the facts between cts-v and sts-v
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Cadillac STS-V Series Forum Discussion, the facts between cts-v and sts-v in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Hi there my name is Rob and get frustrated with all the negative talk that seems to be on here. ...
  1. #1
    GHETTOYUPPIE is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Hi there my name is Rob and get frustrated with all the negative talk that seems to be on here. gm bankrupt, poor quality, no money, poor service, had problems. etc.... Face it these are automobiles we are talking about. Yes Gm has had some issues financially but we all would if we were paying over 1500 per vehicle just to pay there retirees medical expenses. the fact is GM has 3 of the top 10 factories in the world and toyota isnt even on the list. Gms worst enemy is the media that seem to be pro asian. The fact is all vehicels can break down. Even if a vehicle is built to 99% no break down figures that still leaves over 100 parts to break since there are over 10000 moving parts on a vehicles. The space shuttle which is built to much more exacting standards than any mass produced car blew up because of a 10 dollar o ring. What I am getting at is look at all the facts before jumping the gun. Yes things break. yes service is important but that comes down to the individual dealer. Ask for there SSI rating or CSI rating before committing to buy or service your vehicle at that dealership. anyways so much for the rant here is what you get for the extra money on a sts-v and no its not just 69 more horse power.......

    intellibeam- automatic high/low beam control
    LAMINATED front side windows for extra safety and quiet characteristics
    drivers side auto dimming outside mirror
    RainSense wipers automatic wiper system
    POWER recling front seats
    4 WAY lumber front seats
    HEATED rear seats
    HEATED steering wheel
    REAR climate control
    AUDIO AND VOICE RECOGNITION steering wheel controls
    EXPRESS UP FRONT AND BACK windows
    EXPRESS UP can be activated via REMOTE TRANSMITTER
    ULTRASONIC rear parking assist
    REMOTE START
    ADAPTIVE REMOTE START turns climate and rear defrost depending on outside weather condtions
    1 YEAR UPGRADED DIRECTIONS AND CONNECTIONS PLAN ONSTAR
    MP3 CAPABLE
    15 SPEAKER BOSE 5.1 STUDIO SURROUND SOUND WITH DSP TECHNOLOGY
    4 TILT POSITION NAVIGATIONAL SCREEN
    BLACK OLIVE ASH BURL CENTER STACK
    PREMIUM HAND WRAPPED leather components
    PREMIUM LEATHER INTERIOR
    6 DISK DVD SYSTEM
    BLUETOOTH CELL PHONE TECHNOLOGY
    HAND BUILT NORTHSTAR SUPERCHARGED ENGINE ($$$$)
    70 MORE HP
    KEYLESS IGNITION WITH PUSH BUTTON START
    6 SPEED AUTOMATIC WITH DOWNGRADE DETECTION, PERFORMANCE ALGORITHM SHIFTING AND SHIFT STABILIZATION
    AUTO LEVEL SUSPENSION
    AUTO LEVEL HEAD LIGHTS
    HI PERFORMANCE SUSPENSION (STANDARD) UNLIKE CTS-V
    ACTIVE STEERING EFFORT COMPENSATION STABILITRAK
    ***VARIABLE RATIO**** SPEED SENSITIVE STEERING
    LARGER 255 TIRES AND 19" RIMS ON REAR
    AUTOMATIC FRONT PASSENGER AIRBAG SUPPRESSION


    As you can see the STS-V is more than just a bigger car with a bigger engine nver the mind that for 20 or 40 bucks you can buy a smaller pulley on that supercharger to give it a little extra jam and I am sure that some computer chipping will push this engine well over 500 horsepower

    did I mention the hi flow cats ? they are standard as well

    This is a fantastic vehicle for the money and yes for 25k cheaper buy the entry level cadillac with the big engine but if you are looking for refinement and a car that will blow the doors off most vehicles tha are a lot more money then like myself the sts-v has my vote hands down

    And yes I owned the cts-v and have already got my sts-v in production status and should have mine in about one month

    cheers

    ghettoyuppie

    rob

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  3. #2
    MCaesar is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    You neglect many facts

    1. GM blew billions of dollars not on pensions or health care but on a speculative stock option on Fiat

    2. GM spent billions buying toys like Saab instead of putting money into product

    3. The sales declines are real and based on years of inferior product

    4. The bond ratings drops are real

    5. Even in the dark days there are always still examples of the fine product GM SHOULD be producing

    6. Gm's quality control problems are real - not just the product of the media. If you don't believe me, click on the CTS-V threads.

