What's Cadillac's answer going to be to this (very big Lincoln)?

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by gothicaleigh

'04-'07 CTS-V = 400hp/400tq
'06-up STS/SRX/XLR = 320hp/315tq

...and when they do decide to slap forced induction on them:
STS-V = 469hp/439tq
CTS-V = 550+hp/550+tq

What does Lincoln have again? An "impressive" 235hp V8 mated to a two-ton-plus TownCar? That's not even competitive versus the bargain brands. The last V8 Cadillac with power that low was over 15 years ago!

Hell, Cadillac has naturally aspirated V6's that out-perform pretty much anything Lincoln can bring.

You do realize that the engine from the Town Car has been around for about 17 years now if my memory serves me correctly. But your comparing the Cadillac's performance brand versus a car that is mostly used for livery companies. The engine may not be super powerful but it will run forever and is basically bullet proof. Can you say the samething about the N*? lol no you cannot. Lincoln has taken longer for it to come around then Cadillac but once the twin force engines start coming out Lincoln will be right there. 2009 will be a good year for Lincoln, it will be the beginning of the rebirth I guess you can say. The MKS will be coming out with over 400 hp with the twin force 3.5 V6 and it will also be a flex fuel engine from what i've been hearing. Does Cadillac have any flex fuel vehicles that are putting out that kinda power? i just wanna see as to what Cadillac is going to do with the XLR. The base model engine is the N* and Cadillac has already confirmed that the N* is basically dead in the water so what engine are they going to replace it with? I mean the car is based off of the Corvette's chasis so I guess an LS2 or something could find its way under the hood but either way I'd rather see Cadillac have their own engine for their halo car instead of ripping off of the Corvette. But I do find it funny that after all of these years of GM guys ripping on Ford guys because Ford needs to do F/I applications to make performance cars now GM is doing the exact same thing and GM guys couldn't be more happy with them doing so.

[MauiV]

I like the GM blown cars because that is giving me 200 more horse than what a blown Ford is delivering. Cadi has a V6 delivering 304 sitting at the dealers RIGHT NOW.

My naturally aspirated, 2 ton, 4 door V eats Mustangs up ALL DAY LONG and still gets 24+ mpg on the highway.

Lincoln is now building ugly cars at an inflated price. The MKZ is horrible, the MKX just as ugly and the Navigator rear end has been ruined. If they dont build the MKR with 500+ HP I still wont drive a Ford product.

There are no ethenol stations within 50 miles of my house so a flex fuel car is pretty much USELESS to me.

Ford bet the company on big SUV's and lost. They are way behind and much more than a dollar short.

[Night Wolf]

210hp/275tq in my Town Car is plenty. Gets the job done nicely, its peppy, smooth, 87 octane and as mentioned... it's like the energizer bunny I choose reliable over powerful.

I guess I'm the only one that actually likes that concept car? That grille/nose won't make it to production, but still.

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by Night Wolf

210hp/275tq in my Town Car is plenty. Gets the job done nicely, its peppy, smooth, 87 octane and as mentioned... it's like the energizer bunny I choose reliable over powerful.

I guess I'm the only one that actually likes that concept car? That grille/nose won't make it to production, but still.

Exactly. Not every car made has to be a performance car

[mrplease]

Originally Posted by Blackout

lol and Cadillac has what again? Have you looked at the engines in the V lineup? Hell Cadillac is dumping the V8's and going with V6's and turbo diesels instead. What's the saying about people living in glass houses again?

EDIT: And the LS was not a great car. Nice car, but not great by any means

well motor trend awarded it as Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2000 & the the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has rated the LS as “one of the five safest cars of all time.”

[mrplease]

Originally Posted by gothicaleigh

'04-'07 CTS-V = 400hp/400tq
'06-up STS/SRX/XLR = 320hp/315tq

...and when they do decide to slap forced induction on them:
STS-V = 469hp/439tq
CTS-V = 550+hp/550+tq

What does Lincoln have again? An "impressive" 235hp V8 mated to a two-ton-plus Town Car? That's not even competitive versus the bargain brands. The last V8 Cadillac with power that low was over 15 years ago!

