up with and the crappy condition of many roads in Ontario, I think would should get some praise from Wolley and Fantino every once in a while. I guess praise doesn't rake in the revenue that fines do?

  9. #39
    EISKALT is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    this law is silly, at this thought of losing your car whos going to stop, NOt me

    So far it's worked!!

  10. #40
    KlrOntherd is offline Banned
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    What about the others on the road.
    What about the others.
    The others that are not racing.
    The others that are just driving.
    What about the others on the road.
    The others that are using the roads as meant to be.
    As a way to get from here to there.
    As a way to live.
    Not to play.
    But to live.
    What about the others on the highways that are made to handle high speeds.
    What about the others that pay taxes for the roads that are to last.
    What about the others that realize they are meant to last but just happen to also be able to handle high speed.
    What about the others that drive to get from A to B

    Who cares about those ?
    Who doesnt care about those ?

    What about the person breaking the law.
    What about the person who thinks the law doesnt matter.
    What about the person breaking the law set for our society that felt it was beyond them.
    What about the person whom broke the law and now my wife, child, father, mother, and or me is now dead.

    Hows about the law doesnt matter anymore.
    Hows about you think the law is wrong.
    Hows about you disobey the law anyways.
    Hows about someone makes you eat a gun and blows your head off ?

    Hows about you slow down where every one else is concerned.

    Hows about
    I will only shoot my gun on the range
    And hows about
    You will only race on a track.

    Fair is fair. Law is law

    If not then you can race around me all over the roads. But I can then come into your home and shoot wildly.

    It is the law.
    If you feel a particular law doesnt work for you within your society. Then you have decided that any law is a free for all.
    And that means a free for all on any law for any one.

    Please tell me your address and I will come to your home. Your work place. wherever you may be just so that I can do things to put you in jeopardy, and or piss you off , and or ......break laws that you agree with but I think are wrong.

    Please let me know where you are sos that I can do what i feel I want to because I dont agree with what anyone else says and or justifies by law. Please tell me sos that I can be like you and run amuk and be-do what I feel is best for me and not give a care about anyone else.

    Please tell me where I can find you and your family (mano-mano) sos that I can show you the laws of society that I dont agree with.

  11. #41
    Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    Quote Originally Posted by KlrOntherd View Post
    What about the others on the road.
    What about the others.
    The others that are not racing.
    The others that are just driving.
    What about the others on the road.
    The others that are using the roads as meant to be.
    As a way to get from here to there.
    As a way to live.
    Not to play.
    But to live.
    What about the others on the highways that are made to handle high speeds.
    What about the others that pay taxes for the roads that are to last.
    What about the others that realize they are meant to last but just happen to also be able to handle high speed.
    What about the others that drive to get from A to B

    Who cares about those ?
    Who doesnt care about those ?

    What about the person breaking the law.
    What about the person who thinks the law doesnt matter.
    What about the person breaking the law set for our society that felt it was beyond them.
    What about the person whom broke the law and now my wife, child, father, mother, and or me is now dead.

    Hows about the law doesnt matter anymore.
    Hows about you think the law is wrong.
    Hows about you disobey the law anyways.
    Hows about someone makes you eat a gun and blows your head off ?

    Hows about you slow down where every one else is concerned.

    Hows about
    I will only shoot my gun on the range
    And hows about
    You will only race on a track.

    Fair is fair. Law is law

    If not then you can race around me all over the roads. But I can then come into your home and shoot wildly.

    It is the law.
    If you feel a particular law doesnt work for you within your society. Then you have decided that any law is a free for all.
    And that means a free for all on any law for any one.

    Please tell me your address and I will come to your home. Your work place. wherever you may be just so that I can do things to put you in jeopardy, and or piss you off , and or ......break laws that you agree with but I think are wrong.

    Please let me know where you are sos that I can do what i feel I want to because I dont agree with what anyone else says and or justifies by law. Please tell me sos that I can be like you and run amuk and be-do what I feel is best for me and not give a care about anyone else.

