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Cadillac XTS Forum Discussion, XTS is A RESULT OF.... in Current Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by ryannel2003 Not really a comparison to a BMW or Mercedes, but still not a bad car at ...
  1. #16
    Vinsanity's Avatar
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
    Not really a comparison to a BMW or Mercedes, but still not a bad car at all.
    And that's been the problem with Cadillac before the CTS. They weren't being taken seriously because they weren't competitive with BMW and Mercedes. Maybe the traditional buyers might not care, but in the long run, this causes the brand to become irrelevant and fade into obscurity. Look at what's happening with Lincoln. Their new products look sharp, but they're just Fords in formal attire. Cadillac has to be able to compete with Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Audi if their existence is to be worthwhile. Satisfying the old customer base is a job for Buick.

    IMO, the STS struggled to make headway because of stiff competition in that segment. It also didn't help that it came out the same time as the BMW E60 5-series.

  2. #17
    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    What you say makes sense, except that it breaks some major rules. You never turn your back on your existing customer base. The XTS as planned so far makes perfect sense. Cadillac isnt ready to compete with the big 4 luxury brands in the large luxury sedan segment. Keep the XTS lower price with high value. HO V8 rwd powertrains are nice, but Cadillac would be more successful with a hybrid. Instead of competing with BMW and Mercedes, Cadillac should redefine the luxury sedan segment, a segment that says the more money you spend, the more engine and harsher riding suspension you get.

    The XTS (god, i hate that name) needs to be a homerun in a few key areas. It needs to have a tonne of rear space, maybe even a L version. It needs to be outfitted with all electronics neccessary to run your business out of, internet access, tv's, etc...It needs a multitude of leather and other high quality fabrics available. It needs an optional Captians seating in the rear. It needs 4 seat massaging/heating/cooling/climate control/power seats. It needs to make the owner feel special, it needs to be luxurious. It needs to scream "The Cadillac of Cadillacs". Power and handling prestige, while nice, is uneccessary. It needs to be good in these departments, but not great. The car needs to succeed everywhere else. As Cadillac gets more money, then they can think about a full scale assault on the big brands.

    It seems as tho everyone wants the brand to grow leaps and bounds overnight. Look at Audi and Lexus. Both brands took about 20 years to full compete in the luxury ranks. The CTS, in its 2nd generation, is still not fully competive in the midsize luxury segment.

    Simply put. Peoples minds take along time to change. The only way to hurry the lengthy change is to toss money at the problem, something Cadillac doesnt have alot of.


    By the way, if you dont think a transversley mounted V8 can handle well in awd form, then have a ride in a Saab Turbo X with 300 hp 2.8Lturbo. Transversely mounted V6Turbo, with Haldex awd. Very VERY good handling car, more then enough for the XTS.

  3. #18
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by concorso View Post
    The XTS (god, i hate that name) needs to be a homerun in a few key areas. It needs to have a tonne of rear space, maybe even a L version. It needs to be outfitted with all electronics neccessary to run your business out of, internet access, tv's, etc...It needs a multitude of leather and other high quality fabrics available. It needs an optional Captians seating in the rear. It needs 4 seat massaging/heating/cooling/climate control/power seats. It needs to make the owner feel special, it needs to be luxurious. It needs to scream "The Cadillac of Cadillacs".
    What you've described so far sounds a lot like the Lexus LS. Which I do agree the DTS's successor should be aiming for. What I doubt is whether the Epsilon architecture, with its humble family sedan roots, is up to snuff at handling that order. The LWB Zeta is much more suitable to use as luxury car underpinnings, because it's already used as the engineering platform for luxury cars in the Middle and Far East. Keep the 3.6DI motor as the base version for fleets and value shoppers, and throw in a hybrid version for added power AND efficiency for the range-topper.

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    JBsZ06 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Can't wait to see this new XTS ...

    I hear those that have are loving it..

    When will its photos be released?

    Detroit autoshow in January? or before on the net?

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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingroo View Post
    I agree with cooncat. I don't really see why "Merry Christmas" matters to so many people. It's two words. There are more holidays around this time of year than just Christmas (or Commercialized Tree Day, as I prefer to call it). You never see huge rage over "Happy Hanukkah" not being said in advertisements, or "Happy Kwanzaa" either. Why do people who celebrate this idea of "Christmas" feel so entitled to getting recognition for it? That's just my two cents, anyway.

    I believe people should be able to call it whatever they want. The real problem isn't from the people who say "Merry Christmas". It's from the other side who doesn't want them saying "Merry Christmas". Those are the kinds of people who steal our most sacred freedoms in this country. Those are the same people who will drive it into the ground.

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    osu411yamaha is offline Banned
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by UnsafeAtAnySpd View Post
    FWD= Wrong wheel drive.
    Well don't you think that depends on where you are located. FWD is extremely beneficial to those of us with harsh winters.

  7. #22
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by osu411yamaha View Post
    I believe people should be able to call it whatever they want. The real problem isn't from the people who say "Merry Christmas". It's from the other side who doesn't want them saying "Merry Christmas". Those are the kinds of people who steal our most sacred freedoms in this country. Those are the same people who will drive it into the ground.
    Like the freedom to walk into any Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW dealer in America and use your own hard-earned money to buy a new car from them?

  8. #23
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by osu411yamaha View Post
    Well don't you think that depends on where you are located. FWD is extremely beneficial to those of us with harsh winters.
    Nope. I currently live in WY and did live in MT before that. I still think FWD sucks.