Hell, Cadillac has naturally aspirated V6's that out-perform pretty much anything Lincoln can bring.

you do understand the towncar isn't a performance car don't you?

[Lord Cadillac]

Originally Posted by mrplease

well motor trend awarded it as Motor Trend Car of the Year in 2000 & the the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has rated the LS as “one of the five safest cars of all time.”

The Lincoln LS was nice, but I agree with Blackout - it wasn't "great" by any means. How many times has the Toyota Camry been "car of the year"?

[gothicaleigh]

Originally Posted by Blackout

But your comparing the Cadillac's performance brand versus a car that is mostly used for livery companies.

Originally Posted by mrplease

you do understand the towncar isn't a performance car don't you?

Neither are the STS or SRX (listed with 320hp Northstars).
If you want a closer comparison, pull up the numbers for the DTS (292hp N*).

That post was responding to the accusation below that like Ford, Cadillac could only produce competitive engines by resorting to forced induction.

"But I do find it funny that after all of these years of GM guys ripping on Ford guys because Ford needs to do F/I applications to make performance cars now GM is doing the exact same thing and GM guys couldn't be more happy with them doing so." ~Blackout

Yes, the TownCar is most definately not a performance vehicle (I would not consider any of the modern Lincolns to be), but as a luxury vehicle it should have a premium engine, not an underpowered Ford V8.

Originally Posted by Blackout

You do realize that the engine from the Town Car has been around for about 17 years now if my memory serves me correctly.

So what? The Northstar has been around for over 15 years.

Ford's inability to update their engine to keep up with modern expectations is not a very good excuse.

Originally Posted by Blackout

Can you say the samething about the N*? lol no you cannot.

I've owned two Northstar cars, both running into high mileage with no problems. "lol" yes I can.

Originally Posted by Blackout

Lincoln has taken longer for it to come around then Cadillac but once the twin force engines start coming out Lincoln will be right there. 2009 will be a good year for Lincoln, it will be the beginning of the rebirth I guess you can say. The MKS will be coming out with over 400 hp with the twin force 3.5 V6 and it will also be a flex fuel engine from what i've been hearing. Does Cadillac have any flex fuel vehicles that are putting out that kinda power?

If you want flexfuel, buy a Chevy (they've been available since 2006). While Lincoln once again plays catch-up with lesser GM makes, Cadillac is moving forward with Hydrogen, a true replacement for gasoline.

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by gothicaleigh

Neither are the STS or SRX (listed with 320hp Northstars).
If you want a closer comparison, pull up the numbers for the DTS (292hp N*).

That's Cadillac's decision to do so and Lincoln's decision to do so. Do you really think that it would be hard for them to toss in the Mustang 4.6 V8? No, they're using the older 4.6 because it's a proven engine that is bullet proof. The Northstar is a nice powerful motor but your only kidding yourself if you actually think that it has as good of a track record as the Town Car's 4.6.

That post was responding to the accusation below that like Ford, Cadillac could only produce competitive engines by resorting to forced induction.

Well the whole V lineup consists of F/I engines so I am wrong how? They have the Northstar but it's far from being a "performance" engine in stock trim. The DI V6 is putting out damn near the same power hence why Cadillac is dumping the Northstar engine in 2010. Don't get me into as to how/why Cadillac has to reduce the displacement of the Northstar for the STS-V and XLR-V for the F/I application. When Ford supercharged the 4.6 how much did they reduce the displacement again? They didn't have to because Ford 4.6 is a better motor. Between Ford's 4.6 and the Northstar which one has a following behind it for blowing head gaskets? Certainly not the Ford 4.6.

Yes, the TownCar is most definately not a performance vehicle (I would not consider any of the modern Lincolns to be), but as a luxury vehicle it should have a premium engine, not an underpowered Ford V8.

