XLR inventory among highest in the industry

[Crozier]

Originally Posted by Katshot

I'm getting tired of people like you bitching and moaning everytime someone has anything even slightly negative to say about Cadillac or American OEMs in general. This isn't the UAW support website.

Katshot, It just seems that ANYTIME I see your avatar, I KNOW that a negative Cadillac/GM comment is coming. If your comments were even 50%/50% negative to positive, you'd seem a little more like an enthusist. But from my experience, you seem to ALWAYS be ripping on some our favorite cars!
I was grumbling the other night about one of your comments and my wife asked me what was wrong. I told her that "this Katshot guy never has a single good thing to say about these cars." She said, "Oh, he's just a troll." I thought about that for a second and said, "Can you really be a troll and have nearly 4000 posts?"
It does have me a little confused. What's your draw to the board. Do you even like the brand? Perhaps you only like older Caddies? Is it American cars in general that you have issues with? I AM NOT TRYING TO FLAME HERE! Seriously just wondering what's going on!

[Crozier]

Originally Posted by airbalancer

514 ( sold in first 1/4)x 4 is only 2056 car

Remember that this is a 2 seat convertible sports car. They sell better in the warmer months.

[Katshot]

Originally Posted by Crozier

Katshot, It just seems that ANYTIME I see your avatar, I KNOW that a negative Cadillac/GM comment is coming. If your comments were even 50%/50% negative to positive, you'd seem a little more like an enthusist. But from my experience, you seem to ALWAYS be ripping on some our favorite cars!
I was grumbling the other night about one of your comments and my wife asked me what was wrong. I told her that "this Katshot guy never has a single good thing to say about these cars." She said, "Oh, he's just a troll." I thought about that for a second and said, "Can you really be a troll and have nearly 4000 posts?"
It does have me a little confused. What's your draw to the board. Do you even like the brand? Perhaps you only like older Caddies? Is it American cars in general that you have issues with? I AM NOT TRYING TO FLAME HERE! Seriously just wondering what's going on!

That's a fair question. I've explained my rather "unique" position (with respect to Cadillac) here several times. Perhaps it's time again. I understand your confusion.
First of all, I'm NOT a Cadillac enthusiast. I've only owned one Cadillac in my life and probably will never own one again (notice I said "probably").
I have a wide professional automotive background and spent the vast majority of it (over 20 years) doing work directly with and on Cadillacs. My specialty is fleet vehicles.
I do respect Cadillac's history and wish others did too. It seems like most Cadillac owners today have no respect for the history of the marque and really don't care one way or another. Unfortunately, even some people within Cadillac fit into this mold as well.
My reason for being here is that I am intimately familiar with Cadillacs of the 80's and 90's, mainly the Fleetwoods, Broughams, and Devilles. I also have a good deal of behind the scenes experience with Cadillac as I did a lot of technical consulting with them over the years. This makes me a good resource for many Cadillac owners and I'd like to think that I help a good many of them whenever I can. The problem comes when people have an issue with my opinions not being tainted by Cadillac loyalties and enthusiasm.
Hope this helps you to understand my "take" on Cadillac.

[Crozier]

Understood. Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. I haven't had the chance to read your other posts regarding this.
I bet you'd have a thing or two to say about my 1980 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance coupe. It's got the Olds 350 Diesel. Just over 100,000 miles on it in near perfect condition.
This car is about as far from an XLR as they come. That is mostly a good thing, but in some ways a sad thing. In a way it was an XLR of its time. sort of.....
Anyway, I love my old car, and really look forward to purchasing a STS, STS-V, XLR, or XLR-V sometime soon. I think that the only car on the road that will more beautiful than an XLR will be and XLR-V. I think Cadillac has come a long way with performance, driving dynamics, reliablility, and looks. (at least compared to the 70's, 80's and 90's) But I AM missing some of those traditional Cadillac qualities of size, ride, and 'plush' interiors. I love them all, new or old.

[Katshot]

Originally Posted by Crozier

Understood. Thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts. I haven't had the chance to read your other posts regarding this.
I bet you'd have a thing or two to say about my 1980 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance coupe. It's got the Olds 350 Desiel. Just over 100,000 miles on it in near perfect condition.
This car is about as far from an XLR as they come. That is mostly a good thing, but in some ways a sad thing. In a way it was an XLR of its time. sort of.....
Anyway, I love my old car, and really look forward to purchasing a STS, STS-V, XLR, or XLR-V sometime soon. I think that the only car on the road that will more beautiful than an XLR will be and XLR-V. I think Cadillac has come a long way with performance, driving dynamics, reliablility, and looks. (at least compared to the 70's, 80's and 90's) But I AM missing some of those traditional Cadillac qualities of size, ride, and 'plush' interiors. I love them all, new or old.

