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XTS TO BE DISCONTINUED!! Production run 2013-14

35K views 103 replies 38 participants last post by  NormV 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone

Just left the Caddy dealership were i bought my XTS mainly because i have known the manager who runs the whole dealership for 20years..As a matter of fact he always has a Caddy as a Demo for his personal use and so far Ive driven the XTS VSPORT and the new CTS both great cars but i am afraid for the CTS his demo msrp was 64k hmmmmm i have my concerns..Anyway he began to tell me that they are stopping production of the XTS and that 2013 and 2014 models will be the only years of production for the XTS model to make way for a big flagship Cadillac with a V8 to rival the S-class and 7 series ...He even said its projected to cost between 80 to 100k ....Then he said they only made the XTS because they needed a larger model for the time being to fill in the gap...So a 2 year run for the highly touted flagship XTS anyone else feel weird/awkward about this??
 
#37 ·
musvlehead said:
Well said and usually the case but nothing is written in stone. I'm from Detroit were the decisions are handed down and my dealership is either number 1or2 in relation with vehicles sild each year, The salesman/manager/friend of mine for 20years is a stand up guy and personally knows a few executives who work downtown at the GM Corp building, They visit his dealership from time to time as well. He assured me that the decision has been made and a large V8 is around the corner. It kinda makes sense if there gunning for BMW 3 Series=ATS 5 series=CTS and 7 series=the new rear wheel drive V8..This must be done if Cadillac is to be taken seriously as well as respected if they want to compete in the global matket..Where the XTS stands is the question, I mean I want it to be a rumor I absolutely love the car. I guess time will tell and we will all just have to wait and see what happens.
Car looks awesome! You have more pictures?
 
#41 ·
There will always be a place for uninspired, soulless automobiles.
 
#43 · (Edited)
GM's stated plans, and some rumors:

GM has said they're refocusing, they've also said the bankruptcy has enabled some new focus and direction change and remove some overlap such as shedding Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac, and Saab, and shrinking their dealer network, this was to keep dealers from eating each other (ie Saturn outlook/chevy traverse, and Pontiac solstice/Saturn sky) and to ensure the remaining dealers have a nicer slice of the pie....healthier dealer network = healthier GM.

GM has plans to focus their efforts globally, by making Chevy the everyman brand competing with ford, toyota ect, making Buick the near luxury brand competing with infinity, acura, etc, and making cadillac their top tier competing with the germans. as such GM had plans to convert Cadillac into a mercedes/bmw style company with rear wheel drive as a cornerstone, this was interupted by the bankruptcy which by the time was done put GM 18 months behind on developement. XTS was a platform they had in their hip pocket (basically a stetch lacrosse) and they needed a quick big car as a stopgap.....this is all from GM in various news outlets, and books from former executives and press releases.

here are the Rumors:

XTS on a front drive platform will have only one generation, but will probably live out a proper 5 to 6 year lifecycle to pay for itself, and Cadillac is resuming its conversion to RWD sedans

rumored big car to continue Cadillacs product alignment with mercedes/bmw rumored to be called LTS, but could be called anything at this point

so theres truth in what the OP was told by his friend but there's truth in what other posters have written in regards to 2 years being too short a lifecycle.

cadillac invested in XTS V-Sport and CTS and ATS in order to increase marketshare and are targeting 100,000 sedans sales next year.

another poster mentioned 'traditional' Cadillacs, by which one could assume meant the land yachts of the 60's, 70's, and 80's as the cadillac tradition of luxury, but i think Cadillac is reaching further back when joe the plumber drove a model-t; back then Cadillac was the boss even over Mercedes of the era, and in their evolution their paths forked and Cadillacs became more attainable from the super rich, to executive/doctor/lawyer class to every day professionals, but Mercedes remained at the top and Cadillac wants that top spot globally, and since we know how their cars have changed Cadillac has pivoted in that direction
 
#45 ·
Very interesting read. For my own selfish reasons, I think it would be a mistake to try to transform the Cadillac into an elite upper-end vehicle competing with the likes of Mercedes Benz (you didn't write those words, but that's how I interpreted it). You went back to the 1920's to make a point. I'd like to do the same. General Motors created a stripped down Cadillac called the LaSalle to fill a niche. They were made on the same production line as Cadillacs and were sold in Cadillac dealerships. Sometimes history repeats itself.

