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Cadillac STS-V Series Forum Discussion, Test Drive Impressions in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Ray, I for one appreciate you motives here, and sincerely apologize for some of the comments you've received as a ...
  1. #16
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Ray,
    I for one appreciate you motives here, and sincerely apologize for some of the comments you've received as a result. I think you've learned a valuable lesson here. A good number of our members don't like hearing anything negative about Cadillac.
    I too, share your common sense approach to qualifying cars for my possible ownership. Why some guys feel that they must own something that accels primarily in an environment other than that which it will be operated in on a daily basis is beyond me. Just because a car generates particularly good data when driven by professionals on a specific track somewhere, does not in anyway make me gravitate towards it and certainly does not constitute the main reason why I would buy it (unless of course I was looking for a race car).

  2. #17
    harryctsv is offline Banned
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by rayainsw
    First, I in no way mean to disrespect the V. And I certainly did not mean to suggest that my impressions ought to cause any one else to cross the V off THEIR list.

    Here is why I posted:

    Although there have been several ‘professional’ reviews now published, I had not yet seen impressions from a ‘civilian’.

    I took the test drive (I had not initially intended to even ask to drive the V) largely because the current limited supply, and initial allotment in some areas apparently being sold might limit test drive access – for a while. Thus my attempt to offer some insight from a potential buyer’s perspective. My only goal was to try to provide readers here with another point of view – typically at least slightly different from those who test drive for a living.

    I did not mean, by listing cars owned and test driven to ‘qualify’ myself in any way.

    One reason I did accept the test drive offered is that I had hopes that I’d be ‘blown away’ by the V. Again, with a background & experience largely with sedans in the $50k - $60k MSRP range, I had expected to be very impressed with the V’s dynamics. After all, the luxury appointments can be had for a lot less money, with lower performance. And the ‘leap’ from $60K to $77K is significant, at least for most people. And going directly from my GXP (actual transaction price approx. $27K – chosen for several reasons) to a $77K sedan, I truly had very high expectations. As would seem appropriate.

    I do want to see Caddy succeed at this level. As I wanted Lincoln to succeed (and continue to develop the LS – sigh) some years earlier as they tried to compete with BMW in sport sedans.

    Clearly, anyone here is free to disagree with my comments. Particularly those who have driven one.

    In response to a few specific questions:

    1.how much miles on the odometer this STS V shows when you drove it?

    A - This V had 16 miles on it when I drove it off the lot.

    2.as you said, the salesperson was sitting beside you with a cup of coffee, doesn`t that mean you never put the pedal to the metal?

    A – Not at all. I find it quite easy to apply WOT under these circumstances – just not abruptly – and not from a standstill. I hit ‘the metal’ several times in second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth gears. Only once in first. No coffee spilt. I did limit abrupt transitions – particularly in braking and cornering. Yet it is certainly possibly to drive very briskly under these circumstances. Smoothness does not mean slow. I pride myself of being able to drive very quickly without making passengers uncomfortable in any way.

    3.I´m a very fast driver, as you know the german autobahns let you do this but I never beat the hell out of a brand new car - so you really cannot talk about a test-drive with this STS V.

    A - I also “never beat the hell out of a brand new car”. This means that “I cannot talk about a test-drive”? OK. If you say so. Sorry to have wasted your time . . .

    4.In June Cadillac-Europe will have their first cars here and these cars, before they give it for a test drive have about 1-2K kilomters on (600-1200 miles) I´ll get one for 3 days and I let you know what I think about it.

    A – I certainly look forward to reading your impressions, in a few months.

    RE: No Magnasteer. Thanks for the correction. If there is an STS-V brochure, my dealer had none.

    “The Jag rides better because it has nowhere near the track prowess.”

    A – I have no intention of driving a car such as the STS-V or the Jag on a track. I am thus only concerned about what it can do under real world conditions – and particularly how it ‘feels’ while performing at well below absolute cornering limits. From a Car and Driver test of the S-Type R: “ . . handling remains in a league with the M5 and Mercedes E55 AMG, but the ride is considerably more plush.”


    I would use all of the acceleration available every day I drove it. Since I can do that, at least for some duration, with most anything short of a Corvette Z06. Safely, legally, and without annoying other citizens too much. I do not exceed 7 or 8 tenths of absolute cornering capability, for instance, in my street driving. Leaving room for the unexpected. But acceleration – there I feel that I can use all – and much more often.

    “Maybe if he had owned an E55, M5, or RS6 I'd be impressed.”