"...an XLR of it's time."?????????????
WOW, That was a provocative statement!
Actually, that was a nice car, just a damn shame you didn't have a 368 instead of the Diesel. I did a lot of Diesel to Gas conversions back in the day. The KEY to longevity on that diesel is to keep the soot out of the intake. I knew a guys years ago that did a modified intake on an Olds diesel and had great luck with it. He did a number of mods for other owners and they all had great luck after that. Unfortunately, by the time I met the guy, we had already removed all the diesels from our fleet so I couldn't do any testing on his design.

[Crozier]

"an XLR of its time" meaning: 2 door, unique styling, and priced at the top of the Cadillac lineup. Nothing more.
I've never had too much trouble with the car. I've always got around 25-28 mpg on the highway. The transmission has been rebuilt once. I'm sure that it only failed due to the very hilly location of where I lived. The thing will probably do 0-60 in about 5.8 (minutes).
I'll ask my mechanic to check out intake for soot and keep up with it from now on. Thanks for the tip!

[Katshot]

Originally Posted by Crozier

"an XLR of its time" meaning: 2 door, unique styling, and priced at the top of the Cadillac lineup. Nothing more.
I've never had too much trouble with the car. I've always got around 25-28 mpg on the highway. The transmission has been rebuilt once. I'm sure that it only failed due to the very hilly location of where I lived. The thing will probably do 0-60 in about 5.8 (minutes).
I'll ask my mechanic to check out intake for soot and keep up with it from now on. Thanks for the tip!

No problem. If you're gonna go to a mechanic, re-route (or block-off) the EGR (the source of the soot), and advance the pump timing slightly too. Wait 'til you see how that changes the feel of the car. Many people never have the pump timing checked and it has everything to do with the way the car runs. I used to run a slight advance on a couple friends cars and they LOVED it. The engine actually CAN make some torque, you'd be surprised. Between re-routing the EGR and bumping pump timing, the car will feel MUCH more energetic.

[Crozier]

Great! I'll probably block off the EGR myself. I don't recall ever having the pump timing set or adjusted. Is this done in a similar way to setting the timing on a gas engine? Speciality tools required or something that can be done just listening or getting the overall feel of the car.
I've often wondered what to do when this engine finally does go. Have any suggestions? I'm sure a gas conversion would be the simplest route, but this car sure is unique as a diesel. It is funny how many people approach me about it. It's also funny how many gas station attendants yell at me when I start to fill it with diesel. I've had some running out and actually grab the gas hose and turn it off. Even after I explain that it's diesel, then think i'm crazy and start to explain again that diesel will ruin a gas car!
Sorry to jack your thread on you...

[airbalancer]

Originally Posted by Crozier

Remember that this is a 2 seat convertible sports car. They sell better in the warmer months.

aren't most sold it the south states when it is warm all the time
If was that hot of a car ,i think they would be an order only car. no supply at all.
What can Caddy do to make I want have car. I want but at 100,000 CDN I cann't

[Katshot]

Originally Posted by Crozier

Great! I'll probably block off the EGR myself. I don't recall ever having the pump timing set or adjusted. Is this done in a similar way to setting the timing on a gas engine? Speciality tools required or something that can be done just listening or getting the overall feel of the car.
I've often wondered what to do when this engine finally does go. Have any suggestions? I'm sure a gas conversion would be the simplest route, but this car sure is unique as a diesel. It is funny how many people approach me about it. It's also funny how many gas station attendants yell at me when I start to fill it with diesel. I've had some running out and actually grab the gas hose and turn it off. Even after I explain that it's diesel, then think i'm crazy and start to explain again that diesel will ruin a gas car!
Sorry to jack your thread on you...

Yeah, there's a mag-probe type timing light that is the best way to do it but most diesel guys (myself included) usually just do it by eye. There's an alignment mark on the top of the pump mounting flange that corresponds to a mark on the manifold. They're "supposed" to be aligned but I bump it just a tad by eye. As I recall, it's usually about a 1/16" on the marks but that's why I told you to get your mechanic to do it. A couple degrees is all you can do as I recall. Get some input from a diesel mechanic. It would be the safest way. You can also do a Google search to gather info too.

[Playdrv4me]

65-70k should have been the Target price for the XLR to begin with. I think at this price point they would be selling very smoothly, but 80k is pushing it a bit for right NOW. Down the road that would have been acceptable, once the resurgence of Cadillac has been around for a while. But if this means the price of the XLR-V is going to be kissing the 90-95k stratusphere, they better keep those REAL limited.

