Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V
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Cadillac STS-V Series Forum Discussion, Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V in Cadillac V-Series Forums; With the announcement of the Camaro Z/28 it brought up a question I have been pondering for some time. Why ...
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    tah93's Avatar
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    Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    With the announcement of the Camaro Z/28 it brought up a question I have been pondering for some time.

    Why did Cadillac / GM decide to develop a custom hand built Supercharged N* instead of using the the small block 427 LS-7 they were developing for the Z06?
    They were being developed at the same time.
    They were both ready for production for the 2006 model year.
    They were both hand built at Wixom.
    The LS-7 is physically smaller than the LC3 so it should fit in the engine bay of both Vs.

    Sharing the engine between vehicles should have reduced development and manufacturing costs and reduced the price of the Vs. Making them more powerful and less expensive options to people cross shopping with the AMGs and Ms
    Do you think the XLR-V and STS-V would have sold better if they had the LS-7 under the hood?

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    PGA2B's Avatar
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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    Because the 4.4L is a true Northstar. They wanted an ALL Cadillac product and the LS based motors are GM.

    Look up Cadillac SAE 100 and you'll see what the STS-V SHOULD have been!!

    Here is the engine that we should of had.


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    PNBLWZD is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    Wow I've never seen that before, now I really feel like we got jipped! As so many others have said, if the LS motor could go in a CTS-V, a blown version should have gone in the STS-V being a heavier car. The SAE100 even has what appears to be a version of the que system instead of a regular spedo/tach cluster, not to mention crazy looking headlight assemblies that were probably loaded with LED's and a rear bumper exhaust tip arrangement that looks like something off a Mercedes S class. Oh the way things could have been. *sigh*

    Edit

    Wow I just looked again and saw even more cool stuff that car has. Heated and cooled cupholders, back seat camera, a steerable backup camera, some sort of lage finned assembly underneath the rear of the car, and electric exhaust cutouts! Oh the humanity! Why GM Why?!

    http://www.netcarshow.com/cadillac/2005-sts_sae_100/

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    tah93's Avatar
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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    I wish we had a lot of things from the SAE-100
    Backup camera, adaptive cruise, OLED display, maybe even the headlights & foglights
    and last but not least the carbon fiber magnesium 2 piece wheels.

    In hindsight it seems counterproductive to create 2 low volume handbuilt engines at the same time.
    They were okay with putting the LS6/2 in the 1st gen CTS-V

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    Quote Originally Posted by tah93 View Post
    In hindsight it seems counterproductive to create 2 low volume handbuilt engines at the same time.
    Which is just one reason why GM had the problems they did.

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    Can you even imagine what those wheels would cost!!!
    I'm happy with the LC3 dispite the lack of aftermarket parts and tuning market, there's enough out there to get what you need. From what I've read, it's still a strong engine.

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    I was under the impression that it would be followed up with the ultra v8. The stsv was intended to be the flagship. Think that all changed when gm went bankrupt and the cts v was such a hit. The sts was a disappoint in terms of sales performance. If you look back to 2003 2005 forums the expectation was the the stsv would have and exclusive engine.

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    It's really interesting to me that myself and many here wonder what GM was thinking when they used a Northstar instead of an LS in the STS-V. Then I go to other sections of this same site and see so many others in disbelief over how GM could have discontinued the Northstar and replaced it with "ancient" LS motors.

    If you ask me, the V's should have all been switched over to LS motors as soon as was possible. Probably would have enabled GM to sell the cars a bit cheaper too. But there are ALOT of people out there who would call me insane for suggesting that an LS motor should be anywhere near a Cadillac.

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    carter's_sts is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Yeah, they had really big hopes for the STS-V. Didn't even come close to panning out.

    I love having a rare car, but I wish they would have done a little better. I think among other things, they priced it way too high new.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigburban View Post
    I was under the impression that it would be followed up with the ultra v8. The stsv was intended to be the flagship. Think that all changed when gm went bankrupt and the cts v was such a hit. The sts was a disappoint in terms of sales performance. If you look back to 2003 2005 forums the expectation was the the stsv would have and exclusive engine.

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    The problem was the Northstar had already developed a pretty bad reputation regardless of how great the LC3 is.

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    The bigger problem is that they never advertised it properly. Anyone remember any commercials other than this one?



    I don't even remember seeing it until after I bought my STS-V in 2009 and it was on TV in mid to late 2005.

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    I forgot about that commercial.

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    Now that I've seen it again, I remember it. However, I had forgotten about it completely, even when purchasing my STS-V a couple of weeks ago.

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    Re: Why did GM use the LC3 instead of the LS7 in the STS-V & XLR-V

    ok in case you all didn't go searching around for more info here's what i found

    best site for info and pictures on the STS SAE 100
    http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/to...TS-SAE-100.htm

    ---- Specifications ----

    Price
    --
    Production
    --
    Engine
    6 liter LS2 V8
    Weight
    --
    Aspiration
    supercharger
    Torque
    520 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
    HP
    505 @ 5600 rpm
    HP/Weight
    --
    HP/Liter
    84.2 hp per liter
    1/4 mile
    --
    0-62 mph
    --
    Top Speed
    --
    General Motors revealed the most technologically integrated vehicle ever at today's opening of the 2005 SAE World Congress. The Cadillac STS SAE 100, which pays homage to SAE's 100th anniversary, will serve as a working laboratory that will aid engineers in developing future production vehicles.

