Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup
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Cadillac STS-V Series Forum Discussion, Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Hey gang, hope I'm putting this in the right spot. First post here, I'm not a caddy owner, but I ...
  1. #1
    gettinblown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Hey gang, hope I'm putting this in the right spot. First post here, I'm not a caddy owner, but I will soon own the blower setup from an LC3, for installation on my BMW 740i sport

    Attachment 103079

    I got the idea from an old post over on bimmerforums, a couple of west-coast guys with a shop dropped one on their 540 (same engine, smaller chassis):

    Attachment 103080

    So I know it can be done, but they seem to have disappeared, while my desire has only grown

    I wanted to ask y'all some questions while spelling out my intentions, and hopefully get some feedback:

    I've enlisted a machinist to CNC some aluminum adapter plates using the BMW and GM intake mani gaskets as guides, to handle the lion's share of the mounting issue. I'm purchasing one of those $900 new blowers off Ebay and he's get a spare engine to use to mock it/fit it/test etc, so I think that part of the project should be relatively easy. If we need to machine a new pulley we can do that, and the longer belt is just a Napa visit away.

    I so far plan on using the GM fuel rail and injectors, while mating my OE fuel line to it. Thought being that those injectors are larger than mine for more fuel delivery, and the rail and injectors are ready to mate to the blower, so no spacers or o-ring hassles to deal with. All I've got to do is confirm their impedance and purchase pigtails to solder into my factory harness so they can be plugged in. At this stage in the game we're (there are other guys following my progress) ok with the standard injectors, no larger ones are sought yet, though I bet some of y'all have already I'm hoping that my MAF and O2's can "pull" enough duty cycle from the larger injectors when not in boost, to still allow the car to drive and get MPG's and whatever, tho it should go without saying after this is all up and running, dyno tune time is a must.

    We're either going to mate our TPS to the GM TB or just mate the entire BMW TB to the GM blower, to address that issue.

    The remote intercooler pump and heat exchanger, I plan on purchasing most of those pieces and setting that system up on my car, as the factory cooling system's ~230F operating temp makes tying into it outright dangerous. If the car ran at 160-180F I'd consider it in the short-term just to work out the bugs, but I won't run non-intercooled nor will I run 230F coolant through the "cooler" either, for obvious reasons.

    So where do I (and future followers) go to purchase the OE components we'll need? I've read up on the upgraded intercooler pump, even, but again, for my modest goals, the stock injectors/rail/pigtails and intercooler with pump and hoses will suffice. Have any of y'all upgraded beyond the stock components, and have the old stuff laying around? I'm shopping

    Sorry for the long post, but I am going to follow through with this, and am fully aware of the dangers, and have plenty of past experience with FI, blah blah blah, so I'm looking for educational sincere discussion. Thanks guys,

    Chuck

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  3. #2
    gettinblown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Ok.... I've addressed all of my questions above, but now I've got just a few more:

    Where can I read up on what all the ports on the supercharger do? Which ones gives a pressure outlet, which ones, if any, need vacuum, etc..... What's the big actuator do on the front? It looks like it's tied into the TB somehow? I see a sending unit on the front, what does it read? Just point me in a direction guys, I'm not looking to be spoon fed ;-)

  4. #3
    todrules is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    I don't know much about the LC3 supercharger since I've only had mine for a year or so. I do know the M62 motor like the back of my hand. I had 3 e39's previously, the liquid cooled alternator still makes me say WTF?

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    boomys10 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    the actuator is the manual boost bypass. it will bleed boost off once a certain vaccuum is hit and wont allow the blower to go over 12psi.

  6. #5
    gettinblown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Quote Originally Posted by todrules View Post
    I don't know much about the LC3 supercharger since I've only had mine for a year or so. I do know the M62 motor like the back of my hand. I had 3 e39's previously, the liquid cooled alternator still makes me say WTF?
    Yeah lol you n me both, mine went out just a couple months after I bought it, couldn't believe I had to fight with the cooling system to replace it, but w/e....

