Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?
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Cadillac XLR-V Series Forum Discussion, Did cadillac miss the mark with the V? in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Guys, First off my father owns a new xlr-v in infared and it is a great car, but I think ...
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    magmarot430 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    Guys,
    First off my father owns a new xlr-v in infared and it is a great car, but I think that cadillac missed the mark. The car should have more power and torque. Yes I know the car is lighter then an SL55, but I feel they should have found a way to keep the 469 that the sts-v has. Also, the cars brakes aren't that good. I can't figure out why as the Z51 brakes on the vette are awesome. The pedal feel on the V is the worst. Also, cadillac should have a panoramic roof. While the interior is nicer on the V it is still so far from the europeans it is not even funny. Don't even get me started on the tires and wheels. There is no reason why the backs are only 255s!! They should be at least 275 maybe wider. I am a little let down by how the car has turned out. Anyone else share my views?
    Erik

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    XLR-V is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    Quote Originally Posted by magmarot430
    Anyone else share my views?
    Erik
    No, I think the car is awesome.

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    Bigplay is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    missed the mark, what? It runs a 12.6 in the 1/4, 440hp is fine. Who cares about a panoramic roof? For a 1st year car it's great man.

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    magmarot430 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigplay
    missed the mark, what? It runs a 12.6 in the 1/4, 440hp is fine. Who cares about a panoramic roof? For a 1st year car it's great man.
    I think the car is good, but not great. Cadillac should have done a better job, and yes I have seen the posted time 1/4 slips so far for 12.6. But in 03 the 55 was doing 12.5 out the box all day long. All I am trying to say is I would trade a less efficient engine for more power. First year car the car XLR has been out since late in 03. I hardly consider 120+ extra HP worth $25k. For $15k over the price of the corvette convert you can get a z06 with 105hp more and much more torque. For $25k more then an sl500 you get almost 200hp more and gobs more torgue as well. I really do find it hard to believe I am the only one complaining about rear tire width and the brake pedal feel. I take it though I am not alone as these cars ARE NOT SELLING.

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    XLR-V is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    Quote Originally Posted by magmarot430
    I really do find it hard to believe I am the only one complaining about rear tire width and the brake pedal feel.
    Brake pedal feel??? Same J55 braking system as the Z51 Vette with larger cross-drilled rotors. Been given pretty good reviews, and seems like a lame reason not to like a car.

    I traded a Viper SRT-10 with 345 rears. Should I have kept the car because of that? I had my fun with that car at the track and elsewhere. Different cars for different purposes.

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    magmarot430 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    Quote Originally Posted by XLR-V
    Brake pedal feel??? Same J55 braking system as the Z51 Vette with larger cross-drilled rotors. Been given pretty good reviews, and seems like a lame reason not to like a car.

    I traded a Viper SRT-10 with 345 rears. Should I have kept the car because of that? I had my fun with that car at the track and elsewhere. Different cars for different purposes.
    I am also on F-chat as I think you are as well (teenferrarifan) but I am just saying i noticed the pedal feel is not that great it is to mushy at least on my dad's car with around 200 miles on it so far maybe that will change. The tire reference was only to make the point that NO OTHER car putting down this kind of power has that skinny of rear tire. The cars handling is hurt as a result. The stock xlr sitting on 225 all around is an even bigger joke. This is straight from the car and driver road test "Smaller tires affect the car in other ways, of course. On the skidpad, we could only wring 0.87 g out of the XLR-V, which was far below GM’s claim of 0.94. Also, the braking distance was a longish 176 feet, despite the V-series brake upgrade — basically a set of Z51-spec rotors and calipers also lifted from the Corvette parts bin." So I am not alone. Motortrend had the same results . I am not saying it is a bad car just shouldn't it be better? Here is the rest of the article http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...lac-xlr-v.html

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    mallettv is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    The brakes on the XLR V seem to be fine to me. And your wrong about them being sold, they only make a limited amount per year, plus everyone we get in stock at our dealership people buy, XLRS sit, people buy that XLR V on principle of what it is, and how much it is. Second of all im on F Chat as well Ive read your posts before funny your on here to anyway take into consideration MB has been making the SL for so many years the XLR is still a baby. The car is bad ass plain and simple. Look underneath the front bumper and there are air dams that lead to the brakes, the chassis is different 50 percent better airflow. Look into it deeper. Its not just a bigger engine and better brakes, theres a lot more then you think. Everyone has a SL 55, not that many people will have XLR V and thats something cool. Peace.