  4. #3
    GHETTOYUPPIE is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    There sales are down due to resale values from to many incentives. If GM had value priced there vehicles like they do now they wouldn't have devaluation issues. Take a look at cavalier. 0% interest and 5000 rebates. We are talking a 12000 vehicle. No wonder they have poor resale. Now look at cobalt a great competitor against civic. Better pricing right from the get go. No 0% and great resale. Gm is just very late getting out of the gate. I am not saying that gm did not put out there fair share of crappy vehicles but there new generation of vehicles are seriously close to the same fit, finish and reliability of the imports. You take a look at the new impala, new malibu both have recieved top awards for initial quality, safety and reliability and you take into account extra options and there pricing is lower than it was 6 years ago you have to admit that GM is getting there crap together.

  5. #4
    Bigplay is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    He is right about the dealerships though and GM should hold all Cadillac dealerships 2 higher standards then th rest of GM divisions. I not complaining just feeling the pain of fellow customers who have been shafted by lame dealers. I blessed with both the CTS-V & STS with no problems and Richenbaugh Cadillac here in Denver is one of the best dealers in the country to buy a car and service your car at. So i see the good side of GM the way I should be for everybody. I will buy a STS-V in a couple of years cause it always seems that the later year model cars are better in quality than 1st year models by all the bugs being fixed.

  6. #5
    Rich H's Avatar
    Rich H is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigplay
    He is right about the dealerships though and GM should hold all Cadillac dealerships 2 higher standards then th rest of GM divisions. I not complaining just feeling the pain of fellow customers who have been shafted by lame dealers. I blessed with both the CTS-V & STS with no problems and Richenbaugh Cadillac here in Denver is one of the best dealers in the country to buy a car and service your car at. So i see the good side of GM the way I should be for everybody. I will buy a STS-V in a couple of years cause it always seems that the later year model cars are better in quality than 1st year models by all the bugs being fixed.
    I agree that the dealer has a great deal to do with customer satisfaction although I didn't purchase from Rickenbaugh since they weren't willing to deal on my CTSV and another dealer in Denver was.

    However, getting back to the point of this thread - comparing the CTS and STS Vs. I think you'll agree, particularly since you own both, that they appeal to a completely different audience. The CTS V is a hot rod. Less refined with hard edged handling characteristics, and that's why I bought it. I don't think I would be happy with a STS (V or otherwise) that emphasizes luxury as much as performance. And I know that I would never be able to tolerate an auto transmission. My left foot and right hand need to be occupied shifting gears. IMO the only thing the CTSV and STSV have in common is they are both sedans - but they quickly diverge from there.

    GM apparently felt they needed to make a performance version of the STS and now this car will have to compete with the next generation super luxury cars such as the 2006 M5. Remember that when the CTSV first came out in 04 that (favorable) comparsions were being made to the older M5, which I've driven and appreciate. The new M5 has carried BMW to a new frontier and I would be driving one if I could afford it.

    The important thing to remember is that you are judged by how you line up with your competitors. And I think that GM may have bitten off too much in their quest to carve out a share of the luxury performance sedan category.

  7. #6
    CIWS's Avatar
    CIWS is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Quote Originally Posted by GHETTOYUPPIE
    And yes I owned the cts-v and have already got my sts-v in production status and should have mine in about one month

    cheers

    ghettoyuppie

    rob

    Congrats man, if I had the extra cash, I'd give the STS-V a serious look, not because the of the added SuperCh and HP, but the other extras of the car as well. Maybe in a few years, we'll see. I'll be interested to hear your personal impressions of the car once you have it in hand, in any case Congrats once again.