    Quote Originally Posted by boomys10 View Post
    the actuator is the manual boost bypass. it will bleed boost off once a certain vaccuum is hit and wont allow the blower to go over 12psi.
    Did you mean "boost/pressure"? Thanks for the reply!

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    boomys10 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    it works off vaccuum. so both answers are correct. i dont know how it would work with your setup, but with ours when the boost gets to a certain level the vaccuum is increased which opens the solenoid and bleeds the xtra off.

  8. #7
    TimmyC is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Quote Originally Posted by gettinblown View Post
    Ok.... I've addressed all of my questions above, but now I've got just a few more:

    Where can I read up on what all the ports on the supercharger do? Which ones gives a pressure outlet, which ones, if any, need vacuum, etc..... What's the big actuator do on the front? It looks like it's tied into the TB somehow? I see a sending unit on the front, what does it read? Just point me in a direction guys, I'm not looking to be spoon fed ;-)
    There is one pressure port after the intercooler lid, one before and a couple vacuum only ports on the back for brakes and the bypass valve actuator. That's the black thing on the front. It is connected to the bypass valve via a cable underneath. It opens the bypass valve so the supercharger is not creating boost during cruising. When vacuum decreases, i.e. you open the throttle, the bypass valve actuator closes the bypass valve and the blower creates boost. You don't have to do anything to make this work. It's all contained on the supercharger.

    The STS-V has a boost pressure hose plumbed into the other port on the bypass valve actuator with a solenoid inline that allows the computer to open the bypass valve even when in boost. It does this to limit boost in certain situations. I've had mine pulleyed to 17.5 psi without this occurring but other people report issues with it. You don't need to worry about that because you won't be using that feature.
    carter's_sts and carter's_sts like this.

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    gettinblown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Thanks Tim, for your time and the reply, I appreciate it. If I could just bother you a little more, I did manage to access an AllData server and printed as much about the blower as I could, including some pictures, but unfortunately, the diagram isn't "to scale", so I can't exactly discern what port does what. I know now that the sensor on front is simply an IAT2 sensor feeding back data to the ECM, which as you noted we (and we're perfectly ok with), won't be using, so no worries there.

    If you wouldn't mind taking a look at this pic:

    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Supercharger-...Yl!~~60_57.JPG

    and tell me exactly what (from L-R) ports 1,3, and 4 do? I'd really appreciate it. Also, there appears to be a port on the TPS itself? Is that crucial to anything? We'll be using our OEM TB and TPS, so if it's not critical to SC operation, that's fine.

    Is the larger tube running off the bottom of the plenum immediately behind the throttle plate, and wrapping around the side of the unit, dead-ending on the side in what looks to be a quick-connect style fitting, the primary boost pressure signal? It's pictured here:

    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Supercharger-...z1Q~~60_57.JPG

    Lastly, the port directly below the IAT2 sensor, on the front of the unit, what's its purpose? If I'm seeing the pictures correctly, my auction blower will include the boost control solenoid, tho I won't need it/can't use it, so I imagine there's some "extras" that are confusing me at the moment.....

    Sorry for the links, I can't figure out how to load images

  10. #9
    carter's_sts is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Sorry to jump in on this, but this is great info. I'm wondering if the computer controlling the bypass valve is why I had a lack of power one time.

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...wer-today.html

    Do you know the reasons why the computer would open the bypass valve?

    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyC View Post

    The STS-V has a boost pressure hose plumbed into the other port on the bypass valve actuator with a solenoid inline that allows the computer to open the bypass valve even when in boost. It does this to limit boost in certain situations. I've had mine pulleyed to 17.5 psi without this occurring but other people report issues with it. You don't need to worry about that because you won't be using that feature.

  11. #10
    gettinblown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Quote Originally Posted by carter's_sts View Post
    Sorry to jump in on this, but this is great info. I'm wondering if the computer controlling the bypass valve is why I had a lack of power one time.