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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    I personally DO think Cadillac could have done better w/ the XLR-V.

    The interior isn't bad, but, as stated before, could be far better. The wheels/tires should also be wider - the Corvette, with "just" 400 HP, a good 40 short of the XLR-V and over $50K LESS, has 285 back there.

    I can't contest to the brake feel, etc as I haven't yet drivin an XLR-V.

    However, I think it's in the same article, they say they love the engine, great power throughout the RPM range and that was one of their highs. While it could have been better, it seemed C/D loved it as-is. Though, for a car listed at $100,000, I'd say an extra 20-40+ HP WOULD be a good thing.

    Also, the exterior I think needs more changes. Yes, it looks nice, but there's barely any exterior changes - even less change that the STS-V, which is less than the CTS-V. To me, the CTS and STS-V series changes on the exterior are just right. Noticable without being over or under done, and definately tastefully done.

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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    -Feel is subjective
    -Engineers cannot perform magic and make room for a deeper oil pan and IIRC different air induction where there isn't room
    -Don't cross shop the Vette and the XLR

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    213XLRV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    XLR-v is not Corvette, and vice-versa. I think Cadillac got this car just right as a first stab at putting a differentiated proposition into this peculiar class of car, "luxury performance retractable hardtop roadster GT." If you think their mission was to build a Mercedes SL clone, then it's not spot-on. If you were running Cadillac and your objective was to enter a rarefied market segment with an alternative, the XLR-v as-is makes total sense.

    On the exterior -- It has its details pumped up just enough to be different from the base car, but not too in-your-face. This is a gentleman's car, not a take-no-prisoners screamer. You can get a nice Ford GT for that. The angular power dome in the hood, the big real-stainless mesh grill, the 19" wheels are unmistakable if understaded cues, and I'm happy with the quieter approach.

    On the interior -- The carpet should be better, on par with Jaguar, the baby Aston or the Maserati. Otherwise, it's a straightforward American presentation that has better technology integration and presentation than anything European. It's handsome too. The plastics are all high quality, you have 360 degrees of french-stitched leather at shoulder level, beautiful irridescent-grained wood, and the touch points are well considered. Some people complain about the smooth plastic buttons but I wonder what they want them to be made from. Metal controls can get sizzling hot in the California sun when the top is down or up. The nav system has a nice big screen and with superbly accessible features. Personally, I would have preferred all leather seating instead of the suede cloth inserts, but those suede inserts work really well at retaining your position in hard cornering without constraining expanding customers with deep bolstering, so it's a win for many of the car's customers. For me there is only one exceptional interior in the entire range of $100K GTs and that's in the Maserati Grand Sport. Everyone else is a piker when it comes to interiors, including the Germans. The $120K baby Aston is the closest to matching it. By comparison to the Italians, the German and Cadillac interiors are just a different take on plastic, wood and leather, with the Germans tending to be overwrought and obscuring of utility. So the XLR-v interior is fine and no reason to not buy the car. I am also absolutely sure that with this as opening salvo, the next interior will be better still.

    On brakes -- I've had a life of sports and sporting cars and pedal feel to me is excellent. However, the borrowed Vette Z51 brakes aren't going to perform exactly like they do in the Corvette! Corvette is a 3100 lb. car. XLR-v is a 3800 lb. transporter. That additional 700 lbs. of retracting hardtop, sound insulation, and $100K car doo-dads is gonna be felt. It's easy enough to bolt bigger brakes on.