Times have greatly changed since then, but it's interesting to compare situations.
 
#48 ·
Yes, you said it better....... not a stripped down Cadillac but a car to "fill the a gap". The La Salle in 1927 filled a gap and was meant to compete with the Packard luxury 6 cylinder (yes, they even had luxury 6 cylinders back then). Packard offered a luxury car with a price point lower than the Cadillac and was eating up the luxury car share. To reiterate my point..... will history repeat itself if Cadillac walked away from the regular folks. Would the existing gap be filled by Buick? I doubt it.

I appreciate the waiving of the American flag. Unfortunately, it's all about the the bottom-line! It's all about market-share. I just don't think GM would be doing itself or its stock holders any favors by pulling away from the regular folks.
 
#49 ·
Possibly so, then again to paraphrase bob lutz who has said that the material cost is relatively the same from car to car so if it doesn't cost much more to make a CTS than an ATS then they could be playing the crazy like a fox move of higher profit per unit. Seems to me they could chase market share and volume with Chevy and trucks and chase the higher margins with Cadillac making a scenario that's even better for the stockholders
 
#50 ·
Cadillac created the luxury car segment in America. Marilyn Monroe Elvis Pressley any baseball star , movie star and top business executives didn't want to drive a Mercedes Benz or BMW they only wanted myCadillac. Hence they are not copying Mercedes-Benz or anybody else Cadillac is just getting back to where they once where, being the most sort after luxury car in the world.

It's a rich wonderful " all American" past that is brilliantly being revamped to be the modern day standard. By 2018 I predict Cadillac will reclaim the top spot as long as they keep making cars like the 2014 CTS and ATS. Can't wait to see the top if line sedan and hopefully a Convertable to rival the SL. :).
 
#52 ·
please don't misunderstand, the XTS is certainly a nice car, it will forever have difficulty joining the premium ranks for several reasons one being it having front wheel drive. FWD in and of itself is ok but it's not premium having limitations and FWD being effectively limited to roughly 300 HP is a big problem, since excessive power bordering on the obscene and premium cars have been stablemates almost from the beginning. torque steer is another barrier to premium, wrestling with your car every time you try to pass or accelerate onto the freeway is not something you want to pay extra for. the XTS V-Sport is interesting it certainly is a great step, and a strategy proven by Audi as they are the only marque that I'm aware of that has successfully made FWD platforms premium, but even here, the solution to the limitation problem is AWD and Quattro is a masterful example of getting your message out there. V-Sport is nice but Cadillac being forced into reducing power/torque is kinda not fun, and being forced into AWD whether you want it or not just to get the nice one is less than premium as well. probably the biggest barrier is our memory leaving out the V cars of late, ask yourself what was the last unquestionably supercool Cadillac you can remember? .... it probably is a car you might associate with Elvis and there's the rub shortly after those unquestionably awesome cars of the 60's and early 70's Cadillac began its malaise period turning it's back on premium and RWD and went down a path of Wall Street like profiteering by selling us overpriced rebadged Chevy FWD cars for 30 years. the XTS perception of it being the nicest version of the LaCrosse/Impala and the most recent example of the malaise period cars with the idea that the torch was handed to it from the DTS is a perception it needs to shake to pull off an Audi and be seen as the bees knees.
 
#53 ·
^^^ Good points. I will also repeat that no one has implied that the XTS is a "bad" car. It was created to fill the gap of the departing DTS and as Pissedoffwookie said, it will never compete with the flagships from the other brands, primarily because it is FWD based and shares that platform with down market cars. Again, that doesn't make it bad, but it cheapens it somewhat and in a price range where perception matters almost as much as performance, it will hurt the XTS.

I came from the Acura brand after 20 years. They are suffering from a similar problem. They seem to stubbornly refuse to build a RWD platform car for their flagship. The last gen RL, while only available in SH-AWD, it was still a FWD based setup and the SH-AWD was biased towards the front wheels. That mattered little as SH-AWD was really pretty amazing and it probably out handled many RWD cars, but it was perception.

