XTS is A RESULT OF....
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Cadillac XTS Forum Discussion, XTS is A RESULT OF.... in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; As you all know, Gm and the other American cars has innovated lots of things in the past. ( From ...
  1. #1
    Newmonarch is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    XTS is A RESULT OF....

    As you all know,

    Gm and the other American cars has innovated lots of things in the past. ( From automatic tranny to nightvision, to Led taillamps, Magneto Fluid suspensions, to one of the first ESC systems in the world ( Same date with Bosch's Esp, ICCS ) , one of the first Esp system that includes "Active Steering Effort" ( 4 Years before ZF Activeglunk - ) etc etc...Lots of things.

    As you know, Gm is selling rebadged Holden's as "Buick Park Avenue" in China, and as I read, they have even got 4 seats with massaging fuction!!!

    Even, the most luxury US made car ( Fully Equipped 2010 Dts ) has got Massaging lumbars on front!

    Of course, Cadillac SLS got MUCH BETTER interior than US version STS, and also has got lots of unique features. And as I now, they are selling lots of Caddy in China. ( SLS is competing with S class in China! ) ( Stretched STS )

    The other thing is, outside USA, LOTS of people ( At least in Turkey ) , is placing Cadillac above MB, Audi and Bmw. ( I asked many of my friends ).

    Probably, American people is thinking about 1980's Crap cars, while other people's are thinking about 1950's magnificent-dream cars which was expensive than Rolls-Royce once upon a time.

    So Gm knows that , Chinese are also thinking like that, they are producing better things on there.

    But when I heard , STS/DTS replacement will be Front Wheel Drive based car, I am really disappointed.

    I am sure that Gm will not do this like Audi A8 ( Which uses Longditional engine ) , and they gonna use Transverse setup ( Which I hate ! ).

    And now considering Gm doesnt import SLS to the US market with lots of toys which Germans has got. ( ACC, Side Blind Zone alert, adaptive seats, Night Vision etc. ) , I seriously think , Gm is scared off from their poor image from 1980's.

    Because, its so easy to create a S Amg competetior.

    Get a Chinese SLS from China ( Or do it in USA ) , get all toys you have ( Even Power Headrests - ( Holden has got this feature in some of their cars , which belongs to Gm ) and put LS7 or LS9 or Supercharged Nortstar engines. ( That engines are capable up to 5.4 liters displacement which would boast their power up to 500 Hp easily, THEY DONT EVEN HAVE TO DEVELOP NEW V8 ENGİNE )

    But I know...

    GM DONT WANT TO CREATE CAR WHİCH WOULD COMPETE WİTH 7/S/A8 directly.

    But it would be great opportunity to proove that Cadillac is NOT IN TROUBLE.

    Now lots of people think "Oh yes, Cadillac is good...Cts-v smoked lots of European cars...But they dont have flagship sedan to compete with German Saloons..

    I know , Mercedes has paid lots of money due to Cafe Lawsuit last year, again I know, Fwd based cars are efficient...And I know Mercedes-Amg deparment has announced "Hp wars are over", again I know Bmw dropped their V10 5.0 engine due to emission regulations...

    BUT I DONT THİNK MB, AUDİ OR BMW WOULD SWİTCH TO TRANSVERSE ENGİNES WİTH FRONT WHEEL DRİVE.

    I know, Fwd is a way to stop understeer. But, why are they doing transverse engine setup?

    Audi found the best solution. They are going with Fwd BUT THEY ARE NOT USİNG TRANSVERSE.

    I think, XTS should use Longditional Engine setup with Fwd and optional Awd like Audi. That would be great!

    Even my aunts old 1999 Mondeo has got Longditional engine setup, and the old generation Passat.

    How can a Cadillac Flagship sedan has got Transverse engine?

    Of course, Holden has got Sedans that uses Zeta architecture, which is great.

    But again, all of my dreams about XTS has gone...

    Not powerfull...Not Coupe version...Not so equipped...

    It seems, Caddy is building a car to retired people which pisses of to their pants when they feel little "understeer" .

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  3. #2
    Peter Gregg is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    And as a result, I am very reluctantly going to reward Ford instead of GM and am seriously looking at the MKS Ecoboost.

    GM is tilting everything in th wrong direction for me. From their advertising, to obviously avoiding saying Merry Christmas in their current Christmas TV commercial, to listing the USA last on the list on their new web site when going there for the first time.

