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Cadillac STS-V Series Forum Discussion, v10 in the sts-v in the future? in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Originally Posted by Afreet1 As for the majority of luxury car buyers, we can't know that unless we do a ...
  1. #16
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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Afreet1
    As for the majority of luxury car buyers, we can't know that unless we do a fresh survey can we?
    We can know that because that's the way it is. That's why in 1993 Cadillac went with the northstar instead of any pushrod to power all of its cars except Fleetwood. If Cadillac put a 90* V10 in a production STS-V, the magazines and everyone else would say it idles rough and isn't refined enough for a luxury car.

    I guess I figured if people liked the V10 idea because of the power they'd like the XV12 idea even more because it's even more power, and if people didn't like the V10 idea because it's a pushrod they'd like the XV12 idea because it's DOHC.

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by ktills45
    The CTS -V already compares favorably with the V10 M5. With an extra 40hp, and less weight, the XLR-V should be a screamer. The STS-V should be in the same league as the M5.

    The M5 has a real high redline, but it needs all of it to make 350lb/ft of torque. The N* will be making that on idle.
    I would love to see an STS-V attempt to take a 2006 M5... oh my that would be quite entertaining... :disappoin

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    Afreet1, if that's the case you don't represent many premium buyers. But wouldn't an XV12 northstar get you in the dealership even faster?

    Devil_Concours, the STS-V's competition is M5 at 500hp and E55 at 469hp. A DTS-V or even ULS-V if made today would be the one to deal with S65 AMG at 604hp. The XV12 in the Cien made 750hp, so I think an XV12 could top the S65 AMG. If we still have a problem, make a S/C XV12, if we still have a problem make a Sixteen, if we still have a problem supercharge the Sixteen.
    At which point it would be so heavy, expensive, and unreliable an SLR Mclaren would probably equal it in performance and be substantially cheaper.

    But then sigh... there is the Bugatti Veyron.

    I do tend to agree that Cadillac needs its own exclusive engines, but engine sharing even among the premium brands is becoming more common these days. Audi's premium A8 W12 shares an engine with the W12 Phaeton, and the corporate 4.2 from Audi is found in everything from the Touareg to a heavily modified version in an ultra exclusive Spyker.

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    I would love to see an STS-V attempt to take a 2006 M5... oh my that would be quite entertaining... :disappoin

    I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

    http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m5.asp

    http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/cadillac_sts-v.asp

    Then again, I never am.

    The CTS-V compares favorably in performance numbers to the M5, as posted from a German evaluation somewhere on this forum by Goth.

    With an extra 40hp, and 200lbs more weight, I would think that the STS-V will compare very favorably with the performance numbers of the newest M5

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me[b
    ]At which point it would be so heavy, expensive, and unreliable an SLR Mclaren would probably equal it in performance and be substantially cheaper.[/b]

    But then sigh... there is the Bugatti Veyron.

    I do tend to agree that Cadillac needs its own exclusive engines, but engine sharing even among the premium brands is becoming more common these days. Audi's premium A8 W12 shares an engine with the W12 Phaeton, and the corporate 4.2 from Audi is found in everything from the Touareg to a heavily modified version in an ultra exclusive Spyker.
    And I assume you're referring to the unreliability of the Cadillac engine line in general with this comment, correct?

  6. #21
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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by ktills45
    I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

    http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m5.asp

    http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/cadillac_sts-v.asp

    Then again, I never am.

    The CTS-V compares favorably in performance numbers to the M5, as posted from a German evaluation somewhere on this forum by Goth.

    With an extra 40hp, and 200lbs more weight, I would think that the STS-V will compare very favorably with the performance numbers of the newest M5
    It may compare favorably on paper, but in a real world application I just dont see the STS-V taking an M5. Perhaps from a start, but at the high end the M5 would probably pull away from the STS. This has already been shown to be the case with the E55, and the E has 29 more horses than the STS and a monstrous amount of torque (and its the better car out of the three anyway). This should mitigate any minor differences between those two cars and the fact of the matter is the M5 still pulls like a freight train once it gets going. I dont think the STS is a bad car, I just think that its a little early to declare victory at this point. Ill wait til R&T, CD or MT do some sort of comparison here before I make a firm judgment. As I said, it would be entertaining to watch to say the least.

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by ktills45
    And I assume you're referring to the unreliability of the Cadillac engine line in general with this comment, correct?
    You can infer from it what you wish, It was mostly just sarcasm. I dont think Id want a SUPERCHARGED 16 Cylinder engine made by ANYONE. 16 Cylinders naturally aspirated would be tricky enough.