So what do they do?

They introduce the RLX and initially it is only available in FWD form. A new e-SH-AWD will be coming out soon, but in my opinion the car is already doomed as most people have written it off. Current RLX sales numbers and incentives seem to back up my opinion.

... and while Acura (Honda) makes some extremely reliable cars, the perception that they are just "dressed up Accords" prevents them from ever being considered a true tier I luxury brand.

Lexus (speaking only of cars) has he FWD ES, but the rest of their lineup from the IS to the GS and finally the LS are all RWD based cars
Infiniti doesn't offer any FWD cars
BMW doesn't offer any FWD cars (not counting the Mini which is a different brand)
Mercedes is just now offering a FWD entry level car in the CLA, but the rest of the models are RWD based
Audi as mentioned seems to be the only ones who have been able to pull off selling FWD platforms in the luxury brands, but probably wouldn't have if they didn't have Quattro, which makes you wonder why Acura can't do it with SH-AWD.
 
#54 ·
The XTS is def a premium car, I was watching something the other day on the new 2014 S Class and some of the technology that they were mentioning the XTS already has for legit half the price, you can pay $100+ for S class or $45k for what I paid for a new premium XTS with the same options and in my opinion better styling. All the new S class is is a larger E Class you can't tell the difference between the benzes anymore.
 
#56 ·
It's not price, performance or features that keep the XTS from being considered premium it's desire and image. In other words what the premium buyer desires and the image they want to take part of or invest in.

The logic that XTS has x, y, z feature over the twice as expensive Mercedes therefore it's premium doesn't work. Let's use that logic in another context and see what happens:

The Casio calculator watch is premium because it keeps better time than a Rolex, has more features than a Rolex, and at the current price of $24.99 at target has a lot better price than the $7000 Rolex

So watch aficionados will tell you that Japanese watchmaking has surpassed Swiss watchmaking in precision and price ages ago and it certainly can be said a calculator and digital screen are features that are a miss for Rolex But if for one second you think there is any truth in the previous statement or the thought that Casio can even be mentioned in the same breath as the de-facto standard bearer, most universally known brand in the premium ranks. Then frankly nothing can sway you because you drank the cool aid

Granted XTS vs Mercedes is not as drastic as Casio vs Rolex but the point is the same as fine a car as XTS is and as cool a watch as Casios can be, they are not what premium buyers want because they cannot do for these buyers what they would like them to do
 
#57 ·
You're right, it's a Timex.

I see it as a rebadged Buick, FWD, V6 in a V8, RWD marketplace. The XTS cannot attract the people that want a V8, but come to their senses at sign up time and opt for the C350. The few people I know that purchased an XTS did so because it was a good value and a nice car, not because it spoke to them or it's a great driver. They bought it because it's a very nice Buick and a bargain.
 
#58 ·
Koooop said:
You're right, it's a Timex. I see it as a rebadged Buick, FWD, V6 in a V8, RWD marketplace. The XTS cannot attract the people that want a V8, but come to their senses at sign up time and opt for the C350. The few people I know that purchased an XTS did so because it was a good value and a nice car, not because it spoke to them or it's a great driver. They bought it because it's a very nice Buick and a bargain.
I wouldn't call it a Timex, but it's also no S Class competitor as another person posted. Anyone who says that clearly hasn't been an S Class or driven one.
 
#59 ·
I feel compelled to reply to your post in order to bring some credibility to what you have just said, I have to agree with you, That was a major factor in my decision making.MSRP was 60K but I had the GM discount, also a discount if anyone in the family owned a GM vehicle, My buddy wrote it up as a demo as if it had some miles on it but it was brand new&he charged me there cost price..Now with all the options in this car,the gorgeous styling, the Cadillac name etc etc.. pound for pound.. bang for your Buck.. it was a no brainer.. I signed on the doded line instantly lol To be honest with you I was looking at the BMW 5series but choose the XTS based on value&what I was getting.compared to what BMW offered, I am glad I did, When a 5 Series see's me comin they move out of the way&then look in awwwww at the Monster who looks like it will swallow them..Just wish it had more power!! It needs atleast at a minimum 400hp and I wasn't going to pay an extra 10k for the V-Sport in order to gain an extra 100hp a stiffer(sport) suspension and a sportier front grille.I also want to point out some of the other guys saying it's also an image a perception that goes hand In hand when an individual chooses the BMW or BENZ this is a major major reason in therr pursuit as if to say to there neighbors&the general public look at me I made it, I'm fancy,I'm classy, I'm richer&better then you, some of that is true and That's what's promting Cadillac to some degree to make all these changes..To demand the same kinda respect to leave no doubt in anyones mind that a Cadillac will make u feel special the same way a BMW or MERCEDES does..


