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Cadillac XTS Forum Discussion, XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14 in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by musvlehead Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App Thats the nicest XTS I have seen. Your giving me some ...
  1. #46
    BEarle is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Quote Originally Posted by musvlehead
    Thats the nicest XTS I have seen. Your giving me some ideas! Lol

  2. #47
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    Re: XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14

    Quote Originally Posted by malatu View Post
    Very interesting read. For my own selfish reasons, I think it would be a mistake to try to transform the Cadillac into an elite upper-end vehicle competing with the likes of Mercedes Benz (you didn't write those words, but that's how I interpreted it). You went back to the 1920's to make a point. I'd like to do the same. General Motors created a stripped down Cadillac called the LaSalle to fill a niche. They were made on the same production line as Cadillacs and were sold in Cadillac dealerships. Sometimes history repeats itself.

    Times have greatly changed since then, but it's interesting to compare situations.
    True but laSalle was a separate marque a-la Rolex/Tudor, Ferrari/Dino, Honda/Acura, Mercedes/Smart, BMW/Mini. its mission was not to be a Cadillac, but to fill a gap below Cadillac, not quite the same thing as 'a stripped down Cadillac' as you put it, like say the Catera or Cimmaron.

    GM is attempting a good/better/best strategy with its brands we'll see how that shakes out, as far as it being a mistake to make an elite upper end vehicle, i'm of two minds on this on one hand walking away from regular folks is rarely pretty especially when you are the one who is having the nose turned up upon and making them unattainable to most would be a little sad. on the other hand as a flag waving 'mercian why should the Europeans have all the fun and the glory of supercars, superluxury, historic brands, and Cadillac has a rich and aged provenance equal to the likes of Rolls-Royce, Mercedes-Benz etc. frankly i wouldn't mind seeing Cadillac go after a Halo Hypercar like the R8, or buy an F1 team and trickle the tech down to an SLS AMG beater maybe like the Cadillac Cien in the movie 'The Island', i would be thrilled to see the best of the best stuff of teenage boys car posters in europe come from this side of the pond, like the Ferrari and Lamborghini posters i had as a kid came from there.

  3. #48
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    Re: XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14

    Yes, you said it better....... not a stripped down Cadillac but a car to "fill the a gap". The La Salle in 1927 filled a gap and was meant to compete with the Packard luxury 6 cylinder (yes, they even had luxury 6 cylinders back then). Packard offered a luxury car with a price point lower than the Cadillac and was eating up the luxury car share. To reiterate my point..... will history repeat itself if Cadillac walked away from the regular folks. Would the existing gap be filled by Buick? I doubt it.

    I appreciate the waiving of the American flag. Unfortunately, it's all about the the bottom-line! It's all about market-share. I just don't think GM would be doing itself or its stock holders any favors by pulling away from the regular folks.

  4. #49
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    Re: XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14

    Possibly so, then again to paraphrase bob lutz who has said that the material cost is relatively the same from car to car so if it doesn't cost much more to make a CTS than an ATS then they could be playing the crazy like a fox move of higher profit per unit. Seems to me they could chase market share and volume with Chevy and trucks and chase the higher margins with Cadillac making a scenario that's even better for the stockholders

  5. #50
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    DG2
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    Cadillac created the luxury car segment in America. Marilyn Monroe Elvis Pressley any baseball star , movie star and top business executives didn't want to drive a Mercedes Benz or BMW they only wanted myCadillac. Hence they are not copying Mercedes-Benz or anybody else Cadillac is just getting back to where they once where, being the most sort after luxury car in the world.

    It's a rich wonderful " all American" past that is brilliantly being revamped to be the modern day standard. By 2018 I predict Cadillac will reclaim the top spot as long as they keep making cars like the 2014 CTS and ATS. Can't wait to see the top if line sedan and hopefully a Convertable to rival the SL. .