    On power -- You don't buy this class of car for ultimate power, and if you did, much of it would never be used. Do you think you will feel a meaningful difference in performance if engineers had been able to retain that 26hp lost from the STS-v installation of the Northstar SC? HP peak is at 6400 rpm. In North America, that 5.86% of additional power is mostly a theoretical advantage. Now, more power is always better than less, but it's more torque that we'd really feel. The SL55 has more power and torque, but from a thirstier, heavier engine with over a litre more displacement. Trouble is, it's carrying A SURPLUS QUARTER TON of useless bulk. It will not be hard for a tuner to find more power from the Northstar SC, but frankly if you're interested in more speed and something quicker than a 4.5 second car, you'd buy something lighter and fully optimized for performance. Oh wait, GM already makes your car. It's a Corvette Z06. But you no longer have a luxury performance retractable hardtop roadster GT. I am certain you'd prefer to make a 6 hour drive, or a day of urban motoring, in the XLR-v over the stellar Z06. If it's bragging rights you're buying, well, just pony up for a Ford GT.

    Tires -- XLR-v shares Corvette's structure and chassis. This essential Corvette DNA makes the car the lightest car in its class, and the most sporting. But it is expressly NOT a Corvette. It can't be with 700 pounds of additional non-performance content needed to make it what it is. Yeah, wider tires could be spec'd, but that would send NVH up to levels unacceptable to the customer for a luxury performance retractable hardtop roadster GT. It would also make the car more susceptible to hydroplaning in rain and snap oversteer at the limit. I think they got the tire size right for its market. You can change the shoes if you must. But frankly, on several 3500 - 3800 lb. cars, I found 255 width tires to offer the perfect blend of grip and gradual slip in a big motor fun machine.

    The extra $25K over XLR -- Geeze Louise....it's not just a $3500 bolt-on supercharger installed by the factory. We're way beyond the Mustang aftermarket world here, boys. First, the 4.4L N*SC is stuffed with 50% or more upgraded content + higher capacity ancillary systems and hand-wrenched together by a single engine builder. That alone is worth a fair piece of the $25K differential over XLR. Then you get the new 6L80 transmission, which is a sensational improvement over the XLR's 5 speed. Factor in upgraded brakes, 19" wheels with Eufori run-flats, interior upgrades and you can easily account for the price differntial. Drive an XLR-v and you can barely sense the XLR buried inside. The experience of driving the two cars is not a subtle difference. It's dramatic, feeling entirely in a different league from the already excellent XLR. However XLR is designed for a broader range of buyers at a lower price point.

    Compared to an XLR-v, a Merc SL55 or SL600 feels like a pig. They look old and in the way too, next to the ultramod Cadillac, with Camaro-like overhangs and a fat-assed squat. Mercedes has engineered some weight mitigation for handling, but the extra 500 pounds of useless bloat infects your whole experience driving the car. You feel its purposeless mass in every turn. The SLs are much less fun. In coupes, the Aston is nice but less incisive and down on power. The Maser GS is its own thing, beautiful and has that distinctive Ferrari-derived mill, but you have to live with the graceless Cambiocorsa transmission and the peculiar driving position. Otherwise it is excellent, fun and has an incomparable interior. Nice paint, too. But alas, the top doesn't come down.

    Is there a 600+ hp "Super V" XLR in our future? Not sure. It wouldn't be difficult for GM to pull such a thing together, but really, what for? Ego sales? OK, maybe. But making XLR-v an under 4 second car is only going to overwhelm the reflexes of the aging clients who can afford such a car and at that point you're building a sports car, not a GT. How many customers do you think there are for pure sports cars under the Cadillac marque, especially when the Z06 exists?