[BANK]

Supply and demand is the general price fixer. As we are aware some Caddies, Pontiac GTO 04s and others are selling at substantial discounts due to an over supply and little demand. Could be they're selling them for 40% off by summer if the economy tanks. Or getting asking price if it soars.

[Katshot]

Originally Posted by Playdrv4me

65-70k should have been the Target price for the XLR to begin with. I think at this price point they would be selling very smoothly, but 80k is pushing it a bit for right NOW. Down the road that would have been acceptable, once the resurgence of Cadillac has been around for a while. But if this means the price of the XLR-V is going to be kissing the 90-95k stratusphere, they better keep those REAL limited.

I would agree. This was my feeling from the start. I thought the XLR was a little pricey (especially considering it's mainly just a "kinder, gentler" Corvette), and Cadillac hadn't re-established itself quite yet. But considering the car had one of the industry's longest gestation periods, they had to bring it out. And as you said, I'm very concerned about what they will do with the "V" version, price-wise. I have similar concerns about the STS-v. The "Standard" model is well over $60K, who's going to pay $70-$80K for the "V" version?

[Playdrv4me]

I think also part of the reason the XLR sits where it does price-wise MSRP, is because the Corvette Z06 C6 model, will be around that price I mentioned, of 65k or so. Now for THAT car? Yes, that is a reasonable price. It is designed to compete with vehicles twice or three times its price, and has a cult-like following and a strong heritage. Collectors, enthusiasts, and pro racers are among the many in the wide audience that would pay that much for the Corvette. The XLR simply does not enjoy this benefit, but the price seemingly HAD to be pushed up just to make it more exclusive IMO. There is nothing in or on that car that justifies the 80K price tag, plain and simple. 65K for the XLR would be MORE than fair to ask for its luxuries and exclusivity in lieu of the Z06's engine and race qualifications, and even if a loaded Z06 was the same or came close in price, who cares? I for one would not feel slighted if a legendary car like the Z06 was at the same price point as my XLR.

Unfortunately I think Cadillac will have its hands tied with the next two V series entries because of the success they foresaw with the CTS-V, which is some 5-10k over a loaded regular CTS. The problem is that a 50k buyer, is a very different buyer than an 80k or 90k buyer. 50K buyers include the likes of everyone from Escalade owners, to Range Rover owners, to CLK500 and Jaguar S Type owners. Its not too tough to find an audience that will eat up a good solid product at 50k, but once you soar past 65 your entering some rare air and your ocean of buyers is more like a puddle, so then you have to work that much harder to get their attention. In other words, just because the CTS-V was a success at 10k more than its regular model, should be no certain indication that the XLR-V will be able to achieve the same success, especially with the slow sales of the regular model. The STS-V will be a toss-up, I think once it gathers steam it will be as popular as the CTS-V, and the initial excitement will keep them selling for a while, but its really anybodies guess at this point.

To further reinforce the point, GM has cut its earnings forecast by 80 percent due in part to slumping North American auto sales.

[Katshot]

Now you're thinking!
This is GM's curse. I've been saying this for years. IMO, this is what killed the "F" body cars too. They were up against the glass ceiling that is the Corvette. GM has TOO MANY vehicles and there is always going to be the need to balance all the products features AND pricing structure. When you have so many vehicles, it's hard to have all of them occupy their own little niche. There's going to be a good deal of overlap. The problem becomes VERY troublesome when you have a "Halo" vehicle like the Corvette though. The XLR is in a tough spot, on one hand, it owes 100% of it's world-class performance to the Corvette. On the other hand, it must struggle with being directly associated with a Chevy. So even though it may be respected for it's performance, it will always have to live with being called a tarted-up Corvette. That may end up being more than it can bear while trying to command an $80K price. And I think the "V" version will have an even tougher time. This is also why I think the pricing structure of the STS is problematic. At $60K +, it's not leaving enough room for the mark-up needed to cover the extra costs of the "V" version.
This is why I have thought from the start that Cadillac didn't price the "new breed" of cars aggressively enough. IMO, they should've adopted the same strategy that Toyota did when they brought out Lexus. Start out with a good, top of the line product at a bargain price, and then once the line takes off, move the price up. Notice that the Lexus LS car "originally" was down right cheap when it came out but only a few short years later, it's one of the highest priced cars in it's class, enjoying a "benchmark" status and still selling great. IMO, the ONLY thing that would've kept that strategy from working for Cadillac is if they couldn't produce a top-notch product.