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Cadillac Tech Tips - How to fix it Discussion, Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860 in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Well add another one to the list...I just completed the TCC solenoid replacement w/complications. The filter came loose as soon ...
  1. #76
    derone is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Well add another one to the list...I just completed the TCC solenoid replacement w/complications. The filter came loose as soon as the cover was moved away from the body of the transaxle. Good thing is, I found the cradle can be lowered enough on that side to completely remove the cover and put the filter back in place. I bought a filter kit during the job, but it had the wrong filter in it. The 'neck' on it was at the end of it instead of about 1/3 of the way down on it. Go figure..., even the Helms factory manual has the wrong picture of it. It took two days, but if I had to do it again, I'd lower the cradle right away, and probably could do it in half the time. I should have broke out the air tools too. There's alot of heavy bolts in this job. I did use the baggie tie to get the retainer pin in, but looking back at it, I should've gone straight for the cradle once the sheet metal filter came loose. Anyway, initial testing shows this $40 procedure did rectify the problem. The old solenoid connector broke away from its body like the pics already posted. Many thanks to the folks here for another cure to the Seville blues.

  2. #77
    codewize's Avatar
    codewize is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Just started getting these codes on my 02 Deville. The past few weeks I've noticed what felt like some bucking while under sight load on the hi-way. Codes just started today.

    I seem to be good on the road test part (Step 1). Tach goes up and down as you say it should. I'll have my mechanic check the wring the next time it's in the shop. Thankfully the car just got inspected last week after a fight with secondary air injection problems.

    I'll keep you posted

    UPDATE: My mechanic opted to not look at this and advised me to go to a transmission shop. One of which we both know and trust. Just out of curiosity, whats the time involved in using this method as apposed to pulling the drivetrain?
    Ownership:
    91 Brougham d'Elegance 350
    95 Fleetwood Brougham
    02 Deville DTS
    01 Deville DTS:
    Custom installed Volant CAI
    Custom PCM
    Body color engine components
    Cruiser Alloy wheels
    EBC brakes and rotors
    Eibach springs
    Corsa exhaust
    Sportwing Spoiler
    Semi-custom interior
    Custom quad Hi-Beams

    Memberships:
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    Guinness World Records - Largest Cadillac Parade

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  3. #78
    codewize's Avatar
    codewize is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Dealer quoted me $890, transmission shop quoted $1000. Both said there's no way do to the job without pulling the drivetrain. The transmission guy said hes tried and broken 2 steering racks in the process.
    Ownership:
    91 Brougham d'Elegance 350
    95 Fleetwood Brougham
    02 Deville DTS
    01 Deville DTS:
    Custom installed Volant CAI
    Custom PCM
    Body color engine components
    Cruiser Alloy wheels
    EBC brakes and rotors
    Eibach springs
    Corsa exhaust
    Sportwing Spoiler
    Semi-custom interior
    Custom quad Hi-Beams

    Memberships:
    National and regional Cadillac & LaSalle Club
    Proud Volunteer - Northstar Tuning Project
    Guinness World Records - Largest Cadillac Parade

    ----------------------------

  4. #79
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, stick on fender vents
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Kicker is, you may also in the torque converter/transmission output shaft seal replacement business.

    P 1860 alone says it's the control solenoid, do-able with the microsurgery procedure....... BUT the P 0741 also says the TCC itself is faulty/leaking, so out comes the converter.

    When my solenoid went, the car did the same intermittent highway speed bucking feel, as the TCC went in and out, then the solenoid finally failed - BUT I never had the P 0741 code - never. Only P 1860 - and that was simple to clear on the fly, using the ScanGauge-II. The TCC failure cost me about 1 mpg. Clear the code, out goes the light, and it resets on the second start-run event after reset, over 43 mph.

  5. #80
    codewize's Avatar
    codewize is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    That's pretty impressive. The axle seal on the driver side does leak. Is that what you're talking about? The last time I encountered that it wasn't pretty. The entire final drive assembly had come apart causing a complete rebuild.

    Interesting thing about that incident is there were no symptoms other than the leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner409 View Post
    Kicker is, you may also in the torque converter/transmission output shaft seal replacement business.

    P 1860 alone says it's the control solenoid, do-able with the microsurgery procedure....... BUT the P 0741 also says the TCC itself is faulty/leaking, so out comes the converter.