    Please tell me where I can find you and your family (mano-mano) sos that I can show you the laws of society that I dont agree with.
    It's sad that so many people don't understand the problem with this law. The problem is NOT the intent. The problem is the implementation.

    There is WAY too much power to let the cop suspend and impound your car on the side of the street. A cop can pull me over and say I was stunt driving with absolutely zero proof. So I go to court and I fight it off. So what? The cop gets no punishment, yet I'm out impound fees, and the license suspension goes on my record. Insurance finds out, I'm 22 with a license suspension for "street racing". Who do you think is going to insure me?

    I don't even need to be doing anything wrong. If you have been keeping up to date with this law you would have seen that a ridiculous amount of charges were COMPLETELY dropped when they went to court. Some were reduced to a lesser charge, but a lot were COMPLETELY dropped. Yet, all those people still paid impound fees and insurance hikes.

    There was one guy who got interviewed. He didn't signal a lane change and was charged for "stunting". HOW IS THAT STREET RACING?! I hate people that don't signal lane changes, but that is NOT street racing. The cops have WAY too much power.

    And as for "LAW IS LAW". 100% absolute bullshit. Again, have you been keeping up to date with the events surrounding this law?

    Read this: http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.c...aspx?e=1290712

    OPP officer cleared of stunt-driving charge
    Racism behind allegation, constable says
    Posted By GALEN EAGLE, EXAMINER COURT WRITER
    Posted 10 days ago


    Peterborough County OPP Const. Lloyd Tapp was found not guilty yesterday on charges of stunt driving and careless driving.

    The 43-year-old officer had strong words for the fellow officer who made the allegations against him and those that investigated the case.

    "Like I have been saying all along, the whole charge was a crock of lies," Tapp said. "The evidence you have heard today in court is a clear indication of the shoddy investigations of the Ontario Provincial Police."

    Questioning why charges were laid against him, Tapp said he is a visible minority who has made four claims to the Ontario Human Rights Commission against the OPP since 2005.

    "One might ask then, why were charges laid when such a strong prima facie case existed with a lack of evidence to even substantiate a charge?" he said. "What the public has heard today in court, the public should take heed to the type of so-called professional investigations and integrity of investigations by OPP."

    Tapp was charged April 8 with driving at least 50 km/h over the speed limit and careless driving on Highway 115 in Cavan Monaghan Township on March 25.

    Tapp was one of several Peterborough County OPP officers who agreed to provide security detail at Queen's Park during the release of the provincial budget March 25, court heard.

    OPP Const. Brenda Donnelly travelled with Tapp to Toronto in a marked cruiser, she testified. The two left the Peterborough detachment at about 3:37 a. m. and arrived in Toronto for briefing at about 4:45 a. m., she said.

    En route to Toronto, Donnelly said Tapp was driving 180 km/h along Highway 115, between 140 to 160 km/h on the 401 and was obeying the speed limit on the Don Valley Parkway.

    "We started going fast, excessive speeds," she told court. "The speedometer was pointing in my direction ... it was at the 180 km/h mark. We travelled that speed for quite a ways, most of the 115."

    Donnelly said she didn't say anything to Tapp because she had to work with him for the rest of the day. She made a formal police statement six days later, court heard.

    Continued After Advertisement Below

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    Defence lawyer William MacKenzie questioned why Donnelly didn't stop Tapp if he was driving at such speeds.

    "On your evidence, you sat there quietly while a member of the police service broke the law. You failed to uphold your duties as a sworn officer, correct," MacKenzie asked.

    "Yes, yes I did," Donnelly replied.

    Tapp testified he wasn't paying attention to the speedometer but was going with the flow of traffic. He said he would never drive at such "ridiculous" speeds.

    "Personally, it's against my code of ethics to travel at that speed," Tapp testified.

