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Cadillac XLR Forum Discussion, Flash To Pass....NOT! in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Originally Posted by STS 310 Hey HarryCTS , is this German for duche bag? If you people are going to ...
  1. #31
    Pete Benson's Avatar
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by STS 310
    Hey HarryCTS , is this German for duche bag?
    If you people are going to use the word, at least spell it right, for chrissakes: d-o-u-c-h-e.

  2. #32
    AznPrydeRegalRyde is offline BAD EMAIL ADDRESS
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by mswaim
    I would give your position some credit if you could produce a solid fact. Can you provide a link to a location where I can verify your story? If you cannot provide that, then can you at least tell me in which jurisdiction this occurred? With over 30 years of law enforcement experience in the state of California I find your story hard to believe, since I know there have only been a small number of cases where data from the EDR was used.
    Well, since you didn't even respond to my point (mother in hospital dying, i flash lights asking you to move over, etc...) I won't tell you where I got the information. But I will tell you that it was covered in 1 British and 1 American auto mag that I've read. If you are nice, I'll tell ya more.

    Quote Originally Posted by mswaim
    California law enforcement decided long ago that the data would only be utilized in cases of vehicular homicide, or where the car was used as a weapon and a death resulted -(see CVC section 9951). The data is admissible in some civil cases at this point, however the cause of an accident is identified and documentd by the investigating law enforcement agency, hense, no death, no EDR data. Based on the facts you presented, no matter what the data said, the trailing vehicle is at fault; driving below the speed limit is a violation in some cases, however it cannot be a primary collision factor, it would only be a contributing factor.
    You are correct, tho I wouldn't consider 2003 long ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by mswaim
    Drivers who fail to allow for a safe stopping distance are always at fault, unless you can show intent. The EDR data cannot and will not ever prove that. Afterall, can the EDR data see an object in the roadway that forced the driver to brake hard? In fact, in both a criminal or civil case, the actions of the trailing driver would constitute elements of "road rage" and as such would overshadow any other factors.
    Here you are wrong. EDR will be able to prove that, in the not so distant future, if it is accepted tech. We allready know that EDR's record everything in a cycle that lasts about 30 seconds, right? There's a company in Japan right now, working on combining video feeds with in-car hardrives. This really isn't that technologically advanced. And how big a step is it from combining that with an EDR? They even talked about this on Autoline Detroit a while back. There are also a few circumstances where road rage doesn't rule all. Dui, driving with no license, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by mswaim
    As for unloading your .45 into my trunk, well you most likely know what i think of that idea. Anytime you or anybody else feels they have the right to use lethal force to achieve their goal, you lose total credibility, even if you are trying to be sarcastic.
    And yes, I do know how you feel about the .45. Did I say I have the right? Not in the least. I was making a joke, with you, at someone else (who originally said it). You may take things a little too seriously.


    Back to the original point. Are you honestly telling me, that If someone comes up behind you at a brisk pace (not ridiculously fast speeds, but still fast, and flashes their lights, you wouldn't move over, regardless of their reasons? Don't you think you are being a little stubborn. Assuming I do have a .45 (I know you don't like this reference, but anyhow), you could get yourself shot in a fit of road rage. Or someone could bump into you from behind, spinning you into oncoming traffic, killing you. I mean, you're taking a risk, and you could be stopping someone from getting to an emergency.

    My point is this. You don't know the reasons for the trailing drivers speeding, its more dangerous for you to stay then it is to move over (unless its heavy traffic obviously), and you could potentially be helping someone get somewhere fast when they need to. And if the driver is doing it for the wrong reasons, then let fate takes its course. Theres as much of a chance thats there will be a cop catching him at some point as there is the chance that the trailing driver will get a case of road rage. In fact, me personnally, I'd move over and call the cops with his plate digits.

    Just to be clear, I don't advocate speeding on public roads. I don't advocate using a firearm in traffic. Same with bumping someone off the road, or any other outlandish example I used.