    Cadillac fell short of overwhelming the competition in the prevailing comparators, but to be fair, they weren't building a clone of the perceived category leader, the SL. Instead they put up a distinctive alternative and I think it is meaningfully better, at more than $30K less when SL content is comparable to XLR-v. It's an excellent first shot. It takes years of persistence to change perceptions and get people to pay attention. We XLR-v owners in 2006 are the progressives, the early adopters, the tip of the sword. We're driving the cars that make people notice Cadillac is rebuilding its brand.

    Phil

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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    excellent phil...couldn't agree more

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    thoredan is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    Wow makes me like my car even more!

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    mallettv is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    213XLRV - Ownage, could not agree more.

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    magmarot430 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    GUYS EVERYONE IS MISSING WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY!! The car is good, but to say it is perfect like 213xlr said is flat out wrong. GM has the parts in their "parts inventory" to have made the xlr-v better. They could and should have used the best parts in their R&D department to fit to the first $100k cadillac, but they didn't. If they were going to borrow parts from the corvette why didn't they take the best brakes from the Z06 instead of the Z51 package? If they were going to put a upgraded interior in why didn't they change the seats to be more supportive instead of just a seude insert? Whether that dash is leather or not I don't know as it is far from subtle but maybe it should have a better feel to it? The fit and finish of the body panels could be better I know I am not alone in seeing the waves on every panel from the infused plastic or whatever, but come on sometimes it looks like the panel has more waves then an ocean! Now let's talk about the engine! The car should have more power and torgue end of story. Maybe they should have installed a bi turbo set up, but that would have cost GM more money then DECREASING the size of the engine and bolting on a supercharger. The only reason they had to "upgrade" the components was because of the increased stress they are under as a result of the smaller size. The tires do not I repeat do not offer the "perfect blend of grip and gradual slip" that statement has nothing to do with the width of the tires but the treadpattern the tire uses. A wider tire would provide MORE grip and the same amount of gradual slip. For the record my cousin owns a new Z06 and I would make a 12 hour drive in that car it just cruises on the highway and the seats are great. Again the car is good, but cadillac and GM should and could have made it better! If you disagree that is fine, but wait until cadillac now unveils a super V or makes a major upgrade to the V before it is redesigned. It WILL happen, and I bet it will address some of my areas of concern.

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    mallettv is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Did cadillac miss the mark with the V?

    magmarto430 you just seem to into european. The leather in the XLR V is all for a test, buddy. I see your points of dissapoinment, I do not undestand why the STS V has all leather doors and the XLR V doesnt being that the XLR V is more expensive, I made my point clear to execs at Cadillac about that, you have to realize that everything is done for a reason. The leather was done by Draxly Meyor the same company who does Mercedes, and the Maybach. The z06 is a different car then the XLR V the XLR V is a cruiser for your upscale class of people who want to put the roof down, listen to there music and want a nice smooth quiet ride, the Z06 is a race car basically its different. Maybe Cadillac tried the brakes from the Z06 maybe the brake feel was to strong, or overwhelming, maybe the caliper was to large to fit with the wheel they wanted to use. There are so many things you have to factor in when building a car. The best brakes are not always the most best for the application your applying it to. In the CL65 which is amazing, the bolsters are so contracted to your body its not comfortable for your arms I feel. The XLR V seats are not that bad as your making them out to be, do you think the people buying this car care about how the seats feel going into a corner? NO. Have you driven this car hard, have you ever driven it? can you drive? I have I think its incredible for what the car was meant to do, go fast go smooth and look hot. Cadillac missing a mark, have you looked at the comparo of the STSV, CLS55, M5, the STSV came over the CLS55, this prooving that Cadillac is achieving serious goals. The supercharger as just for being bolted on is just pure bull, there was a lot of engineering that went into that engine and supercharged set up. The XLR was a downgraded EVOQ and the XLR V is even more simillar to the EVOQ concept now being that it was supercharged. Im not knocking you, im not disting you, just saying one day maybe you will understand why what is done, is done for a reason. Take it from someone whos dad owns a Cadillac Dealership. Peace

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