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Cadillac Tech Tips - How to fix it Discussion, Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860 in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; 0216031337.jpg The beginning of the trouble.... End of trouble was solved by the bottle opener and a 12 pack of ...
  1. #61
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    0216031337.jpg
    The beginning of the trouble....
    End of trouble was solved by the bottle opener and a 12 pack of Stella Artois
    dnapowersports likes this.

  2. #62
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    I donated $20 to the site this morning.
    Do I get a supporter label?

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    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, stick on fender vents
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Quote Originally Posted by OTTO View Post
    I donated $20 to the site this morning.
    Do I get a supporter label?
    Donations is donations. Go into your settings and/or profile and find the paid subscriptions tab. That will open your existing subscription level and expiration date. Then scroll down to what level/time period you want to pay for.

  4. #64
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    No sweat. I paid $20 for advice that saved me $2000
    I call that a bargain

  5. #65
    pjc0715 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Guys,

    I am in a bad way here with my 2002 Deville. With only 85k miles on it, I thought I got a good deal on it for $4200. It's been nothing but trouble. So far I've had replaced front rotors, wheel bearings, inner and outer front driver side tie rod ends, a window regulator, both valve cover gaskets. It still needs an oil pan gasket and I have P1189, P0741 and P1860. On the advice of a friend who does most of my work for me on the cheap, I had decided to cut my losses and try to sell it before I totally lose my butt. But I wanted to take a crack at this procedure myself to aid in selling the car. Who wants to buy a $3500 car with a check engine light that will cost $2k to fix, not to mention the oil pan gasket being another $2k. Welp, with the help of my handy-but-not-a-mechanic-uncle and his plethora of tools, we took a crack at it today. It's been a nightmare. We have spent nearly all day just wrestling with the bolts for the motor mounts and side panel of transmission. Finally, 8 hours and two trips to the store for more tools, we got it cracked open. I can see the solenoid, sure enough the connector piece is cracked off .. looks melted. I get in there with a mirror and for the life of me I cannot see the pin. I'm thinking maybe it's already out and down in the bottom. I'm looking and feeling around from the bottom and can't see anything. My uncle looks, my 14 year old son looks, I look again and we cannot see the hairpin anywhere. Determined not to turn back now, I think maybe it came out and is down in there so let me go ahead and pull out the solenoid. So I am tugging at it and it spins but wont budge. So I see the little notches that look like they might be for a flathead screwdriver, to pry it out. And I do that. And the freaking thing breaks! So now part of the solenoid is still stuck inside the receptacle for it. I'm looking at it with the mirror and stuck in there as well, i see what appears to be a couple of strips of metal. Yep, it's the hairpin, and it's stuck in there good. I manage to get in there with some needle nose pliers and yank it out. It's mangled all to hell, I don't know how it was in there but apparently it was indeed there though none of us could see it, and my yanking out the solenoid with it still in place caused it to break in there. I don't think I can get the rest of the solenoid out (or can I???) and my hairpin is bent up. So right now my car is in pieces in my uncle's driveway which is 1.5 hours from my house, with half of the broken solenoid still in its receptacle and I don't know what the heck to do.

    Please someone take pity on me and give me some advice. At this point my non-mechanic mind is thinking that the solenoid didn't work anyway, so just try to put everything back together and pray that it will continue to run like it has, with the codes still tripped but a running vehicle that I can maybe try to sell for a couple thousand bucks. Or am I to the point of having to tow this thing to the dealer, them wanting $2-3k to fix my mess, which won't be worth it, so the car will be a total loss. I bought this car in March and on top of the $4200 I paid (from a dealer), I'm already about a $1k into it in repairs. So if it costs me $2500-3k to get this fixed just to sell it, I'm now in ~$8k and can hope to get maybe $3500 private party sale so net loss of ~$4500. Or junk it now and net loss of ~$5500. Or maybe I can put it back together with a broken solenoid but a car that will run and sell it for ~$2k and net loss of ~$3500. Alot of if's and round numbers, but I think my math is pretty close.

    I know I'm kind of rambling here but these are the thoughts going through my head after now having been at this for nearly 11 hours out in the N. Carolina heat. Please, someone take pity on me and either give me some hope or the bad news, but any expert advice would be most appreciated!!!!