  3. #33
    AznPrydeRegalRyde is offline BAD EMAIL ADDRESS
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by STS 310
    Hey HarryCTS , is this German for duche bag?
    No, actually, it's a slang spelling someone labelled on me, because I touted my CTS as the first great American vehicle in 15 years. And he politley pointed out that the CTS is more German then american. Whether thats true or not, I don't really care. I just liked the spelling.

  4. #34
    harryctsv is offline Banned
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by STS 310
    Hey HarryCTS , is this German for duche bag?
    Hi STS 310, it`s nice to read all about "Flash to pass" but here in germany we got it for safety and for some "concrete heads" who are thinking doing 120 kph (75mph) is good for anybody. So these people block the left lane if no other traffic is on the road. As you might read in some of my posts I`ve had my Vette up to 304 kph (189 mph) and my XLR up to 278 kph (173 mph) on the autobahn and if somebody who is faster than me, let him pass me if there is enough space to move over, thats OK with me. Till today nobody was able to pass me while I´m around in my Vette or XLR. GM DID A GREAT JOB!!!!!

    Thanks

    Harry

  5. #35
    mswaim is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by AznPrydeRegalRyde
    Well, since you didn't even respond to my point (mother in hospital dying, i flash lights asking you to move over, etc...) I won't tell you where I got the information. But I will tell you that it was covered in 1 British and 1 American auto mag that I've read. If you are nice, I'll tell ya more.

    You are correct, tho I wouldn't consider 2003 long ago.

    Here you are wrong. EDR will be able to prove that, in the not so distant future, if it is accepted tech. We allready know that EDR's record everything in a cycle that lasts about 30 seconds, right? There's a company in Japan right now, working on combining video feeds with in-car hardrives. This really isn't that technologically advanced. And how big a step is it from combining that with an EDR? They even talked about this on Autoline Detroit a while back. There are also a few circumstances where road rage doesn't rule all. Dui, driving with no license, etc.
    And yes, I do know how you feel about the .45. Did I say I have the right? Not in the least. I was making a joke, with you, at someone else (who originally said it). You may take things a little too seriously.


    Back to the original point. Are you honestly telling me, that If someone comes up behind you at a brisk pace (not ridiculously fast speeds, but still fast, and flashes their lights, you wouldn't move over, regardless of their reasons? Don't you think you are being a little stubborn. Assuming I do have a .45 (I know you don't like this reference, but anyhow), you could get yourself shot in a fit of road rage. Or someone could bump into you from behind, spinning you into oncoming traffic, killing you. I mean, you're taking a risk, and you could be stopping someone from getting to an emergency.

    My point is this. You don't know the reasons for the trailing drivers speeding, its more dangerous for you to stay then it is to move over (unless its heavy traffic obviously), and you could potentially be helping someone get somewhere fast when they need to. And if the driver is doing it for the wrong reasons, then let fate takes its course. Theres as much of a chance thats there will be a cop catching him at some point as there is the chance that the trailing driver will get a case of road rage. In fact, me personnally, I'd move over and call the cops with his plate digits.

    Just to be clear, I don't advocate speeding on public roads. I don't advocate using a firearm in traffic. Same with bumping someone off the road, or any other outlandish example I used.
    I did respond to your "dying mother" position, you just missed it. You tied your dying mother to shooting at me for not getting out of your way. I told you that resorting to lethal force as a solution was a ridiculous statement.

    I am not wrong on the EDR data, the technology your talking about is not currently available and has not been approved by the courts so trying to argue the merits of something that is not available or admissible is a moot point.

    You are also wrong about road rage, the fact you have no license has no bearing on the incident. If you drive up behind someone and bump their car in a fit of rage, you will be charged with a felony, the unlicensed driver charge is a misdemeanor.

    As to your final point, I might not know why the trailing driver is flashing his lights, I might be considered stubborn, however none of that provides the legal catalyst for anything other than the trailing driver waiting for an opportunity to pass safely and legally.

    In none of my posts have a stated that I would never move over, I've only played the role of Devil's Adocate, the ridiculous responses are what has fueled this debate.

    The CA vehicle code contains numerous sections that prohibit impeding the flow of traffic. However, once the flow of traffic reaches the posted speed limit, a vehicle that appears to be impeding traffic is not actually violating the law.

