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Cadillac XTS Forum Discussion, Cadillac XTS Press Release in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Reading through the web, there are a lot of people disappointed with the Cadillac XTS concept. I don't know where ...
  1. #46
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Reading through the web, there are a lot of people disappointed with the Cadillac XTS concept. I don't know where the rumor started but people are also mentioning that Cadillac realizes the web-reception was not what they were expecting/hoping for. The final product will likely be a bit narrow compared to what it is now - making it smaller, unfortunately. Let's see where the automotive industry is in 2012 when we finally see the car...
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  2. #47
    70eldo's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    You can't please everyone.
    But noone can say it is not an improvement over the current DTS. So I don't understand why people always have something to nag about a car they are not interested in anyway.

  3. #48
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by 70eldo View Post
    You can't please everyone.
    But noone can say it is not an improvement over the current DTS. So I don't understand why people always have something to nag about a car they are not interested in anyway.
    I think the big point is that the DTS is extremely out-moded in this day and age in terms of it being FWD. Yet we are going to replace it with a smaller FWD car.

  4. #49
    meniisoc is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by concorso View Post
    Hail, King of Vague Assumptions.

    Medium sized car...really?
    GM not capable of building a decent V8? Thats one of the few areas that the rest of the automotive world collectively believes GM is good at!

    What I mean is this:
    Cadillac has decided that they will use a V6 engine in their "biggest" car.
    This is because of emission crap from the government.
    So apparently they can not build a V8 up to the upcoming emission standards, while all their German competitors can.
    Because, come on, a V6 in your flagship model, seriously?
    And to make things worse, they add the hybrid part, because they want
    to fulfill the co2 hype.
    This will make the xts after 8 years completely worthless, because the batteries have the 8 years maximum life span.
    Not to mention all other maintenance costs a hybrid part will add to your car.
    For every hybrid car, the rule is, that the car is a totall-loss when the batterypack dies.

    Lets just hope for the future of Cadillac, they will offer a true successor for the STS soon, that uses a new great V8 without the hybrid part, and a bigger exterior than the xts.

  5. #50
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    The real problem with this emissions bullshit is that no one is looking at the real problem. Cars don't give off anywhere near the emissions as planes or large ships, but instead of attempting better technology in those areas, we are given shitty hybrids and electric cars.

  6. #51
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Nobody seems to remember that the government has mandated the 35 mpg fleet average, whether the people want it or not. Plus, last year when gas was $4.00/gallon, you couldn't give large cars and SUV's away, and hybrids were sold out, even with price premiums. GM was chastised for not having a fleet of fuel efficient cars.

    Whether we like it or not, GM will be unable to sell large cars with V8s in any quantity, or risk government sanctions. This is not Obama Motors doing, but is due to the standards that were passed during the Bush administration. Europe has a much more fuel efficient fleet than we do, because gas costs so much, and diesel costs a lot less. More than 50% of the cars in Europe are diesels, and most of the gas engines are pretty small, too. Six cylinder and diesel 7-Series are the norm, and four cylinder diesel 3-Series are the most popular, too. If gas cost $8.00/gallon, we would be doing the same. Instead of market forces, we have a law. This reality is why GM stopped development of the NorthStar replacement, as the "handwriting" was now in the books.

    Americans still seem to have an aversion to diesel, and there is no price break for diesel fuel here anyway. We seem to have accepted hybrids, though. I personally think the XTS is a brilliant compromise that would yield fleet compatible fuel economy and CO2 emissions with acceptable performance and space for a full size luxury car. BMW, MB, and Porsche all have hybrids planned for the luxury market, as do others, but none of them are plug-ins or will be as fuel efficient as the XTS will likely be. If gas shoots up in price again, GM will be sitting very pretty in the luxury market. Gas guzzlers with aspirations for large sales will disappear anyway, as they just won't be able to be sold anymore.

    Looking at the concept, I do see some resemblance to the Avalon, which is a very roomy sub-luxury car. Looking at the dimensions, I feel that the listed wheelbase must be wrong. The car is listed as being 12 inches longer than the CTS, and the front overhang is not that long, plus the rear overhang is not that long either. The greenhouse does look pretty long, though. My guess would be a wheel base of 118-120 inches. FWD with a transverse engine does offer more interior room and increased efficiency, while the electric motor acting on the rear wheels allows some RWD and AWD characteristics without the weight and inefficiency of a driveshaft and another differential. Plus, I would guess that all-electric drive would be easier to integrate if acting on a separate axle (just a guess).