    There is a saying not to bite the hand that feeds you. GM has a track record of late where I am liking the cars more then a few years ago, but I am not liking the company and it's message, and I am not liking the cars in certain slots - like the DTS replacement. I also don't like that the better WOW cars are not being sold in the USA and the better interior choices are for other countries and not for us. That is plain wrong.

    Gee, I hate to buy Ford, but I want to buy American and GM is pissing a lot of good will away and thinks it is not noticed. They probably won't miss my purchase either - lol.

    Peter

  4. #3
    cooncat's Avatar
    cooncat is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Using the Happy Holiday is a good thing. There are other people in this world besides Christians. Okay, go ahead and flame me.

  5. #4
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    I agree with cooncat. I don't really see why "Merry Christmas" matters to so many people. It's two words. There are more holidays around this time of year than just Christmas (or Commercialized Tree Day, as I prefer to call it). You never see huge rage over "Happy Hanukkah" not being said in advertisements, or "Happy Kwanzaa" either. Why do people who celebrate this idea of "Christmas" feel so entitled to getting recognition for it? That's just my two cents, anyway.

    To the OP: I agree with you. I think FWD standard/AWD optional should be the way of a Cadillac flagship. First off, it's technologically advanced, and with their "Art and Science" theme going on there, it would be nice. Secondly, the FWD version would cater to the "normal" US luxury car consumer who may not care about performance, and the AWD can be there for those of us who do. Then make the XTS-V AWD standard, with some more power, and like you said, presto. S-class/7-series competitor right there.

    Sometimes I wish, just for one year, car people could run these companies; not business big-wigs who feel as if they're in the know. But alas, it will never happen.

  6. #5
    Rodya234's Avatar
    Rodya234 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by Newmonarch View Post
    =

    I know, Fwd is a way to stop understeer. But, why are they doing transverse engine setup?

    Audi found the best solution. They are going with Fwd BUT THEY ARE NOT USİNG TRANSVERSE.
    You're mistaking oversteer with understeer. FWD creates understeer, RWD creates oversteer.

    Anways, Cadillac uses a transverse FWD set up for a set of good reasons. Firstly, a longitudinally-mounted configuration, like Audi uses, places the engine far in front of the drive wheels, which disrupts the weight distribution of the car, and degrades turning performance.

    A transverse setup places the powerplant right above the drive wheels, increasing traction and making the car better for situations like snow, as well as moving the weight of the engine towards the center of the car, which provides better handling.

    The transverse setup does create torque steer (because one driveshaft is longer then the other), but if the car has a limited slip differential, this effect is nullified.

    Whats with all the transverse hate anyways? Cadillacs have been set up like that for a long time now, its a time tested design/

  7. #6
    Cadillac Talan's Avatar
    Cadillac Talan is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    just because you mount it longitudinally doesn't mean it has to sit way up front like Audi. They only do that to increase cabin space w/o having to lengthen the vehicle. Look at the Infiniti G's, BMW's, and a host of others. Only Audi sticks it way out front. Transverse is a PITA to work on, I know not many people (besides enthusiasts) care about that. It understeers, you can't launch it (again I know not many people care) without spinning the bejesus out of the tires. I know this stuff doesn't really matter on this car, its not a sports sedan. It just isn't turning into the car that I thought we might see that could put Cadillac back into the large luxury car elite.

    P.S. If nothing else PLEASE no cheap, hard plastics.

    Oh and a limited slip will not stop torque steer.

  8. #7
    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by cooncat View Post
    Using the Happy Holiday is a good thing. There are other people in this world besides Christians. Okay, go ahead and flame me.
    Most reasonable people can agree with this.

  9. #8
    Albertan is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Peter Greg
    The reason the USA is listed close to last on the web site is the fact that you live in the Usa. If you lived in Albania it would be near the top. Or you could move to Canada, we're close to the top. I guess your founding fathers missed the boat there. Weren't thinking internet when choosing the name. They should have called it "Association of Soverign States" wait what does that make it???

  10. #9
    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Gregg View Post
    And as a result, I am very reluctantly going to reward Ford instead of GM and am seriously looking at the MKS Ecoboost.

    GM is tilting everything in th wrong direction for me. From their advertising, to obviously avoiding saying Merry Christmas in their current Christmas TV commercial, to listing the USA last on the list on their new web site when going there for the first time.

    There is a saying not to bite the hand that feeds you. GM has a track record of late where I am liking the cars more then a few years ago, but I am not liking the company and it's message, and I am not liking the cars in certain slots - like the DTS replacement. I also don't like that the better WOW cars are not being sold in the USA and the better interior choices are for other countries and not for us. That is plain wrong.