  6. #51
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    I don't understand why the xts is being perceived as a bad car or not "premium" do you guys all have one and like them? 60k is a lot of money yes but I think it is neck and neck with the competition in that range.

  7. #52
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    Re: XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14

    please don't misunderstand, the XTS is certainly a nice car, it will forever have difficulty joining the premium ranks for several reasons one being it having front wheel drive. FWD in and of itself is ok but it's not premium having limitations and FWD being effectively limited to roughly 300 HP is a big problem, since excessive power bordering on the obscene and premium cars have been stablemates almost from the beginning. torque steer is another barrier to premium, wrestling with your car every time you try to pass or accelerate onto the freeway is not something you want to pay extra for. the XTS V-Sport is interesting it certainly is a great step, and a strategy proven by Audi as they are the only marque that I'm aware of that has successfully made FWD platforms premium, but even here, the solution to the limitation problem is AWD and Quattro is a masterful example of getting your message out there. V-Sport is nice but Cadillac being forced into reducing power/torque is kinda not fun, and being forced into AWD whether you want it or not just to get the nice one is less than premium as well. probably the biggest barrier is our memory leaving out the V cars of late, ask yourself what was the last unquestionably supercool Cadillac you can remember? .... it probably is a car you might associate with Elvis and there's the rub shortly after those unquestionably awesome cars of the 60's and early 70's Cadillac began its malaise period turning it's back on premium and RWD and went down a path of Wall Street like profiteering by selling us overpriced rebadged Chevy FWD cars for 30 years. the XTS perception of it being the nicest version of the LaCrosse/Impala and the most recent example of the malaise period cars with the idea that the torch was handed to it from the DTS is a perception it needs to shake to pull off an Audi and be seen as the bees knees.

  8. #53
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    Re: XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14

    ^^^ Good points. I will also repeat that no one has implied that the XTS is a "bad" car. It was created to fill the gap of the departing DTS and as Pissedoffwookie said, it will never compete with the flagships from the other brands, primarily because it is FWD based and shares that platform with down market cars. Again, that doesn't make it bad, but it cheapens it somewhat and in a price range where perception matters almost as much as performance, it will hurt the XTS.

    I came from the Acura brand after 20 years. They are suffering from a similar problem. They seem to stubbornly refuse to build a RWD platform car for their flagship. The last gen RL, while only available in SH-AWD, it was still a FWD based setup and the SH-AWD was biased towards the front wheels. That mattered little as SH-AWD was really pretty amazing and it probably out handled many RWD cars, but it was perception.

    So what do they do?

    They introduce the RLX and initially it is only available in FWD form. A new e-SH-AWD will be coming out soon, but in my opinion the car is already doomed as most people have written it off. Current RLX sales numbers and incentives seem to back up my opinion.

    ... and while Acura (Honda) makes some extremely reliable cars, the perception that they are just "dressed up Accords" prevents them from ever being considered a true tier I luxury brand.

    Lexus (speaking only of cars) has he FWD ES, but the rest of their lineup from the IS to the GS and finally the LS are all RWD based cars
    Infiniti doesn't offer any FWD cars
    BMW doesn't offer any FWD cars (not counting the Mini which is a different brand)
    Mercedes is just now offering a FWD entry level car in the CLA, but the rest of the models are RWD based
    Audi as mentioned seems to be the only ones who have been able to pull off selling FWD platforms in the luxury brands, but probably wouldn't have if they didn't have Quattro, which makes you wonder why Acura can't do it with SH-AWD.

  9. #54
    BEarle is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    The XTS is def a premium car, I was watching something the other day on the new 2014 S Class and some of the technology that they were mentioning the XTS already has for legit half the price, you can pay $100+ for S class or $45k for what I paid for a new premium XTS with the same options and in my opinion better styling. All the new S class is is a larger E Class you can't tell the difference between the benzes anymore.

  10. #55
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    On the topic of flagship and Cadillac....