    Thanks
    Phil

  6. #66
    glover is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    As far as leavn it in im not sure depends on if it opened up a hydraulic channel in the valve body which would cause a major pressure loss n whatever it controlled. I would probably keep workn at it with a small pick gently to see if u can work it outta there. You will have to get a new retainer though. Good luck man

  7. #67
    speelerr is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Hello all, Thanks for all the advice.
    I finished the installation of the new TCC solenoid. The hairpin was the hardest part.
    Unfortunately, the side transmission filter came loose and fell down in the side cover. Has this happened to anyone or just really bad luck. I think I will finish putting everything back together and just hope for the best. Thanks again to everyone.

    ----------

    Hello all,
    I got the p0741 p1860 combo on my 2002 Deville with 175K miles. Thanks to all the great advice from everyone, I decided to try to fix it my self. In about 3 hours I had the TCC solenoid removed. The hardest part was finding and removing the locking pin. Even harder than that was getting the pin installed again. But after about 1 hour it finally was installed correctly. By the way, the old solenoid was broken at the electrical connector so I was happy to see that.

    Now for the very bad news. At some point while I was trying to install the pin, I heard something drop in the side cover and some more tranny fluid started pouring out. I realized right away that the main filter had come loose and fell down in the side cover. I can move it with my fingers but I can't push it back up to install it. I can't believe that this filter is not secured with a bolt or pin. I stopped at this point to think everything over.
    So do I just put everything back together and hope for the best? The last time I changed the fluid and bottom screen filters was at 100K and everything looked good. I refilled with Dex VI. My plan was to drop the bottom pan and change the fluid/screens after I replaced the TCC solenoid so I will see how dirty the bottom is. Back to my big problem. Is it possible that the bottom filters and magnets catch most of the debris and that the side filter is just a backup/good luck filter. I can't believe that the side filter can clog up much if it is not serviceable.
    Well, I am just reaching for anything that I can. I can't afford to pay someone the drop the tranny now, which is why I did my own solenoid R&R in the first place. I am so disappointed how this has turned out. I will finish putting everything back together tomorrow. Up until now, the tranny has been flawless with beautiful shifts. So now I don't know how long the tranny will last with out the side filter installed. I don't think lowering the sub-frame myself is really an option. Any comments or ideas would really be appreciated.
    Thanks again to everyone for your help.

  8. #68
    sunsetcoast is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Any update?

  9. #69
    charleswrivers is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    On a similar vein, I had posted in another section of the forums but I've been rather successful thus far... I see the solenoid, I have enough clearance to pull the old on since the new one can just slip in the gap... I have electrical connector disconnected but... I cannot find the clip. I don't see it around the solenoid like in the exploded diagram earlier in this thread. I don't see it *anywhere*. The solenoid is securely fastened... somehow in there. I haven't seen it anywhere looking w/my inspection mirror. Any help would be most appreciated. I just want to slap the new one in, put her back together and put all this (fun) behind me. I've done the shocks, struts and a coil cassette on the car and this has been harder and more time consuming then all of them combined.

  10. #70
    speelerr is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Hello. I spent a lot of time looking for the clip. Turns out that you just cannot see it. I was never able to put my mirror in a position to see it. I started to pull on the solenoid like crazy and luckily I didn't break anything. This is not a job to do if you are frustrated or tired. I finally found one picture on the internet that showed a side view of a 4T80E tranny with the cover off. In the picture, the clip is partially covered by the electrical wires. The exploded diagrams are ok, but can't replace a real picture. Turns out the clip is about 1/4" forward (towards the front of the car) of where I thought is was going to be. So it's in a perfect spot where I just could not see it. There is also a bolt right above the clip that obstructs the view. Now that I had a picture to look at, I was able to use my finger to find the clip. Once again, I was never able to see the clip when it was installed. The only time I was able to feel the clip was if I put my finger next to the electrical connector of the solenoid and then rub my finger towards the front of the car. It feels just like the curved end of a paper clip. It will also feel loose so you can swing it up or down a little bit, but it will not spin around or fall off so you don't have to worry about that. Then you remove the clip using something like a dentist's pick or small hook type tool. You might have to decided what works for you. Once again, finding the clip took me a long time and then I remember that removing it was easy. It most likely will fall to the bottom of the side cover. Do not panic like I did and do not start banging on the cover. This is how I knocked the main filter loose (that's another story). The good news is that I must have dropped the clip like 10 times trying to install it and it always fell all the way to the bottom of the cover (never got hung up inside the tranny). Since the cover is aluminum, maybe you can use a magnet to slide the steel clip to the opening of the bottom of the cover. I think it's just the coating of tranny oil that is sticky and not letting the clip fall out on it's own. But banging the cover is NOT the thing to do. Back to the solenoid, now that the clip is removed the solenoid will slide out towards the firewall. Slide in the new solenoid until it feels firmly in place, but make sure not to push on the electrical connector sticking out of the solenoid.