  8. #7
    MCaesar is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    I don't think GM bit off more than they can chew. The problem is not ability but marketing managers who run the car company instead of product guys.

    I bet it was a marketing guy who decreed that the STS-V must have a Northstar engine - one of the weakest in the V8 stable. Add a N/A LS7 or a blown LS2 and you have BMW beating power in a much more comfortable package.

    Both the M5 and E55 have flaws. The M5 shifts like a 70 Nova with a shift kit when left in full automatic. The E55 thinks electronics should run the show.

    The opening is there - Cadillac has to see it.

  9. #8
    Rich H's Avatar
    Rich H is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Every car has a flaw- there is no such thing as perfect. The M5 will be available with a manual tranny in the US in the future to eliminate the issues with the SMG shifter. I wouldn't buy a car with a SMG. I drove the M3 with a SMG and it was like being in a detached state. You could control the shift speed but there was still no driver interaction with the clutch which is necessary to allow slippage under the right conditions. This is exactly how I control wheel hop on my V on a dead start.

    I'm not here to dispute GM's marketing tactics. However, when you compete with the likes of BMW there is no room for miscalculation. And that appears to be exactly what happened when they introduced the STSV at the time they did to compete with the new M5. Timing is everything particularly when your product does not have a marked advantage over the competiton. However, GM has made there move and it will be difficult to counter the M5 unless they clone the Z06 engine in a Caddy.

  10. #9
    Bigplay is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich H
    I agree that the dealer has a great deal to do with customer satisfaction although I didn't purchase from Rickenbaugh since they weren't willing to deal on my CTSV and another dealer in Denver was.

    However, getting back to the point of this thread - comparing the CTS and STS Vs. I think you'll agree, particularly since you own both, that they appeal to a completely different audience. The CTS V is a hot rod. Less refined with hard edged handling characteristics, and that's why I bought it. I don't think I would be happy with a STS (V or otherwise) that emphasizes luxury as much as performance. And I know that I would never be able to tolerate an auto transmission. My left foot and right hand need to be occupied shifting gears. IMO the only thing the CTSV and STSV have in common is they are both sedans - but they quickly diverge from there.

    GM apparently felt they needed to make a performance version of the STS and now this car will have to compete with the next generation super luxury cars such as the 2006 M5. Remember that when the CTSV first came out in 04 that (favorable) comparsions were being made to the older M5, which I've driven and appreciate. The new M5 has carried BMW to a new frontier and I would be driving one if I could afford it.

    The important thing to remember is that you are judged by how you line up with your competitors. And I think that GM may have bitten off too much in their quest to carve out a share of the luxury performance sedan category.
    Richenbaugh did deal with me on the CTS-V. Probably cause it was my 4th car I bought from them. Also you are right both cars are different and I love them both for that.

  11. #10
    MCaesar is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich H
    Every car has a flaw- there is no such thing as perfect. The M5 will be available with a manual tranny in the US in the future to eliminate the issues with the SMG shifter. I wouldn't buy a car with a SMG. I drove the M3 with a SMG and it was like being in a detached state. You could control the shift speed but there was still no driver interaction with the clutch which is necessary to allow slippage under the right conditions. This is exactly how I control wheel hop on my V on a dead start.

    I'm not here to dispute GM's marketing tactics. However, when you compete with the likes of BMW there is no room for miscalculation. And that appears to be exactly what happened when they introduced the STSV at the time they did to compete with the new M5. Timing is everything particularly when your product does not have a marked advantage over the competiton. However, GM has made there move and it will be difficult to counter the M5 unless they clone the Z06 engine in a Caddy.
    BINGO!