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#60 ·
You make good points my friend the XTS is a rebadged vehicle sharing it's platform with other gm models, I don't like that at all.. I'm from Detroit I see all the car makers models early&in numbers for example I'm starting to see the new impala and when I do I feel weird the resemblence to the xts is little to much=turn otf=not special..In no way shape or form am I saying the xts is a bad car it's just needs to be clear on who and what it is.. it should stand alone.that being said I still love it...

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#62 ·
Cadillac on the whole is not a premium brand........yet!!

unfortunately when someone is told their expensive new toy is not considered premium, that statement may be deemed offensive to the person who doesn't want to hear it.

the reality is, premium luxury items are far from necessary, and usually you'll pay many times over for the premium item over even the better item at times. so why do they do it, because they can afford to pay to live in a slightly different world. a world where the concern is not a gallon of milk is $3.99 at Walmart and $4.99 at Vons but a world where who cares what the milk cost i want milk, and they go to Whole foods and buy it (even though it's $5.99), why because that's where they can rub elbows with people like them, where they can park their bmw in wider spots and worry less about whether or not the Mercedes parked next to them will door ding their car vs the beat up ford in the Walmart parking because they know the Mercedes owner thinks the same way about their BMW, whereas we already know by the state of the beater car it matters not to them if you ding their car or they ding yours. this is the saturday morning ooh aah at you car in the parking lot at the golf course world, if your car is incapable of generating these responses then premium it is not. the car that is probably the worst offender in the could be premium but is not is the Hyundai genesis.

Cadillac is knocking on the door of premium, in some cases they've arrived, escalade comes to mind, because many a premium buyer has a family and an escalade is parked next to their s-class.

ATS has a foot in the door, for the first time in a long time the press and people on the street take this car seriously, and many a 3 series owner has looked at this car and appreciate it, bought it or at least plan to cross shop it when their lease is up, this is a major win for Cadillac.

CTS it's too early to tell, but for now the press is on Cadillacs side

XTS is unique, there are really only 2 cars on the market like it, the RLX and the A6, all 3 are very nice cars, but only the Audi has premium status, but in spite of this status its not lighting up the sales charts like it supposed to; the 5 series and the E-class have been their Goldilocks models and A6 has not been able to dent that. the XTS V-Sport is a move in the right direction, my only wish is they never introduced the FWD model and made them all AWD, basically borrow the Quattro playbook and distance itself from the DTS any way they can, the iPad was a good move to, i wish they had not discontinued that for 2014

I'm rooting for Cadillac on their quest, and its my opinion that we as cadillac owners will benefit from their success, when they make it.
 
#63 · (Edited)
I enjoy reading your posts but you loose a bit credibility with me when you write "Cadillac is not a premium brand... yet"

Premium is a relative term and is a state of mind! The kid driving a honda with a rubber band muffler thinks of his ride as being premium. It's a person's opinion. You suggest the ATS has it's foot in the door as a premium car. .... and it so happens you drive an ATS! Surprise, surprise! I drive the STS and I think it has its foot in the door too! Surprise, Surprise. As I mentioned in a previous post, I'd just as well drive a honda or a toyota before an ATS or cts. That isn't intended to insult anyone who drives an ATS or CTS, it's just my personal feeling about smaller Cadillacs.

In my humble opinion, relative to ALL the cars on the market, I feel the Cadillac "on the whole" is a premium brand! Did I mention I drive a Cadillac? Surprise, surprise!
 