Again read what what I posted above and think to yourself would you rather have the "premium" Northstar motor that blows head gaskets or a slightly underpowered Town Car motor that will easily go over 200k miles without any issues? I think the Town Car's motor is more "premium" then the Northstar.

Ford's inability to update their engine to keep up with modern expectations is not a very good excuse.

Nobody is complaining about the engine besides you and the others that feel every car made now adays has to have 300+ hp or it's a piece of junk.

I've owned two Northstar cars, both running into high mileage with no problems. "lol" yes I can.

Congrats, and I hope you never have a problem with either of them, but the engines track record proves otherwise.

If you want flexfuel, buy a Chevy (they've been available since 2006). While Lincoln once again plays catch-up with lesser GM makes, Cadillac is moving forward with Hydrogen, a true replacement for gasoline.

lol my 1995 Ford Taurus has a flex fuel engine option. I loved watching GM making all of these commercials about "flex fuel" and how they're the leader. But Ford was already doing that a decade before

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac

The Lincoln LS was nice, but I agree with Blackout - it wasn't "great" by any means. How many times has the Toyota Camry been "car of the year"?

Hell the Toyota Prius was Motor Trends car of the year in 2004 lol. Car of the year means jack. Hell in 2002 the Ford Thunderbird was car of the year lmao

[MauiV]

Originally Posted by Blackout

every car made now adays has to have 300+ hp or it's a piece of junk.

Now we finally agree on something.

[Lord Cadillac]

ANYWAY.. The reason I feel Cadillac needs an answer to the Lincoln MKT is... As it stands, Crossover SUVs are a little too small. They could be bigger. Wider and longer wouldn't hurt. And this Lincoln is just that. It's on a car platform - so the driving experience won't be truck-like, but it'll have the roominess of a full-size SUV. If you don't feel there's a need for Cadillac to counter something like this, than we'll just have to see what happens if and when Lincoln places these on showroom floors. I think the same thing is going to happen as when Lincoln came out with the Navigator.

If Cadillac doesn't start planning now, they're going to have another first generation Escalade on their hands to compete with it.

[ejguillot]

Originally Posted by Blackout

Don't get me into as to how/why Cadillac has to reduce the displacement of the Northstar for the STS-V and XLR-V for the F/I application. When Ford supercharged the 4.6 how much did they reduce the displacement again? They didn't have to because Ford 4.6 is a better motor.

Blackout, you're leaving out one important fact! When Ford F/I the 4.6, they did it with an IRON block. (see the 03-04 Cobra Mustang.) And that was at a 100+ lb weight penalty over the Al block.

Now, let's see... Lose .2L (4% of the original displacement, easy to regain with a hair more boost), or gain 100+ lbs (in the front of the car, worsening the weight distribution)... I'll take Cadillac's answer, thanks.

And I haven't heard of ANY F/I Northstar having head gasket issues, have you?

[MauiV]

Originally Posted by ejguillot

Blackout, you're leaving out one important fact! When Ford F/I the 4.6, they did it with an IRON block. (see the 03-04 Cobra Mustang.) And that was at a 100+ lb weight penalty over the Al block.

Now, let's see... Lose .2L (4% of the original displacement, easy to regain with a hair more boost), or gain 100+ lbs (in the front of the car, worsening the weight distribution)... I'll take Cadillac's answer, thanks.

And I haven't heard of ANY F/I Northstar having head gasket issues, have you?

And most importantly, in the end, your still driving a FORD!!!

[93DevilleUSMC]

Originally Posted by Jesda

I hope Cadillac's answer to that is dead silence.

Originally Posted by GTPprix

Probably more like a muffled cackle... LOL

Originally Posted by CTSV_Rob

Wow, That's even uglier then the $150,000 RR Phantom replica.

Originally Posted by NOT ON MY WATCH

It may be roomy, but it's downright ugly.

The front grille looks like that car from the Alec Baldwin movie "The Shadow".
They're both ugly; the movie flopped, and this car will flop.