    When my solenoid went, the car did the same intermittent highway speed bucking feel, as the TCC went in and out, then the solenoid finally failed - BUT I never had the P 0741 code - never. Only P 1860 - and that was simple to clear on the fly, using the ScanGauge-II. The TCC failure cost me about 1 mpg. Clear the code, out goes the light, and it resets on the second start-run event after reset, over 43 mph.
    Ownership:
    91 Brougham d'Elegance 350
    95 Fleetwood Brougham
    02 Deville DTS
    01 Deville DTS:
    Custom installed Volant CAI
    Custom PCM
    Body color engine components
    Cruiser Alloy wheels
    EBC brakes and rotors
    Eibach springs
    Corsa exhaust
    Sportwing Spoiler
    Semi-custom interior
    Custom quad Hi-Beams

    Memberships:
    National and regional Cadillac & LaSalle Club
    Proud Volunteer - Northstar Tuning Project
    Guinness World Records - Largest Cadillac Parade

    ----------------------------

  6. #81
    Submariner409's Avatar
    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, stick on fender vents
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Not the axle seal - the TCC input shaft seal. The TCC solenoid ports transmission fluid pressure to the converter input shaft ports - that pressure sets the viscous clutch in the converter. P 0741 says the solenoid (monitored by P 1860) is working but the clutch itself is not. If/when the solenoid electrical connector stub (336) breaks off, then you get the P 1860 code and maybe P 0741.

    The DTC test sequence for TCC operation is: Solenoid first; if good, then it waits for the 43 mph road load TCC set. If good, no codes. If the solenoid is faulty, P 1860 sets and the system does not "look" for TCC engagement. If the solenoid is good, it then "looks" for TCC lockup - if no go, P 0741 sets.

  7. #82
    codewize's Avatar
    codewize is online now Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Thanks Sub, you're a star. So there's a seal on the input shaft which if leaks causes pressure loss etc etc. I imagine that's not a huge repair at this point once you're into that far. LOL
    Ownership:
    91 Brougham d'Elegance 350
    95 Fleetwood Brougham
    02 Deville DTS
    01 Deville DTS:
    Custom installed Volant CAI
    Custom PCM
    Body color engine components
    Cruiser Alloy wheels
    EBC brakes and rotors
    Eibach springs
    Corsa exhaust
    Sportwing Spoiler
    Semi-custom interior
    Custom quad Hi-Beams

    Memberships:
    National and regional Cadillac & LaSalle Club
    Proud Volunteer - Northstar Tuning Project
    Guinness World Records - Largest Cadillac Parade

    ----------------------------

  8. #83
    derone is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Quote Originally Posted by codewize View Post
    The transmission guy said hes tried and broken 2 steering racks in the process.
    The steering rack is mounted to the cradle. You must disconnect the rack from the steering shaft joint, by removing one cinch bolt when the cradle comes down either on one side or both.

  9. #84
    Dante is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    I'm in the middle of this job now on my 2001 SLS. Everything has gone smoothly until I got to that motor mount stud on the right. What tools exactly were used to get that off? Doesn't seem like enough room for a regular open wrench. I tried a crow foot wrench but can't get that in there either. I took off the air hose and the tie-rod to move them out of the way. I think I'm going to go to the store to try to find a stubby wrench or something.

    Update: Once I actually got the right size wrench it came out in 5 minutes. There is no need to actually remove that bolt, just unscrew it and let it sit there in the bracket. I used the magnet method to get the hairpin in place. Getting in place was easy, I did it about 30 times, but it took forever to snap it in. I finally used my two index fingers to grip it and push it in. Once I thought it snapped in and I stepped away with a great feeling of accomplishment and then I heard "ping". It popped out and hit the pan and dropped down inside. The pin is really easy to get out if it falls in. I just tilted the bottom of the pan down a little and shook it till I could see the pin over the edge and then grabbed it with a magnet.

    Now I can't finish putting it together because that little coolant push connector at the back of the engine crumbled to pieces. I don't think any GM dealer parts departments are open on Sunday.