#64 ·
I enjoy reading your posts but you loose a bit credibility with me when you write "Cadillac is not a premium brand... yet"

Premium is a relative term and is a state of mind! The kid driving a honda with a rubber band muffler thinks of his ride as being premium. It's a person's opinion. You suggest the ATS has it's foot in the door as a premium car. .... and it so happens you drive an ATS! Surprise, surprise! I drive the STS and I think it has its foot in the door too! Surprise, Surprise. As I mentioned in a previous post, I'd just as well drive a honda or a toyota before an ATS or cts. That isn't intended to insult anyone who drives an ATS or CTS, it's just my personal feeling about smaller Cadillacs.

In my humble opinion, relative to ALL the cars on the market, in my opinion I feel the Cadillac "on the whole" is a premium brand! Did I mention I drive a Cadillac? Surprise, surprise!
yes true, Premium is a relative term, when i say ATS has its foot in the door, thats just its foot, its not there yet, it will take an immense effort to pass through that door, in fact the ATS probably has the hardest job of any Cadillac available today, lets not forget ATS was born into a segment that has the BMW 3 series in it, the BMW could arguably and legitimately be called the greatest sedan of all time, a sedan whose M variant is the best selling sports car in the world, a 20 year holder of '10 best' and is BMW's bread and butter, that's a huge job, one in which it has maybe just started to make a ***** in BMW's armor. ATS is meant to be the gateway drug into the Cadillac Cartels offerings.

"Cadillac" certainly means something this is a product of having been the top dog, and thankfully hasn't been completely wrecked by GM offerings in the 70's, 80's, and 90's a good example of this is in the lyrics "We're driving Cadillacs in our dream" from a song called "Royals" by a 17 year old from New Zealand. for the word Cadillac to still have some significance in world pop culture is huge and Cadillac rightfully should aspire to their prior glory. and i understand that it could sound self serving to say ATS has a foot in the door owning one, i assure you i don't think the ATS is premium yet, why? because far too many people at gas stations and shopping ask me "what's that?"...i say Cadillac and they say "Whoa, that's a Cadillac?", that is a conversation i'm confidant would never occur had i chosen a C-class or 3 series, my personal experience in this car is car enthusiasts know and appreciate ATS other people don't, so i say foot in the door, so tantalizingly close. its a shame really, if you say BMW or mercedes to a random person they get a mental image of success or a moneyed jerk yuppie but say Cadillac and an old man in Deville comes to mind, and this is Cadillacs unfortunate reality due to them not offering anything but that for 30 years, think about that, thats 2 or 3 generations of new drivers mindshare squandered. I say escalade made it because you say that and tiger woods, basket ball players and paparazi red carpet photos and music videos come to mind, that car made it. I say cadillac is not there yet, because one model isn't the whole brand, and as they slip new cars through that door, the brands premiumness, if you will, will rise.

by the way STS is very nice, and one of the cars, that certainly brought Cadillac forward, i personally think Cadillac might have named the new CTS STS instead, it has grown so much.
 
#65 ·
malatu said:
I enjoy reading your posts but you loose a bit credibility with me when you write "Cadillac is not a premium brand... yet" Premium is a relative term and is a state of mind! The kid driving a honda with a rubber band muffler thinks of his ride as being premium. It's a person's opinion. You suggest the ATS has it's foot in the door as a premium car. .... and it so happens you drive an ATS! Surprise, surprise! I drive the STS and I think it has its foot in the door too! Surprise, Surprise. As I mentioned in a previous post, I'd just as well drive a honda or a toyota before an ATS or cts. That isn't intended to insult anyone who drives an ATS or CTS, it's just my personal feeling about smaller Cadillacs. In my humble opinion, relative to ALL the cars on the market, in my opinion I feel the Cadillac "on the whole" is a premium brand! Did I mention I drive a Cadillac? Surprise, surprise!

The fact that you put a premium on size, or the kid driving a Civic puts a premium on different things does not make your vehicles "premium" cars from an industry perspective

Cadillac is not viewed as top level premium brand yet. That level, like it or not, still belongs to Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and you can lump Lexus into that group too. You put value in size, but generally speaking less and less people value the large traditional Cadillac of the past. That is not my opinion, but that of the general buying public otherwise Cadillac would still be building Fleetwoods and Sedan de'Villes.