  9. #24
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    I personally prefer RWD but in an everyday driver or a car targeted towards those that are fearful of the winter? I think FWD and AWD has a place in the marketplace. For cars with under 320hp fwd is a packaging wonder.

    over cook a fwd sedan in a corner and it just plows...which is very safe as all you have to do...is brake and wait for the car to tuck in and regain a proper path.

    AWD for the XTS should be great.

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    justgreat is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    of all the caddys' that gm has come out with in the last 10 years, the current generation sts is, imo, the best driver's car gm has produced.

    i bought an 06 sts v6 new and could not believe that this was a caddy. it handles so well in the turns and is so balanced, very neutral...i would never have thought that gm could produce a cadillac that handled so well.

    it's a shame that gm won't continue with the rwd platform but from a business standpoint it makes sense; boring, but sensible.

    i'm not the first to state the following but this solution would better fill the void left by killing the sts: utilize a fwd layout with the engine facing north/south instead of transverse. if you have ever driven a fwd audi or the chrysler 300m (both longitudinal fwd platforms) you will appreciate the immense advantages to this layout over transverse. no torque steer, balanced steering (for a fwd car) and mostly neutral handling in most cases.

    this is wishful thinking unfortunately....all we can hope for is the engineers can dial in some excitement in the awd version...otherwise , i'll be going down market to a cts or maybe the ats if i can fit into one.

    i will miss the rwd sts...a fantastic car both for handling and ride.


    jackg
    06 sts6

  11. #26
    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinsanity View Post
    What you've described so far sounds a lot like the Lexus LS. Which I do agree the DTS's successor should be aiming for. What I doubt is whether the Epsilon architecture, with its humble family sedan roots, is up to snuff at handling that order. The LWB Zeta is much more suitable to use as luxury car underpinnings, because it's already used as the engineering platform for luxury cars in the Middle and Far East. Keep the 3.6DI motor as the base version for fleets and value shoppers, and throw in a hybrid version for added power AND efficiency for the range-topper.
    The problem is knowledge. If people didnt know that the XTS would share a platform with the Buick, they wouldnt care. I think the platform is the least of the worries. Cadillac still has major problems with dealership experience, mid-life upgrades, and brand identity. Cadillacs reputation is one of affordable luxury. While many people may like this, its a poor treatment to the brand and as long Cadillac calls the brand cheap, it will always be regarded as cheap. Cadillac has tried to remove this image, by including more standard features, raising the base prices, etc. And they have with the CTS, and to an extent with the SRX. But the tech and luxury items arent there yet to push the car up into another level. The CTS is their best selling car, or it was until this year. They should have introduced new options, a slightly restyled exterior maybe...anything to keep interest peaking.

    The XTS will need to be a no holds barred approach to luxury driving, to compete. You are allready gaurenteed a less then exquisite dealership experience and a rental car that will probably be a malibu automatic that stalls and smells like farts. These are not issues that this class of buyer will tolerate, at least not if theyre coming from other luxury brands.

    The XTS needs everything that Cadillac has to offer in terms of ...everything relative. While the platform may not be the best choice, we all know Cadillac is short on funds. This really should allow them to continue to make sales in the large luxo car category, without having to spend a fortune on R&D of a new platform. For better or worse, I think the XTS is a stop-gap until they can afford to build a true flagship. I find it sad that Hyundai can afford to build the Genesis with a better and bigger engine in rwd format, with all the gadgets you could want, yet Cadillac cant afford that...

  12. #27
    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by osu411yamaha View Post
    Well don't you think that depends on where you are located. FWD is extremely beneficial to those of us with harsh winters.
    I drive a rwd CTS yearround, and I see -temps and snow 6-7 months of the year. The new electronic systems make fwd and rwd ability almost equal in snow and ice. And even then, fwd has some strong points, and rwd has strong points as well. Neither rwd or fwd can come even close to an awd system with snow tires, so if ya need traction year round, awd is all that matters.

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    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Quote Originally Posted by justgreat View Post
    of all the caddys' that gm has come out with in the last 10 years, the current generation sts is, imo, the best driver's car gm has produced.
    no. 2nd gen CTS, without a doubt. The absolute best version of that being the V2. The STS strikes a nice balance between ride and handling, but best drivers' car it is not.

  14. #29
    jrosevear is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    Cadillac isn't going to go straight at the S-class until they can make the huge investment needed to make sure they WIN that comparison. That car has to be over-the-top awesome enough to be called The Standard Of The World(TM) with a straight face, and when it happens it will be EXPENSIVE. Meanwhile, they need an old-school Cadillac barge (a term I use with the greatest of affection) to meet the expectations of DTS buyers, and this is it.

    Long term, I think Cadillac would like to have four sedans to cover the various markets they're aiming at: 3-series-sized, 5-series-sized, 7-series/S-class-sized world-conquering halo, and a barge. Now, whether they can justify having four separate sedan lines is another question, but meanwhile... XTS is the barge.

  15. #30
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    Re: XTS is A RESULT OF....

    The XTS is not Cadillac's 'Flagship' model (it doesn't have a flagship model at this time). Money is still tight; when Cadillac has a 'Flagship', we will have to wait until it heals (from the recent economic catastropyhy). I'm patiently waiting though; tick, tick, tick.....................

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