    A - Part of my point here was actually that since I have not owned a directly competing sedan, my expectations were that I’d be extremely impressed. If I drove one of the direct competitors daily, I would likely have been even less impressed than I was. But I think Caddy is looking for potential buyers among those that currently own sedans that one could classify as ‘one rung down’ from the V. Those with an STS V8 (1SF or 1SG) class sedan, for instance, or one of the many competitors in that class, now looking to step up. And again, I in no way mean my car ownership & test driving experiences to ‘impress’ – only to provide background and context.

    (sigh)
    - Ray
    Just trying to provide another viewpoint on a car that may (for a while) be hard to find for a test drive in some locations . .
    Very fair comment on this Ray
    Thank you
    Harry

  3. #18
    silver12r is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    If you're driving a Pontiac GXP, who in the world gave you the keys to an STS-V??? Was it Joyride Chevrolet?

  4. #19
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by silver12r
    If you're driving a Pontiac GXP, who in the world gave you the keys to an STS-V??? Was it Joyride Chevrolet?
    Jeez I hope you're trying to be funny. If not that's a pretty stupid statement.

  5. #20
    rayainsw is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by silver12r
    If you're driving a Pontiac GXP, who in the world gave you the keys to an STS-V??? Was it Joyride Chevrolet?
    The answer is: They know me.
    - Ray
    Driving "within my means" - right now . .

  6. #21
    silver12r is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by rayainsw
    The answer is: They know me.
    - Ray
    Driving "within my means" - right now . .
    That's fine Ray, what I'm saying is unless you're writing a review for Motor Trend or seriously considering buying one, you sholdn't be out test flogging somebody else's 80K car.

    Seriously, if I knew which dealership it was I'd make damn sure I avoided them like the plague.

  7. #22
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by rayainsw
    And again, I in no way mean my car ownership & test driving experiences to ‘impress’ – only to provide background and context.

    (sigh)
    - Ray
    Just trying to provide another viewpoint on a car that may (for a while) be hard to find for a test drive in some locations . .
    My comments were never really towards you. It was toward SRT8/BMW for saying that he wasn't going to even bother test driving the STS-V based on your review. Which to me would be totally assinine (sp?).

    I would love for you to show me how you can apply WOT on an automatic without it kicking down a couple of gears. Either Caddy made the tranny soft and is killing the power, or you never got the pedal all the way to the floor. No matter what gear you were in, if you were driving anywhere close to legal speeds, a 400+hp car should kick down pretty hard.

    Eric
    ps.- I'm not some Caddy blowhard. My CTS-V is my first Caddy and probably my last.

  8. #23
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    Thumbs up Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil_concours
    did you trade in your v?
    Hey what's up Devil,

    I actually got out of the V towards the end of October, and the XLR has been running strong ever since.

  9. #24
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by erp2863
    My comments were never really towards you. It was toward SRT8/BMW for saying that he wasn't going to even bother test driving the STS-V based on your review. Which to me would be totally assinine (sp?).

    I would love for you to show me how you can apply WOT on an automatic without it kicking down a couple of gears. Either Caddy made the tranny soft and is killing the power, or you never got the pedal all the way to the floor. No matter what gear you were in, if you were driving anywhere close to legal speeds, a 400+hp car should kick down pretty hard.


    Eric
    ps.- I'm not some Caddy blowhard. My CTS-V is my first Caddy and probably my last.

    Yes, and you changed my mind. I am serious about this car, and am going to drive one....it was ..assinine (sp)?

  10. #25
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by silver12r
    That's fine Ray, what I'm saying is unless you're writing a review for Motor Trend or seriously considering buying one, you sholdn't be out test flogging somebody else's 80K car.

    Seriously, if I knew which dealership it was I'd make damn sure I avoided them like the plague.
    You need to get out more. Dealerships want to sell cars and for as long as I've been in and around the industry, dealerships have let prospective customers test-drive their cars. In some rare instances, certain cars DO command such restrictive practices by the dealer as having to have a signed sales agreement with the customer prior to giving them a test drive but I doubt there's many (if any) Cadillacs that rate that kind of thing. Personally, I wouldn't even think of buying a car without being able to test drive it first.

  11. #26
    chevelle is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by rayainsw

    2.as you said, the salesperson was sitting beside you with a cup of coffee, doesn`t that mean you never put the pedal to the metal?

    A – Not at all. I find it quite easy to apply WOT under these circumstances – just not abruptly – and not from a standstill. I hit ‘the metal’ several times in second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth gears. Only once in first. No coffee spilt. I did limit abrupt transitions – particularly in braking and cornering. Yet it is certainly possibly to drive very briskly under these circumstances. Smoothness does not mean slow. I pride myself of being able to drive very quickly without making passengers uncomfortable in any way.

    3.I´m a very fast driver, as you know the german autobahns let you do this but I never beat the hell out of a brand new car - so you really cannot talk about a test-drive with this STS V.

    .