    Want an example? Ever seen traffic moving along in front of you at a speed that is slower than you want to go? Once you move up a bit you realize one of the front cars setting the pace is a CHP cruiser moving along at the posted speed limit. He should ticket himself for impeding traffic since the moment he pulls over or off the freeway traffic will jump up 10-15 mph, right?

    Next time you see that situation, pull up behind the officer and "flash to pass". I'm sure he will pull right over so you can pass him..............think that's silly? Not any sillier than telling people that you will shoot at them, bump them or otherwise threaten them just so you can pass them. I realize you are joking, however no one to date has presented much of a rebuttal other than stating that pulling over is safer - that way you avoid being shot at or otherwise harmed for your infraction.

  6. #36
    bassplaya is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Buy the damn Kia and quit bitchin

  7. #37
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by bassplaya View Post
    Buy the damn Kia and quit bitchin
    Did you realize that was a 5 year old thread?

  8. #38
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    Flash to pass is a courtesy, not a demand.
    In other words the intention of flashing your lights is to notify the driver in front of you that you ARE passing them, not a signal to them to get the heck out of your way. In many states in the US it is in the driver's manual that you should do it, but it isn't enforced because of this type of interpretation.

    XLR doesn't do it and many other of our HID only cars don't for the limiation of HID outlined above.
    The high beam on an XLR is actually just the HID bulb but a mechanical door is moved up and out of the way to expose more of the light beam. Most people don't realize that, that's why you hear the clicking when you switch back and forth.

    I didn't read the bickering at all, which means I skipped about 3/4 of the thread....

  9. #39
    dadilac is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    It's not a courtesy it's the LAW (in va)

    § 46.2-842.1. Drivers to give way to certain overtaking vehicles on divided highways.

    It shall be unlawful to fail to give way to overtaking traffic when driving a motor vehicle to the left and abreast of another motor vehicle on a divided highway. On audible or light signal, the driver of the overtaken vehicle shall move to the right to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass as soon as the overtaken vehicle can safely do so. A violation of this section shall not be construed as negligence per se in any civil action.

  10. #40
    ewill3rd is offline Cadillac Technician
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    I think that pertains more to a two lane road, saying it is illegal to speed up or block someone who is passing you in a legal passing zone. I know a guy who was ticketed for doing that.

    There is a separate section that outlines the light flashing, and flashing your lights doesn't give you the right of way, it is an indicator to the driver in front that you intend to pass.
    If I had time I'd go looking for the language to clarify that.

  11. #41
    dadilac is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/022006/02092006/166829

    Quote by va state police spokesman requiring move to right on light or horn signal even if speeding.

  12. #42
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    wow, what a great thread... i was going to offer a deal on HID bulbs for you guys but forgot due to all the bickering

    as for my personal opinion on FTP: it's a courtesy that most people take as a rude gesture since a lot of the time the people using it aren't being courteous in the first place. the only time i ever flash my headlights is when my car is stopped or slowing to a stop so i can signal to another vehicle or pedestrian that i'm giving them the right of way (to cross, turn, etc) but only at night - in the day i make eye contact and use hand gestures to communicate (just did it today actually to give a guy making a Uturn at a light the right of way even though he had to yield i let him go - in that situation it's more of a courtesy i'm giving the other drivers behind him at the light so the traffic keeps moving through the light)
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  13. #43
    tedcmiller is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Flash To Pass....NOT!

    The attitude exhibited by mswaim is why, even though there is no speed limit on parts of the German autobahn, the death rate is lower on this road than on the US Interstates. I have done a lot of driving in Europe, and you do not dilly-dally in the left lane of any high speed road (German autobahn, Italian autostrata, etc.) or you will be run off the road. This attitude of "my taxes paid for the left lane and I will ride in it at any speed I want" is stupid and irresponsible.Those people who adhere to this attitude are contributing to "road rage" and some of them are dying because of it.

    The explanation of HID headlamps not being available for "flash to pass" is correct. As pointed out by another poster, it probably wouldn't do any good anyway because of the attitude discussed earlier in this post.

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