    "We have challenged our engineers to take the best of today's vehicle technologies and integrate them with promising future technologies to demonstrate how they will function together in a real-world driving environment," said Jim Queen, GM vice president, Global Engineering and general chairperson of the 2005 SAE World Congress. GM is the host company for this year's World Congress.

    GM worked with 38 suppliers to integrate 50 different technologies into the STS SAE 100, ranging across safety, chassis, powertrain, electrical and comfort and convenience categories. Nineteen have never been in production, 22 are in production somewhere other than the 2005 STS and nine are currently on the production 2005 STS.

    The vehicle, commissioned by Queen and executed by the GM Performance Division Vehicle Development Center, is much more than a "dream team" of technologies: Engineers will use it to document how the various technologies interface with each other and how they can be applied to future production vehicles.

    "Vehicle integration is behind game-changing safety features like electronic stability control, which we are rolling out across our entire fleet," said Queen.

    "Our goal with this vehicle was not simply to see how many different technologies can be incorporated into one vehicle. We want to learn how a variety of relevant current and future technologies can be made to function harmoniously while enhancing the total driving experience."

    STS SAE 100 technologies include (see accompanying sheet for full list of technologies and their suppliers):
    • 3-D navigation system: This prototype system uses actual pictures taken by satellites to provide the driver with a "bird's-eye-view" of the vehicle's surroundings. The images are so detailed that even trees and lampposts are visible. This detail helps the driver to relate the images on the navigation screen to his surroundings.
    • Oil condition sensor: An industry first in new vehicle features, this oil probe can determine and detect the actual level and remaining engine oil life. It can reduce the need for costly engine repairs due to poor oil maintenance as well as prevent unnecessary oil changes.
    • Inside rear-view mirror with embedded organic LED screen: This new device offers clear images from the rear seat (via a rear seat camera) or back-up camera, depending on what gear the vehicle is in. In addition to improving visibility behind the vehicle, it can reduce the distraction associated with tending to rear seat passengers.
    • Electronic limited slip differential: Unlike passive LSD, this technology enhances vehicle traction without brake/engine intervention, as well as provides additional vehicle stability from the differential yaw dampening effect. It also is easier to integrate with electronic stability control systems.
    • Two-piece carbon fiber wheel with magnesium spokes: This two-piece wheel is designed to be the lightest yet strongest wheel in production, which reduces unsprung weight. Reducing unsprung weight improves acceleration, braking efficiency, handling and fuel consumption.
    • Lane departure warning: Using a real-time vision system, it detects road markings and notifies the driver with a visual signal and a vibration (haptic alert) in the seat when a vehicle traveling at more than 35 mph crosses over the markings unintentionally. This technology could be especially promising in curbing drowsy-driving crashes.
    • Side blind zone alert: Radar sensors warn a driver about to change lanes if another vehicle is in the driver's blind spot. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, these crashes damage 830,000 vehicles annually.
    • Capless fuel system: Removing a gas cap can be difficult for arthritic, disabled or elderly people. With this system, the user simply pushes an interior button and an electronically activated ball spins open to allow access to the fuel pipe, and closes when the nozzle is removed. In addition, a capless system means there's no cap to lose and no risk of a loose cap triggering a dashboard warning light.
    • Adaptive cruise control: Rear impacts account for nearly 29 percent of police-reported crashes, and most are due to driver inattention. Adaptive cruise control, already available on some Cadillacs, uses sensors to detect objects in the vehicle's path and slow it accordingly.
    • Reconfigurable color head-up display: This HUD projects digital readouts of key data (speedometer, navigation system turn prompts, tapshift, audio settings and adaptive cruise control status and alerts) onto the windshield in an easy-to-read and intuitive way.
    • Rear seat entertainment system: Who says only the people in the front seat can have fun? This entertainment system consists of two, 6.5-inch headrest-mounted LCD screens, wireless infrared headphones and two Microsoft Xboxes with DVD packages. Players can even "feel" the action with a haptic controller.
    • Rear vision camera: This system provides a wide angle view of the area behind the vehicle for detecting obstacles while backing up. The field of view is projected onto the navigation screen in the instrument panel.
    The STS SAE 100 is powered by a supercharged LS2 engine yielding 505 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 520 lb.-ft. of torque at 3600 rpm. It is mated to GM HydraMatic's newly developed, longitudinal 6L90E six-speed transmission, capable of supporting more powerful engines like the supercharged LS2. The transmission features Driver Shift Control, which gives the driver the ability to shift gears sequentially with a tap up/ tap down mechanism.


    The STS SAE 100 was tested at GM's proving grounds in Milford, Mich. and Mesa, Ariz.
    this info (and the pictures) probably comes from a press release that GM has somewhere in its archives
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    carter's_sts is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Ah, what might have been.

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