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...lac-coupe.html

  11. #56
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    Re: XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14

    It's not price, performance or features that keep the XTS from being considered premium it's desire and image. In other words what the premium buyer desires and the image they want to take part of or invest in.

    The logic that XTS has x, y, z feature over the twice as expensive Mercedes therefore it's premium doesn't work. Let's use that logic in another context and see what happens:

    The Casio calculator watch is premium because it keeps better time than a Rolex, has more features than a Rolex, and at the current price of $24.99 at target has a lot better price than the $7000 Rolex

    So watch aficionados will tell you that Japanese watchmaking has surpassed Swiss watchmaking in precision and price ages ago and it certainly can be said a calculator and digital screen are features that are a miss for Rolex But if for one second you think there is any truth in the previous statement or the thought that Casio can even be mentioned in the same breath as the de-facto standard bearer, most universally known brand in the premium ranks. Then frankly nothing can sway you because you drank the cool aid

    Granted XTS vs Mercedes is not as drastic as Casio vs Rolex but the point is the same as fine a car as XTS is and as cool a watch as Casios can be, they are not what premium buyers want because they cannot do for these buyers what they would like them to do

  12. #57
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    You're right, it's a Timex.

    I see it as a rebadged Buick, FWD, V6 in a V8, RWD marketplace. The XTS cannot attract the people that want a V8, but come to their senses at sign up time and opt for the C350. The few people I know that purchased an XTS did so because it was a good value and a nice car, not because it spoke to them or it's a great driver. They bought it because it's a very nice Buick and a bargain.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koooop
    You're right, it's a Timex. I see it as a rebadged Buick, FWD, V6 in a V8, RWD marketplace. The XTS cannot attract the people that want a V8, but come to their senses at sign up time and opt for the C350. The few people I know that purchased an XTS did so because it was a good value and a nice car, not because it spoke to them or it's a great driver. They bought it because it's a very nice Buick and a bargain.
    I wouldn't call it a Timex, but it's also no S Class competitor as another person posted. Anyone who says that clearly hasn't been an S Class or driven one.

  14. #59
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    I feel compelled to reply to your post in order to bring some credibility to what you have just said, I have to agree with you, That was a major factor in my decision making.MSRP was 60K but I had the GM discount, also a discount if anyone in the family owned a GM vehicle, My buddy wrote it up as a demo as if it had some miles on it but it was brand new&he charged me there cost price..Now with all the options in this car,the gorgeous styling, the Cadillac name etc etc.. pound for pound.. bang for your Buck.. it was a no brainer.. I signed on the doded line instantly lol To be honest with you I was looking at the BMW 5series but choose the XTS based on value&what I was getting.compared to what BMW offered, I am glad I did, When a 5 Series see's me comin they move out of the way&then look in awwwww at the Monster who looks like it will swallow them..Just wish it had more power!! It needs atleast at a minimum 400hp and I wasn't going to pay an extra 10k for the V-Sport in order to gain an extra 100hp a stiffer(sport) suspension and a sportier front grille.I also want to point out some of the other guys saying it's also an image a perception that goes hand In hand when an individual chooses the BMW or BENZ this is a major major reason in therr pursuit as if to say to there neighbors&the general public look at me I made it, I'm fancy,I'm classy, I'm richer&better then you, some of that is true and That's what's promting Cadillac to some degree to make all these changes..To demand the same kinda respect to leave no doubt in anyones mind that a Cadillac will make u feel special the same way a BMW or MERCEDES does..


    Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

  15. #60
    musvlehead is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    You make good points my friend the XTS is a rebadged vehicle sharing it's platform with other gm models, I don't like that at all.. I'm from Detroit I see all the car makers models early&in numbers for example I'm starting to see the new impala and when I do I feel weird the resemblence to the xts is little to much=turn otf=not special..In no way shape or form am I saying the xts is a bad car it's just needs to be clear on who and what it is.. it should stand alone.that being said I still love it...

    Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

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