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...wer-today.html

    Do you know the reasons why the computer would open the bypass valve?

    Thanks.
    According to the pages I printed off AllData, there are several reasons

    Begin reading at "Operation" almost at the bottom of the page:

    001.jpg
    001 (2).jpg

    Hope that helps, sorry for the rotate, couldn't get em to upload normally
    carter's_sts and carter's_sts like this.

  12. #11
    TimmyC is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Quote Originally Posted by gettinblown View Post
    Thanks Tim, for your time and the reply, I appreciate it. If I could just bother you a little more, I did manage to access an AllData server and printed as much about the blower as I could, including some pictures, but unfortunately, the diagram isn't "to scale", so I can't exactly discern what port does what. I know now that the sensor on front is simply an IAT2 sensor feeding back data to the ECM, which as you noted we (and we're perfectly ok with), won't be using, so no worries there.

    If you wouldn't mind taking a look at this pic:

    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Supercharger-...Yl!~~60_57.JPG

    and tell me exactly what (from L-R) ports 1,3, and 4 do? I'd really appreciate it. Also, there appears to be a port on the TPS itself? Is that crucial to anything? We'll be using our OEM TB and TPS, so if it's not critical to SC operation, that's fine.

    Is the larger tube running off the bottom of the plenum immediately behind the throttle plate, and wrapping around the side of the unit, dead-ending on the side in what looks to be a quick-connect style fitting, the primary boost pressure signal? It's pictured here:

    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Supercharger-...z1Q~~60_57.JPG

    Lastly, the port directly below the IAT2 sensor, on the front of the unit, what's its purpose? If I'm seeing the pictures correctly, my auction blower will include the boost control solenoid, tho I won't need it/can't use it, so I imagine there's some "extras" that are confusing me at the moment.....

    Sorry for the links, I can't figure out how to load images
    1 and 3 are the vacuum only ports I talked about before. That line goes to the bypass actuator.

    4 is the evap solenoid for emmisions. Remove that and plug the hole.

    The hose that looks like it is going to the throttle body goes to the valve cover; it's a breather line.

    The port on the front under the air temp sensor is the manifold boost/vacuum port for the MAP sensor.

  13. #12
    gettinblown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Thanks again Timmy!

  14. #13
    carter's_sts is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Thanks for the great info.

    I wonder what the heck "When drivetrain abuse is detected" means?

    Quote Originally Posted by gettinblown View Post
    According to the pages I printed off AllData, there are several reasons

  15. #14
    gettinblown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Dragging this back to the front, we've been slowly making progress on this project, not unexpected, there's always some delays to deal with, but we're back in the saddle again, and I've got an idea I'd like some feedback on pls:

    Timmy/others, the thought is to offer an option on this blower package that significantly lowers the boost pressure so that the intercooler can basically be ignored for the end users initial install, then down the road at the time of their choosing, they can add on the heat exchanger/pump/etc, fill the system with coolant, and up the boost.

    I went back of course, to my turbo days and electronic boost controllers, but I think I'm backwards: EBCs raise boost pressure by restricting the boost signal to the wastegate actuator, but the Caddy's OEM boost control solenoid appears to be able to limit or disable boost by opening up the boost signal to the bypass actuator? So I take it it's normally closed, and actually opens to limit the maximum boost pressure (or even disable boost altogether)?

    Now, I know we're not going to be using the OEM boost control solenoid, but the actuator has to stay just for the blower's operation. So, aside from custom pulleys, how do we lower the boost pressure output on that factory setup?

  16. #15
    CMNTMXR57 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Looking for info on the LC3 blower setup

    Can't you command the BOV in the tune to open under certain criteria to help bleed pressure some. I know our PCM's have a heat provision to open the valve and bleed pressure (260* I believe), but not sure if there are other parameters that can also trigger a pressure bleed.

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