    I , too, understand where you are coming from with your "review" I just find it hard to understand your comments around lack of acceleration feel. At the speeds you are describing "putting it to the metal" in 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 is pretty pointless. I wouldn't expect much acceleration when the engine is running at 2000 RPM in 6..... As for not spilling the coffee....in my experience, driving an STS-V, it is pretty near impossible to get the "pedal ALL THE WAY to the metal" in 2 or 3 gear at speeds below 80 and "accelerate smoothly". The car is going to accelerate hard no matter how smooth you put the pedal down.

    The STS-V is capable of easily running mid-13's in any weather at the drag strip. There is no way the car can be that quick and not accelerate hard.

    As far as autobahn performance, the car has shown to be QUITE capable during autobahn testing....quite capable.

    The most notable reponse I have gotten from rider after rider in the STS-V is that they just cannot believe how hard the car pulls from 80 to 150 MPH. Normally, one expects the accleration feel to fall off significantly as the speed builds and the trans shifts each time. The STS-V has an almost uncanny acceleration feel to it. Each time the trans shifts it seems to pull has hard as it did in the last gear. 80 to 150 is easily possible in long gaps in traffic on deserted interstate sections. The car is still pulling hard at the 155 limiter. You can touch 130 on most long freeway entrance ramps. "Not accelerate hard" just does not compute.

    Any one who has driven other cars like this and drives the STS-V and says it doesn't accelerate hard couldn't have had the pedal to the floor and couldn't have given the car a chance to run. Punching it in 6 at 45 MPH in between city blocks is just not fair....LOL. If you are going to be punching it in 6 and expecting accleration you should be at 150 MPH first. Second is good to about 80 so make sure you are above that if you punch it in 3 if you expect the engine to be in its power band and accelerate.

  12. #27
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Actually, I understand Ray's comment. It's not that the car DOESN'T accelerate hard, it doesn FEEL like it's accelerating hard. I've seen this very thing in many of the newer cars I've driven. They are so smooth and refined that they tend to be very deceptive with regard to speed and acceleration. One of my favorites to illustrate this was a motorcycle I had years ago. It was one of the first Honda V4's and before I took it out for a test ride, the salesman told me to be careful because I would be caught off guard by how smooth it was and end up going faster than I though. Damn if he wasn't right! I was almost unimpressed by the bike's performance until I looked down and realized how fast I was going! I bought that bike that day and for quite a while was caught off guard by this same thing. I've also found this same phenomina in smooth, refined cars. They can be deceptively fast. My guess is that's the case with the STS-V.

  13. #28
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    You need to get out more. Dealerships want to sell cars and for as long as I've been in and around the industry, dealerships have let prospective customers test-drive their cars. In some rare instances, certain cars DO command such restrictive practices by the dealer as having to have a signed sales agreement with the customer prior to giving them a test drive but I doubt there's many (if any) Cadillacs that rate that kind of thing. Personally, I wouldn't even think of buying a car without being able to test drive it first.
    HE WASN'T CONSIDERING BUYING ONE.

    The idea of having every low-rent Tom, Dick and Harry test-beat your exhorbitantly expensive prized posession like a raped ape prior to proper break-in is appalling at best.

    I wouldn't even think of buying a car without being able to test drive it first.
    Yeah, if I was buying an 11-year-old car with a hundred thousand miles on it, I wouldn't buy it without driving it first either.

  14. #29
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by silver12r
    HE WASN'T CONSIDERING BUYING ONE.

    The idea of having every low-rent Tom, Dick and Harry test-beat your exhorbitantly expensive prized posession like a raped ape prior to proper break-in is appalling at best.



    Yeah, if I was buying an 11-year-old car with a hundred thousand miles on it, I wouldn't buy it without driving it first either.
    LOL!!
    Funny stuff! I'm not sure whether to think you're a jerk or just totally ignorant about cars and dealerships.
    First of all, your comment about someone being a "...low-rent Tom, Dick and Harry..." is just plain ignorant and insulting. Secondly, you're showing you have no clue about what goes on at a dealership. Believe me, unless you are well connected, your car has been taken out for a thrashing before you ever step foot in it, especially if it's a high-profile car.
    And as for your comment about taking a test drive prior to buying only IF it's "...an 11-year-old car with a hundred thousand miles on it..." is IMO, just plain STUPID! Why would you buy a car before driving it? I can't tell you how many cars I've been VERY sure I'd like right up until I drove it. If you don't understand the sense in that, you're a fool.

  15. #30
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    Re: Test Drive Impressions

    Heh.... I someone managed to get 2 great cars... both buying them without a test drive, nor even seeing them in person.... the '93 Coupe and my Olds .

    STS-V looks like a nice car... very nice interior, I never liked the cheap looking interior on the CTS.... too bad the STS-V didn't have a manual....

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