  10. #85
    Glock3540 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Hello Everyone, I guess you can add me to the list as well. I just completed the project today. I too had the dreaded P0741 and P1860 codes. I was driving down the interstate and had to slow down to merge onto an entrance ramp to a different interstate (here in Nashville we have 3). When I got down to appx 40 mph, the entire car shuddered and the engine almost quit. My first impression was maybe a fuel related issue? After I got back home, and checking the codes, I learned what my issue was. I did not find anyone else that had the "shudder" problem but I decided to tackle the TCC solenoid anyway.
    After pouring over posts by others that have done this repair, I decided to do it in car without dropping the cradle. I've replaced many parts on this car during the 5 years I have owned it. I'm very
    familiar with the 2000 Deville engine component disassembly! lol. I anticipated it would take me appx 6 hours or so to complete the repair. My time guesstimate would have been pretty close if I had not run upon an entirely unexpected issue that arose. Evidentially when unscrewing the upper right motor mount bracket bolt (that is attached to the transmission but is difficult to unscrew due to very limited access) the threads stripped out also. Over the decades that I have shade treed auto restoration/repair, I have had many threads strip upon trying to tighten when reinstalling a bolt but this was my first when taking a bolt OUT. Thankfully there were some untouched threads deeper into the bolt hole. The hardware store had some longer bolts that I used to complete the assembly process (after cutting them down to slightly shorter than the hole depth plus the bracket thickness.
    The TCC solenoid itself was burnt and came apart in my hand when I took it out. The dreaded pin reinstallation was the most difficult part of the repair. I used the OP's wire jig method but my hands are rather large so it was Very Difficult to finally reach into the crevice to push the pin/clip back in. I think I left some flesh inside the side cover case..
    After finally getting it all buttoned back up, I guessed it needed appx 1 qt of Trans Oil (I've used Amsoil synthetic for years now and it really does make the shifts smoother) I started it up and checked
    to make sure all is well. It was then I noticed a leak, not of transmission fluid but of coolant. I'm very familiar with all of the coolant lines because I replaced the crossover manifold gaskets earlier this year
    (another difficult repair) to stop a persistent leak. The there is a metal coolant hose that attaches to the block near the firewall. Where it connects is a plastic retainer clip on the metal tube that holds it inside a metal housing that is screwed into the block. The housing has a type of flat rubber washer or o-ring (for lack of a better description) and that is where the leak was originating. That tube and connector are the only hoses that I DID NOT replace during the crossover gasket replacement repair. I guess the rubber had hardened over the past 15+ years so I went to the hardware store and purchased a hollow brass fitting that is threaded on one side and has a barb on the other. Screwed it into the block where the original part was (along with some heavy duty teflon tape), attached a small length of heater hose to both male ends, a couple of clamps and voila', Done! ( I actually got the idea from another guy that did this repair) Refilled the overflow tank to spec, started the engine and added a little more and everything is great.
    The test drive confirms the TCC solenoid is doing it's job. Shifts smooth as butter. No more issues, and no more leaks! Yah!

    The Service Engine Light would have driven me nuts even if it is no big deal to reset it. I want my auto to operate as designed as close as it possibly can.
    I've now replaced all the rotors (AC Delco), wheels (OEM Cadillac), tires (Michelin Primacy), struts and shocks, air shock system, tie rod ends (Moog), all wheel bearings/hubs (Timken), front motor mount, water pump, both CV assemblies, battery, entire sound system (that I wired so you can use the steering wheel controls), two unique steel cable engine tilt limiters (to prolong the life of the front engine mount), the fuel pump assembly, steering wheel and gauge cluster, blower motor assembly, suspension adjustable links, control arm bushings, ball joints, and many more parts that don't come to mind at the moment. I've replaced the trans fluid, coolant, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and all other fluids many times. I only use the best Amsoil oil and filters. The car has taken quite a bit of my time but i really do not mind that too much. It is difficult to understand why the Cadillac engineers made it so difficult to work on on a vehicle that definitely needs quite a bit of maintenance/repairs to keep it running like new. My wife's Honda Accord has over 180.000 miles on it since I bought it new for her in 2004 with almost no issues whatsoever. I'm hope to buy her an Acura MDX pretty soon. I will most likely give the Deville to my grandson in the next few years. After putting over $6000 worth of parts on it I cannot bear to sell it for 1/2 that amount or less.
    I sat in a two different LS460's a few weeks ago (one of them was an F-Sport) and they were very nice. The biggest difference I immediately noticed was the seat comfort. The LS's seats made my Caddy's seats seem like a park bench in comparison. I'm most likely going to get an extended wheelbase "L" version. They are supposed to have the best ride. I'm getting a little older now and getting
    up and down and under again doing car repairs is getting harder and harder.
    You guys on this forum are some brilliant mechanics and I am very grateful for all of your advice over the years. Who knows, maybe I'll keep the old girl awhile yet and save my money....
    Thanks for letting me ramble and I apologize if I hijacked the thread. Blessings,Brian

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