    My only wish for this design would be to place the engine behind the centerline of the front wheels, like Audi has recently done. This would require a longer hood by about six inches, as well as a longer wheelbase. While less space-efficient, it would give a more favorable weight distribution for better handling, and would look much more elegant as well. It wouldn't actually weigh that much more, either, and might even be more aerodynamic, as well as much more upscale.

    I believe there is still a market for these kinds of cars, that are uniquely American. Unfortunately, these cars have been sorely neglected, the DTS perhaps less so than the Town Car, but it's still pretty ancient. The XTS is not an STS replacement, but the STS sales are so low that replacing it shouldn't be an immediate priority. The XTS could very nicely replace both the DTS and the ancient Town Car, and may be able to expand it's sales beyond those cars if the mileage is good enough and gas goes up again. Well done, Cadillac.

  7. #52
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by marktanner View Post
    ...Looking at the concept, I do see some resemblance to the Avalon, which is a very roomy sub-luxury car. Looking at the dimensions, I feel that the listed wheelbase must be wrong. The car is listed as being 12 inches longer than the CTS, and the front overhang is not that long, plus the rear overhang is not that long either. The greenhouse does look pretty long, though. My guess would be a wheel base of 118-120 inches. FWD with a transverse engine does offer more interior room and increased efficiency, while the electric motor acting on the rear wheels allows some RWD and AWD characteristics without the weight and inefficiency of a driveshaft and another differential. Plus, I would guess that all-electric drive would be easier to integrate if acting on a separate axle (just a guess).

    My only wish for this design would be to place the engine behind the centerline of the front wheels, like Audi has recently done. This would require a longer hood by about six inches, as well as a longer wheelbase. While less space-efficient, it would give a more favorable weight distribution for better handling, and would look much more elegant as well. It wouldn't actually weigh that much more, either, and might even be more aerodynamic, as well as much more upscale.

    I believe there is still a market for these kinds of cars, that are uniquely American. Unfortunately, these cars have been sorely neglected, the DTS perhaps less so than the Town Car, but it's still pretty ancient. The XTS is not an STS replacement, but the STS sales are so low that replacing it shouldn't be an immediate priority. The XTS could very nicely replace both the DTS and the ancient Town Car, and may be able to expand it's sales beyond those cars if the mileage is good enough and gas goes up again. Well done, Cadillac.
    I hope the engine bay is prepared for a new V8 and V8 diesel as well! (wasn't there some rumour about Cadillac developing a V8 diesel? The project was halted?) Then the XTS is prepared to go global, which would be a huge improvement over the current DTS.

  8. #53
    carter's_sts is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    I read not too long ago in a science magazine that all the CO put out by all cars, planes, trains, and boats in the entire world contributes only a fraction to the build up of green house gases compared to the clear cutting of forests around the world.

    Remember trees use CO. The same gas that we exhale and the EPA has deemed hazardous.

    But for the, mandated by the government, improvement in MPGs the car makers only know how to do this with hybrids.

    Also, a new thing is that, they are getting power from using 2 types of engines in the same car. Lexus is already doing this and the XTS has some impressive HP (supposedly).

    Not defending hybrids though, I don't like them. The batteries are a real problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by V-Eight View Post
    The real problem with this emissions bullshit is that no one is looking at the real problem. Cars don't give off anywhere near the emissions as planes or large ships, but instead of attempting better technology in those areas, we are given shitty hybrids and electric cars.

  9. #54
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    We exhale CO? Oh shit. Don't hold your breath then...

    Pretty sure you mean CO2.

  10. #55
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by carter's_sts View Post
    I read not too long ago in a science magazine that all the CO put out by all cars, planes, trains, and boats in the entire world contributes only a fraction to the build up of green house gases compared to the clear cutting of forests around the world.

    Remember trees use CO. The same gas that we exhale and the EPA has deemed hazardous.

    But for the, mandated by the government, improvement in MPGs the car makers only know how to do this with hybrids.

    Also, a new thing is that, they are getting power from using 2 types of engines in the same car. Lexus is already doing this and the XTS has some impressive HP (supposedly).

    Not defending hybrids though, I don't like them. The batteries are a real problem.
    Possibly, but that's just another reason that we should plant more trees instead of making shitty hybrids

  11. #56
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Speaking of hybrids...apparently the EVO XI is going to be one.