The first gen CTS began to break that mold, but the traditional Cadillac buyers still gravitated to cars like the DTS. Almost no one who was considering a Lexus, Mercedes or BMW would ever look at the Cadillac. The second gen CTS took it a step further with a bit more refinement and offering "almost" 5 series type of content and performance at a 3 series price.

In other words they offered value for those looking for it. The thing is that people shopping Mercedes, BMW or Lexus don't have "value" at the top of shopping list otherwise they would be driving loaded Buicks, Acuras or other near luxury brands.

When the 2nd gen CTS-V beat out a BMW M5 on the Nurbergring (sp?) and was declared the worlds fastest production sedan, it put the world on notice. It still didn't make Cadillac a premium brand, but showed that Cadillac (GM) finally built a car that could compete with the Germans, but it was not a car that was attainable by the masses.

The ATS was the first car that was a legitimate contender to a BMW. It recently beat out a Lexus IS F-Sport (not to be confused with the IS-F which is in BMW M3 category) in a comparison test. It can without apology or compromise be considered a true 3 series competitor.

The new CTS is being touted now as a true, no compromise competitor to the BMW 5 series. I recently drove a 5 series and I personally feel they have gone soft so it is possible that the CTS has arrived like the ATS did, and Cadillac now feels they no longer have to play the "value" card as their prices are now in BMW category.

History and the sales figures will show whether the general public agrees.

.
 
#68 ·
Your post offers a lot of legitimate comments and observations, though I suggest it's your opinion based on generalities which are very logical observations of the industry. Though, logical doesn't always mean factual. Or supporting statements with logical rhetoric doesn't always mean the statements are factual or have anything to do with the facts, i.e., "Almost no one who was considering a Lexus, Mercedes or BMW would ever look at the Cadillac." It sounds logical, but it's an opinion and really doesn't support or prove any facts.

Here is a cut n past of an article/post of the top luxury cars from the Motor Trend Website. It's based on one person's opinion. At the end of the article, there is a link to the thread. It's a good read and many other posters offer their ranking of premium cars (of course based on their opinion.).

************* So a few rules, in order to be a luxury brand and not ultra luxury, must have more than half of their cars start under $100k. In order to be a luxury car brand and not just a sports car brand, must have at least 1 car with 4 or more doors. Models of cars, even if they have their own insignia, don't count either. So '300' or '///M' or 'Genesis' are not luxury brands.

By modern prestige perception, I'm talking about what the brand cache the brand has today. I don't care if Chrysler or Auburn was the cat's meow in 1948.

1) Jaguar
2) Porsche
3) Mercedes-Benz
4) BMW
5) Audi
6) Lexus
7) Infiniti (tie)
7) Cadillac (tie)
9) Volvo (tie)
9) Acura (tie)
11) Saab (no longer produced)
12) Lincoln
13) Chrysler
14) Buick

Feel free to post up your own rankings!

**********************
You write Cadillac is not viewed as a top level premium brand yet. May I ask, "Viewed by whom or what entity?" Also, what is exactly a top level premium brand? Is this an official term used in the industry? If it is an official term used in the industry is there a certification process manufacturers need to pass to qualify? You state as fact that Cadillac is not a top level premium brand yet. Where did you collect your data to support your statement? I get that a Cadillac ain't a BMW or a Mercedes. Though, where does a car of any brand have to be ranked to be considered top level premium brand? Exactly what is a top level premium brand anyways? Is there a book of criteria somewhere that offers a ranking to qualify as "top level premium brand? Is there a definition or generally accepted criteria that needs to be met to qualify cars as top premium brand" Seriously, who or what entity or recognized organization determines what is a top level premium Brand? Where or what is the cut-off... is there a cut off? Or is it just based on opinion? Ok, I"ll stop here, I think I'm getting redundant.... just trying to make a point. ;)

I'm not offended you suggest Cadillac is not a top level brand (I'm not that vain when it comes to what I drive). I won't even argue that Cadillac is a top level brand for the simple fact I don't know what a top level brand is! None the less, the term "premium car," whether I say it or the industry says it.... is perception based on opinion and it's very, very relative.
 
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