    Gee, I hate to buy Ford, but I want to buy American and GM is pissing a lot of good will away and thinks it is not noticed. They probably won't miss my purchase either - lol.

    Peter
    I didnt read all of this the first time. Shame on me, I know...

    Just a few minoir points. If you dont like GM becuase they offer better models in Europe then they do in N.America, then youre gonna HATE FORD!
    And besides the CAdilllac SLS sold in CHina with a slightly better interior, I cant think of any Cadillac sold in the US thats better in the rest of the world. The EuroV's get a diff cooler....Im not sure thats enough reason to switch to a different brand. The SLS from China wont pass our side impact laws, and it would take a whole heap of money to make this car pass the test, with arguably small returns. It doesnt make any sense economically.
    IT would seem to me youre letting a few minor peeves push you away from the car you really like...

  11. #10
    Cadillac Tony's Avatar
    Cadillac Tony is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    This might sound crazy, but maybe you should wait to see how the car looks, handles and rides before freaking out about it.

    I know it sounds ridiculous, but it's just a thought.
    thebigjimsho and thebigjimsho like this.
    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
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    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  12. #11
    Newmonarch is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Fwd layout is not wanted by peoples. Especially young peoples. I know, Cadillac is used to ( and supposed to ) meet the standarts of old, but since the debut of CTS, whole Cadillac image has been changed significantly. Cadillac got into very different way and, they prooved that they can do sports cars just like Europeans. ( 2. Gen Cts-V can match up with Bmw M5 or other imports in this class... )

    But now, they have to expand it with a sedan which directly competes with S/7/A8.

    In FWD layout, especially with transverse ones, its hard to install powerfull engines, and launch without well spin. I know Rwd cars cant perform well in snow or rain, but now, advanced electronic systems in charge all the time. Stability control systems has been developing nearly two decades. ( ICCS, 1995, Esp&Dsc 1995 etc...)

    Gm's Zeta platform is very well. They can build up a Super-Cadillac with them. Lower models would have DI V6 engines while V series has got LS9 or LS7...

  13. #12
    UnsafeAtAnySpd's Avatar
    UnsafeAtAnySpd is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    FWD= Wrong wheel drive.

  14. #13
    Vinsanity's Avatar
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by Newmonarch View Post
    Gm's Zeta platform is very well. They can build up a Super-Cadillac with them. Lower models would have DI V6 engines while V series has got LS9 or LS7...
    I'm thinking the exact same thing. The next-gen DTS could totally be designed on the LWB Zeta chassis. What with the architecture being used for the Camaro and widely utilized in global applications (Oz Holdens, Chinese Buicks, Saudi Caprices), it should be reasonably cost-effective for GM. It's just the stupid new CAFE rules that are screwing everything up. The 3.6DI should be suitable as a base engine, but the higher-end options would be tricky. Using the powertrain from the Escalade hybrid, or developing a hybrid with the 3.6DI would be interesting moves.

  15. #14
    Cadillac Tony's Avatar
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    For the sake of argument, let's not forget the new AWD system offered on the SRX. It sends 100% of the power to the rear wheels under acceleration, which eliminates torque steer and launch concerns. Under cornering it sends more power to the outside wheels, driving it through the corner and reducing understeer (similar to, but better than the SH-AWD on Acuras). A proper application of this AWD system to the XTS would eliminate all the performance concerns, while simultaneously improving cabin room by using the transverse engine.

    I'm not saying FWD is the perfect choice or anything, but let's see what they do with it before freaking out and deciding that the car is junk just because of a transverse engine and FWD.
    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
    Leesburg, FL
    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  16. #15
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    To be perfectly honest the FWD Seville STS's weren't terrible handling cars, especially when they redesigned the suspension in '98 with CVRSS and again in late '02 with the MagneRide suspension system. Not really a comparison to a BMW or Mercedes, but still not a bad car at all. On top of that, sales of Seville were always ahead of the current STS because consumers never warmed up to STS design and styling. Cadillac is moving the CTS into the STS's old territory and the XTS is a replacement for DTS. To be honest anything more advanced than the current DTS will be much better (not saying the DTS is a bad car, just old) even if it is FWD. It's shown that Cadillac's main base of buyers could care less if the car is FWD or RWD. If you want a RWD sport sedan, buy a CTS or the upcoming ATS.

    This LWB Zeta isn't going to happen. It's just not in the cards right now for Cadillac. Neither is a Northstar replacement. Maybe in 5 years or so, but right now Cadillac just doesn't have the resources available. I sure wish it wasn't that way, but it is what it is.

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