  12. #57
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Yeah, that was dumb! What's really bad is that I corrected someone before about that same thing. I did mean CO2. (at myself)


    Quote Originally Posted by UnsafeAtAnySpd View Post
    We exhale CO? Oh shit. Don't hold your breath then...

    Pretty sure you mean CO2.

  13. #58
    fps_dean is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by Aron9000 View Post
    I'm really diggin that interior, especially that wood trim and metal seatbelt buckles with the Cadillac crest on them(reminds me of the buckles on my 1991)
    I LOVE that interior. IMO it puts the S class / 7 series interiors to shame!

    However, I do think the STS is a much nicer looking car on the outside....

  14. #59
    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    Quote Originally Posted by meniisoc View Post
    What I mean is this:
    Cadillac has decided that they will use a V6 engine in their "biggest" car.
    This is because of emission crap from the government.
    So apparently they can not build a V8 up to the upcoming emission standards, while all their German competitors can.
    Because, come on, a V6 in your flagship model, seriously?
    And to make things worse, they add the hybrid part, because they want
    to fulfill the co2 hype.
    This will make the xts after 8 years completely worthless, because the batteries have the 8 years maximum life span.
    Not to mention all other maintenance costs a hybrid part will add to your car.
    For every hybrid car, the rule is, that the car is a totall-loss when the batterypack dies.

    Lets just hope for the future of Cadillac, they will offer a true successor for the STS soon, that uses a new great V8 without the hybrid part, and a bigger exterior than the xts.
    Cadillac has a V8 and a V8 hybrid in its flagship allready, the Escalade. The XTS wont touch the Escalade in sales numbers, and probably not in price, either. The Escalade is still the first image people think of when mentioning Cadillac.

    That said, theres nothing wrong with offering a V6 in Cadillacs biggest car. The driveability of a hybrid V6 will be great, itll offer smooth effortless power. It might not sound as good as the N* or have 8 cylinders, but in most other ways itll be a better powertrain. On top of this, BMW has allready said the 7series will get its 6cyl... Everyone is playing in the same market.

    All of the complaints you have with the car are complaints with the market, not with the XTS. The hybrid powertrain is a response to the market and to government regulations. A V8 would be nice, but what options do they have? An LSx would be shunned. A N* is too underpowered, and will cost alot of money to revamp, and offers less tq then the V6Hybrid, which would hinder driving smoothness. Cadillac was in the process of revamping the N*, before they ran out of money. The only other option is the supercharged N*, which I think would be a nice option on top of the V6Hybrid. But that would also require strong diffs among other things, all of which would push the cost higher and higher.

    I think Cadillac is doing what they need to do. Theyre takiing a cheap platform, and exploiting it. They should make good profit from this car, without spending a tonne of money in the developement. A brands perception doesnt change over night. The S-class market is not ready to accept a Cadillac competitor. Audi and Lexus have struggled for 10-15 years to compete in this market, and even now theyre still considered 'almosts' next to an S-class. Audi is allready proof that having the best interior in the market isnt enough to beat the S-class. This market is all about cache, and I think Cadillac fans naively think that Cadillac is considered in the same breath as Mercedes,BMW and Audi, when the reality is quite different. The last 5 years have changed this feeling alot, but itll take a few more years before the S-class market will look at it differently.

    Look at it this way. Cadillac needs wins. If Cadillac had made a half-assed attempt at a true luxury sedan flagship, then it would have been compared to the LS, the 7series, the S-class, etc... This is an extremely tough segment to break into, and Cadillac would have been judged very critically. Could they have succeeded? Possibly. But the cost to GM would be huge, and the cost of failure would be even greater. With the XTS, it will probably see competition in the M35/45, the Lincoln MKS, and the Lexus ES. This is a segment Cadillac can win dominantly.

    A win in a lower segment looks better then a 5th place in a very visible segment.

  15. #60
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
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    Re: Cadillac XTS Press Release

    BMW is "offering" their 6 cylinder in the 7-Series as an option. That's different. They still have a V8 and V12 available.

    the Lexus LS and Audi A8 are "there" in regards to being considered "top tier" - and while they may not be as good as a Mercedes S-Class, doesn't SOMEBODY have to be #1? There cannot be two "bests". The Mercedes S-Class is the car that the Lexus LS aspires to be. The BMW 750i is the car that the Audi A8 aspires to be. The Lexus and Audi aren't the best - but there right up there in the same class...

    I do believe the XTS will be a car that makes Cadillac money - which is what they need right now. In time, they'll give the rest of us what we're looking for... I just hope too many people don't become comfortable with other brands beforehand...
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