    Here's a tip that I came up with: At some point while I was looking for the clip and I was desperate to gain some extra working room, I decided to file down part of the side cover. I noticed the side cover has 3 or 4 fins that run up and down the side. These fins hit the body frame when you open the cover. So I grabbed a long flat course hand file and started filing. I did put two bolts back in the side cover and snugged it back up to make sure that I didn't get any metal filings into the tranny. Clean things up before opening the cover again. If I recall correctly I only filed the fin furthest back to the firewall and then the next one in front of that one. You don't have to file the whole fin down. I kept a jack under the engine (with the left engine mount removed) so I lowered the engine as much as possible. You'll notice that a small part of the two back fins are really the limiting factor. I think I was able to gain another 1/4" of room to work which felt like a mile.

    Now it's time to install the clip. You have to decide for yourself, but I had to start fresh the next day to be good and calm. You will not be able to see anything and at best you can only have one finger on the clip, so being frustrated is not going to cut it. This is coming from someone who hates to stop a job in the middle. Anyway, sounds like everyone had a slightly different way of holding the clip and getting into position for installation. What worked for me was using a tie-wrap for a garbage bag. This is a strip of thin plastic with a wire running down the center. The trick is getting a good hold of the clip but then being able to let it go after it's installed. It took me many attempts simply by trial and error. I really can't begin trying to explain how to it. You are basically trying to feel that you got the open end of the clip started in the slot, then you press it in with your finger or a tool. I can't remember what I used to push it in, but I don't believe it was my finger. I just couldn't get enough force on it with my finger. Remember that you can try to practice outside of the car using the old solenoid and see what method is working for you. Once you get the clip in, remember to connect the electrical connector (you might be so excited that you forget).

    Good luck to you.

    Clip Location.jpg
    tyallred and GWhiz14 like this.

  11. #71
    charleswrivers is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    I did quit for the night. The picture is awesome and should give me the push I need to get this job done this weekend. Thank you so much! It isn't what I had expected from the diagrams I'd seen earlier at all... But still in a logical spot. I felt the bolt and saw it with the mirror, but missed the pin.

  12. #72
    pjc0715 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Update for me, I wasn't able to get the broken piece out. I put everything back together and drove it back home the next day, it got home without a problem. It's been sitting ever since, until today. I got a new retainer clip from the Caddy dealership and cracked it open again today. I was hoping pressure would push the broken piece out, and it may have partially, but something is still in there and so far I've been unable to get it out. It was getting late so decided to start fresh tomorrow. Here's another picture I found that I hope will help others (and me when I go to put the clip back in).

    P1070890.jpg
    Dante, tyallred and GWhiz14 like this.

  13. #73
    pjc0715 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Finally fixed the bastard. I couldn't get the wire trick to work but finally was able to get the clip in place with two index fingers on either side. Everything seems to be running right and no codes on the dash.

  14. #74
    Scarabeo500GT is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Deleted post to just move on to the update...

    Update: I think I got the clip in using another new method. Once I put my car back together I can test everything and see how it turned out! Stay tuned...

    Update 2: The TCC Solenoid is Fixed, Check Engine light is off and the Seville has now passed smog! The Repair took me a good week and was Very hard with the limited tools I had but it can be Done and YES that Clip was a bear and it took almost all the skin off my Fingers to get it back in but in the end it was worth it. Money saved on another repair thanks to you guys so THANKS a Million! Now off to try the 2" pipe cap deal to plug the hole in the Air intake line so I have a way to check Tranny fluid without that box in the way, then on to the brake job...

  15. #75
    charleswrivers is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Malfunction Indicator Light with P0741 and P1860

    Ugh... 3 or 4 months of trouble free operation... then... BAM... 1860. You have *got* to be kidding me.

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