    That or put a blown LS2 in there

    once the M5 gets a true 6 speed it will smash everyone unless drastic measures are taken

    MB has the new 6.3 engine but they could also add a blower to it

  12. #11
    Devil_concours is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Quote Originally Posted by MCaesar
    BINGO!

    That or put a blown LS2 in there

    once the M5 gets a true 6 speed it will smash everyone unless drastic measures are taken

    MB has the new 6.3 engine but they could also add a blower to it
    more engine and exotic materials on the body to be lighter.
    Performance version of any car should equal or be lighter than their standard counterparts.
    I'm not sure if the m5 w/6spd will be faster than their 7spd SMG. 7 spd allows for better gearing and smg shifts faster than any human can in a manual gear box.
    As for sts being so much bigger than cts. You should go drive one, even if the measurement suggest that it's a bigger car, it feels more cramped to drive the sts4 than my cts (it seems like center console area is much wider reducing the width of the leg room. I'm also 6'2" so i need some leg room to be comfortable)

  13. #12
    GHETTOYUPPIE is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    I think we keep swaying off topic and maybe we should have a seperate thread for this issue. A little about myself. I have managed GM dealerships for over 15 years and there are a few key issues that GM has to start thinking about. One is interactive participation with dealers. GM gets these great ideas (quadrasteer) without asking the dealers input. Rushing into new programs (cts-v) (ssr) without even thinking about simple ergonomics like cup holders. GM changes there minds about programs even before the dealer can get there advertising in order. No communication between the dealer for example the public knew about the new diesel (LLY) in 2004 before the dealer did. I understand trying to keep up with the jones' on rates and programs but you cant bounce around to the point where even the dealer gets confused. GM does need to be more pro-active instead of following and that has been where GM has dropped the ball. IF you look at value for the dollar though GM is way ahead of the game in innovation as far as safety and accident avoidance systems. Unfortunatley the dealer most times has a hard time selling the client on safety over the wow factor of appeal. Again if you look at fit, finish interiors gm has finally in 2006 started to see the light on styling cues but they seem to always be a wee bit late out of the starting gate. GM has to start getting more input from the dealers, and customers to not just push but rocket out of the starting gate. GM has to start weeding out the poor dealers and spend more money on dealer and staff training. GM brings new computer programs out without giving the dealer much help to utilize these tools to the maximum for the client. I recieve more paper and emails from GM then any other manufacturer I have ever worked for. Simplicity is key and innovation is crucial. We are there for safety now we have to give the client what he wants. The sts-V for the money is a great bang for the buck and if I unfortunatley push this vehicle to far I know with confidence I will probably walk away from it to tell my tale on this site. To me that is just as important as the fun in driving the vehicle is the safety behind it. ON-star, stabilitrak, algorthmic shifting, roll over sensors, accident sensors, air bags , side airbags, yaw sensors, antilock, traction control, seatbelt pre-tensioners, crumple zones, colapsable steering wheels are all just as important. way to go GM on safety now lets work on communication and innovation on styling


    ghettoyuppie

  14. #13
    Ghost-V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    <edit>

  15. #14
    Ghost-V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    Whatup GHETTOYUPPIE!

    As a CTS-V owner, I cannot argue with you on the majority of your STS-V vs. CTS-V points, however, don't sell the entry level V too short:
    • Power reclining front seats - check
    • Auto level suspension (rear) - check
    • Automatic front passenger airbag suppression - check
    • Hi-performance suspension standard - check (as opposed to standard CTS suspension)
    As you can see the STS-V is more than just a bigger car with a bigger engine
    Bigger car, yes; bigger engine, sorry!

    Anyway, best of luck with your STS-V!

  16. #15
    GHETTOYUPPIE is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: the facts between cts-v and sts-v

    true. Hey I did love my cts-v. I did miss those points. I was on a little bit of a tangent. Thanks ghost-v for keeping me honest. they are different cars. either a gazelle or a lion.

    There is the old addage "no replacement for displacement"
    but there is also the new one " you've never had sex unless you've been blown"

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