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Cadillac V-Sport General Discussion Discussion, 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!! in Cadillac CTS V-Sport; Originally Posted by GT|Motion An e30 m3 has much less horsepower than a normal 3 series, that doesn't mean the ...
  1. #46
    D3l7a3ch0's Avatar
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by GT|Motion View Post
    An e30 m3 has much less horsepower than a normal 3 series, that doesn't mean the new 3 series is better or as fun to drive.
    you... don't expect to be taken seriously after what you just wrote... do you?

  2. #47
    carlson_mn is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    New front end reminds me of the newer MB E-series.
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  3. #48
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by repenttokyo View Post
    it will definitely be heavier. it's going to be larger in every dimension than the current CTS, and it's going up against the A6 and the 5 Series.

    I'd say the 2.0T will be the volume engine, but that the TT V6 will be second in sales. Most people want the entry-level or the top tier, not the mid-tier engine.

    I also don't see the CTS-V getting any lighter. Why would it drop 600 lbs? It is EXTREMELY difficult to lose that much weight from one generation to another, especially when making the car bigger. I think the only vehicle to lose close to that much weight in recent memory is the Land Rover Range Rover, and that's because they went to an almost all-aluminum design.

    in any case, I have my invitation to Cadillac's CTS launch Tuesday night in NYC, so I'll find out the details soon enough.
    Because its moving to the alpha platform, which was design from the ground up to be a very light chassis. And GM has already stated that the next cts is going to be lighter than the current one. The current is cts is based on the porky sts platform. And proves that suspension engineers can work miracles with obese vehicles.
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  4. #49
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by D3l7a3ch0 View Post
    you... don't expect to be taken seriously after what you just wrote... do you?
    I was making the connection that just because something newer comes out with more power, does not mean your car is any less special than it was. Just about every manufacturer has added power over the years to all models. A Ferrari 355 Challenge is slower than a normal F430, does that mean the older special edition is no longer as special because a newer normal edition has come out with more power from the factory?
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  5. #50
    RyRidesMotoX is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post

    The 3rd gen CTS is going to be lighter. Much, much lighter. The ATS starts at 3300 lbs, and the CTS is going to be a slightly longer ATS.
    Well seeing as they are going to be outfitted with all the 2014 gizmos and doodads I think it will be heavier than the first gen. I should have been more specific in my previous post. My apologies.
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  6. #51
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by GT|Motion View Post
    I was making the connection that just because something newer comes out with more power, does not mean your car is any less special than it was. Just about every manufacturer has added power over the years to all models. A Ferrari 355 Challenge is slower than a normal F430, does that mean the older special edition is no longer as special because a newer normal edition has come out with more power from the factory?
    Nevermind, it's worse than I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by carlson_mn View Post
    New front end reminds me of the newer MB E-series.
    also the latest BMWs. I assume you're referring to the blunt nose that is apparent in side view? oh wait, you might mean the headlights.

    I saw a 5-series on the road earlier, and it struck me as similar to the CTS preview shots linked in this thread.

  7. #52
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    Because its moving to the alpha platform, which was design from the ground up to be a very light chassis. And GM has already stated that the next cts is going to be lighter than the current one. ...
    So, by extrapolation, IF the ATS-V does indeed get the new 3.6TT, then the new CTS-V, which we're fairly certain will be in the 3,600-3,700 lb range maybe as high as 3,800 as evidenced by the stretched Alpha platform it's going to be on, may get either the new LT1 or possibly some sort of a FI version of the LT1. With the NA version, at 450 hp it should nearly equal the current CTS-V's performance I'd think. At anything over 500 hp, it should indeed be in the "stupid fast" category.
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  8. #53
    Andringa is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    So, by extrapolation, IF the ATS-V does indeed get the new 3.6TT, then the new CTS-V, which we're fairly certain will be in the 3,600-3,700 lb range maybe as high as 3,800 as evidenced by the stretched Alpha platform it's going to be on, may get either the new LT1 or possibly some sort of a FI version of the LT1. With the NA version, at 450 hp it should nearly equal the current CTS-V's performance I'd think. At anything over 500 hp, it should indeed be in the "stupid fast" category.
    Purely from a marketing standpoint, I don't see them selling a CTS-V3 with less horsepower than the CTS-V2. I think carrying over the LSA with the same output is probably a minimum. Possibly a different engine with the same output, but I don't think that is as likely.
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andringa View Post
    Purely from a marketing standpoint, I don't see them selling a CTS-V3 with less horsepower than the CTS-V2. I think carrying over the LSA with the same output is probably a minimum. Possibly a different engine with the same output, but I don't think that is as likely.
    Good point. But, at a weight significantly under 4,000 lbs (stretched Alpha platform) and, say, 580 hp (the ZL1 version of the LSA) ... well, I just can't imagine!