    MacKenzie argued Donnelly was a poor witness who didn't take any notes of the incident. Her testimony also diverged from her police statement, court heard. She told police Tapp travelled 180 km/h the entire way to Toronto, MacKenzie noted.

    Given the 134 kilometres between the detachment and Queen's Park and the timeline Donnelly provided, MacKenzie said Tapp couldn't have driven more than 50 km/h over the speed limit.

    "The mathematics don't lie here," MacKenzie said.

    Justice of the peace Douglas Clark ruled the Crown did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.
    So... A POLICE OFFICER in the passenger seat, who testifies that her partner was speeding, going 180km/h for MINUTES, cannot get a conviction. YET, some cop on the street can accuse me of stunt driving and take my car on the spot?

    "FAIR IS FAIR"?????? "LAW IS LAW"???? Are you a cop?!

  12. #42
    EISKALT is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    shoot wildy ?

    the very reason you shouldnt be driving either,
    some people can drive better, have control over there shooting etc......
    there are plenty of slow drivers who are more of a danger then faster ones,

    qoute:Please tell me your address and I will come to your home. Your work place. wherever you may be just so that I can do things to put you in jeopardy, and or piss you off , and or ......break laws that you agree with but I think are wrong.

    sounds like your already running amuk, or off your meds.

  13. #43
    Chadillac182's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Lose Car over 50 over limit

    Quote Originally Posted by 97EldoCoupe View Post
    It's careless speeding that's the issue. And someone explain how this makes sense: I live 5 houses from a school of approx 800 kids. 10 in the morning, when school's in session, I hear a speeding motorbike, I look out the window, a bike flies past my house doing at least 160 km/h, or 100 MPH. toward the school. Guess what?! An OPP cruiser was right behind, doing the same speed. Toward the school, only 5 houses away from me. What gives the cops the rights to endanger kids' lives like that? To me it doesn't matter what the guy on the bike did, the cop had no right to chase him past a school. That's plain rediculous. Cops speed when they shouldn't, and to me this is an example of it. They have all the rights, eh?

    I'm running a Cobra radar detector. I forget which model but it has the digital readout and voice alert. It has saved my butt a few times. 3kms ahead of time it'll go off, if a cop is ahead. And I can pass by them with that puppy on, and they can't detect it. I hide it when I see a cruiser, or if I'm driving in town. But out on the highway it has never let me down. I don't believe in rediculously high speeds, but every now and then I get my car up to about 100-110 MPH (160-180km/h). Not for long, and only on open roads with no traffic. But the speed limit is 80km/h on country roads around me, with nothing in sight but two lanes and yellow stripes. Why the heck would you NOT speed? Cops are after the money, not keeping the roads safe.

    Explain this one to me. I'm driving 90km/h. All of a sudden I see a cop in my rear view. I drop down to 80, and she (yes a female officer) passes me. So I match her speed with a safe following distance. She does 95 km/h. All of a sudden she slams her brakes and hits the shoulder, hoping that I'll pass her doing a speed her radar detector will pick up. Luckily I hit the brakes right after and dropped below the speed limit, so she couldn't get a reading. If we can't speed, why should they. If we stay behind them and keep up, what's the harm?

    Yes, some (the odd one) cops do the public big favours and they help us out. Others, kick you when you're down. They pick on people who can't afford tickets, and are just driving to work so they can feed their kids and family. Pull us over, fine. Tell us we were speeding. Fine. Let us off with a warning. Most people will slow down with a warning alone. Taking our money, our cars, 10 thousand dollar fines? What the hell? This is C-A-N-A-D-A. Our police system is supposed to help people. Instead we have the mafia in uniforms, and our tax dollars are filling their tanks.

    I saw one officer in Toronto I think, help a lady change her flat tire. Round of applause to that officer. I'd do the same if I were in uniform. Cops like that, we could use.
    100% AGREE here!! I'm a young guy with a few Cadillac's, these cops are only out for cash... And I've seen it first hand.

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