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Playdrv4me
    At which point it would be so heavy, expensive, and unreliable an SLR Mclaren would probably equal it in performance and be substantially cheaper.

    But then sigh... there is the Bugatti Veyron.

    The SLR Mclaren is $450k and makes 626hp/576tq at 3900 pounds, that wouldn't be too hard to beat with an XV12 XLR. The Sixteen naturally aspirated only gives one hp to the Veryon. Stick a S/C 16 in anything smaller than a dump truck and it would hand the Veryon its ass. There's no way the 16 is going into production unless they go all out and make a ULS-V though.

    A S/C V16 in a ULS-V would definately put Cadillac back up to being the standard of the world.

  9. #24
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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    The SLR Mclaren is $450k and makes 626hp/576tq at 3900 pounds, that wouldn't be too hard to beat with an XV12 XLR. The Sixteen naturally aspirated only gives one hp to the Veryon. Stick a S/C 16 in anything smaller than a dump truck and it would hand the Veryon its ass. There's no way the 16 is going into production unless they go all out and make a ULS-V though.

    A S/C V16 in a ULS-V would definately put Cadillac back up to being the standard of the world.
    I agree, but the Veyron IS a 16 Cylinder car making 1001hp in naturally aspirated form. Its NOWHERE NEAR as luxurious or good looking at the Sixteen concept and its ALREADY 1M. I fully believe that if the Sixteen were to become a reality, pricing of mid to upper six figures would not be out of the question, maybe even eclipsing that of the Veyron. For this reason I just dont see it ever happening.

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    I don't see it happening either. And for the record, FOUR turbos is about as far from naturally aspirated as you can get.

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    hey guys, didn't you forget a little thing? by all the pretty hp you get from an engine, you even need to bring the power on the road! to put a 2 ton heavy car from 0-60 under 5 secs you will need AWD! but AWD is very hard to handle at high speeds, that's why all those cars (M5, E55, STS-V...) come only with RWD, so the deal isn't done by the engine, it's done by weight!

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    I don't see it happening either. And for the record, FOUR turbos is about as far from naturally aspirated as you can get.
    Well in that case all bets are off!

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    Smile Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Ok so let's sum up what we have so far:

    1) More power is good
    2) V10 is desirable over the 4.4L SC Northstar
    3) Some like LSX motors others like N*
    4) CTS-V owners have pride in corvette motors in their chassis
    5) Some see Corvette motors as old tech with no place in a Cadillac
    6) Some like big exhaust notes, others like it "effortless"
    7) Caddy has the SAE caddy with a supercharged LS2
    8) Caddy has just developed the SC 4.4L N*
    9) M Series has NA motors
    10) MB AMG are FI motors
    11) People want Caddy to dominate the market and not be just "Good enough" (see critique on 4.4L SC Northstar)
    12) Some people view the Northstar as unreliable
    13) Some like the Experimental V12 in the Cien concept (which also had a sequential gearbox)

    So if we synthesize all of these together I think we are left with a 10 cylinder Northstar with a displacement of approximately 6.6L (average hp/liter of the LS2 and XV12) that uses dual overhead cams (DOHC) and 40 valves. Everyone seems to be pretty indifferent between the naturally aspirated and forced induction (although I suspect that NA is preferred).


    This engine would need to be very strong and upgradeable to satisfy the speed fans but have sufficient power to avoid the exhaust note of a Z06. (massive power means less “wide open throttle” to reach desired speed).

    The remaining issues that haven't been addressed is the desired weight of the engine, the additional cost and if it will fit in the sigma / XLR bodies.



    Do we agree here?

  14. #29
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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Well... the problem with a 90* V10 is balance issues or so I've heard. A 72* V10 solves these problems, but a DOHC 72* V10 would be way too tall. So I'd still want the 7.5L XV12.

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    Re: v10 in the sts-v in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    The SLR Mclaren is $450k and makes 626hp/576tq at 3900 pounds, that wouldn't be too hard to beat with an XV12 XLR. The Sixteen naturally aspirated only gives one hp to the Veryon. Stick a S/C 16 in anything smaller than a dump truck and it would hand the Veryon its ass. There's no way the 16 is going into production unless they go all out and make a ULS-V though.

    A S/C V16 in a ULS-V would definately put Cadillac back up to being the standard of the world.
    Whats the ULS-V concept? Anyone have a picture to post?

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