    JimmyH's comment about "stupid fast" will be so-o appropriate.
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    RyRidesMotoX is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    You have to also think the new Shelby has 650ish HP. While it isn't even close to the luxury of the current Cadillac V, and won't be as nice as the new one, I'm thinking it will at least have to partially compete with it.

    I have seen rumblings on the internet about a forced induction LT1. Plus seeing as how they want cars to get more and more fuel economy, a turbocharged car would make the most sense. That would be pretty awesome. If they want the cts-v to continue to compete with the m5 they are going to need some serious power.
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  11. #56
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Considering the ATS-V will be the M3 fighter, an ATS-V with only 420hp will not be enough to combat a newer M3, while the older M3 which outputs 420hp and weighs in at just about 3700lbs range... cuts mid 12s at ~112mph thanks to its DCT transmission more then anything. ATS-V is going to need low 12s @ 115+mph. Thats what a V2 cuts, brand new. Newer ATS-V might end up being somewhere in the neighborhood of 3700lbs after all options, etc... and with just 420hp, isn't going to cut it vs even the old M3 DCT, IMO. A 500hp version of the ATS-V would be exactly what you'd need to beat the M3 at that weight.

    I doubt the newer CTS-V will have less then 556hp. If it did, it would be career suicide for whoever is in charge of that market. I expect it to make significantly more... not just 580hp either. The older gen M5 made 500hp out of a NA V10 and put down numbers very close to the CTS-V in terms of trap and ET both. In comparison for the new M5 vs the '09 V...

    2013 BMW M5 (DCT) 0-60 3.7 sec 1/4 mile 11.9 sec @ 120.3 mph
    2011 Cadillac CTS-V 0-60 4.0 sec 1/4 mile 12.3 sec @ 117.7 mph

    Their best bet will not be to equal the high 11s at 120 (which is impressive for a sedan) and what we've seen from lightly modded V2s, but it will be to beat it and although you can probably best ET with a lighter car, you will need power to best trap IMO.

    Considering if they remove 200lbs from the current curb weight for the V model... They'll need 600hp or more to significantly best the car and be noticable in any side by side comparison test vs a BMW M5 DCT.

    While the V2 was noted as 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, this was in the coupe... in good conditions, with an excellent driver. On average, the V2 was 0-60 in 4.2... just like the V1 was normally 0-60 in broken-axle, instead of the 4.7 advertised. LOL. It needs to have the power to best its competition while being easily accessible and able to put down the power. I think the performance division has learned alot since the V1, and don't see that as being an issue. I would expect this new generation of V to put down even more power. 400hp, 556hp, ____hp?

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    RyRidesMotoX is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    If they do a turbo version of the LT1 it would be a beast. My last car was a DI turbo 4 banger. With a tune and some simple built ons it was throwing down like 400lbs/trq to the wheels. I was pulling vettes and supercharged 4.6 mustangs on the big roval track at Fontana, CA. A LT1 turbo (maybe twins???) would make a person mess his pants with a tune, downpipes, good intercooler(s) and charge pipes. I sure hope that's what they do. Although I couldn't afford one, it sure would be awesome to see.
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  13. #58
    repenttokyo is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    Because its moving to the alpha platform, which was design from the ground up to be a very light chassis. And GM has already stated that the next cts is going to be lighter than the current one. The current is cts is based on the porky sts platform. And proves that suspension engineers can work miracles with obese vehicles.
    I hope you are right - but 600 lbs?

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by D3l7a3ch0 View Post
    you... don't expect to be taken seriously after what you just wrote... do you?
    i take him seriously. i'd rather drive an e30 m3 than a new 3 Series. And I am not in the minority.
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  14. #59
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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    I was referring to the argument by analogy

    the follow-up post included more of the same and a presupposition that I needed/wanted reassurance that my V is special

    that's when I tune out.

    but maybe i'm touchy. maybe I didn't need to say anything

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    Re: 2014 regular CTS to have 420 HP !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by repenttokyo View Post
    I hope you are right - but 600 lbs?

    ----------



    i take him seriously. i'd rather drive an e30 m3 than a new 3 Series. And I am not in the minority.
    I think 600lbs is a tall order on a luxury sedan. I wouldn't expect 600lbs difference. If it loses weight (which in itself would be amazing considering each model always gains weight), it would at most IMO lose 200lbs. If the 5th gen Camaro weighed as much as the 4th gen, and not closer to what a V1 weighs, it would be much faster and a much better car. However, options and safety equipment weigh newer cars down. To lose 600lbs is too tall of an order on a CTS-V, IMO.

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