Hi, there
look what I found today at Road&Track!!!
The new STS V Supercharged 440 hp - that`s it!
look what I found today at Road&Track!!!
The new STS V Supercharged 440 hp - that`s it!
Afreet1 said:My complaint is the overall lack of displacement. I am sure that the specific output is a nice statistic but I am interested in TOTAL output and the upgrade potential of the engine. Couldn't you have 100Hp/liter if you had a 4 cylinder engine and only 1 total liter of displacement? Would it be impressive then? What about other nifty statistics such as if the compression ratio was only 6:1?
As for the supercharger, the Whipple is a screw-type supercharger and it DOES have a bypass valve. (http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1204)
I was waiting for the 2006 models to arrive before I made my V purchase (haven't decided on a CTS-V or STS-V), but if I can't get a NA engine with at least 400 HP like the 2004 and 2005 CTS-V, then I am going with something else and break a lifetime worth of GM loyalty UNLESS the supercharged version is very close to 500HP. (All my cars / truck have been GM so far)
Would you mind posting the mods you've done to your 3.6 to hit a dynoed 363hp? I'm assuming that's rear wheel.pietroraimondi said:No for sure!....you are not the only one that is disappointed in the CTS-V. At least the STS-V is a true genuine proprietary Cadillac Northstar engine that has been reduced in size to a 4.4 Liter Northstar engine from its current 4.6 and then re-engineered to handle the additional HP of the supercharger to arrive at the base rated 440HP. The dyno slip for sure will tell the tale, but there is some comfort in knowing that in spending $75K f, I received a Cadillac Northstar Engine.
I sat on the fence for all of about 10 seconds when deciding NOT to buy the CTS-V versus the 3.6 VVT CTS and none of it was a cost factor. In fact the cost spread between my "off the lot" 3.6 versus the CTS-V was only about $6000 take or leave a few bucks. I have more $$ in my 3.6 with it's rebuild and the dyno slips to prove that my 3.6 will outperform the CTS-V on the dyno, as I have yet to see a CTS-V crack the 357 mark at even the flywheel, so I'm not quite sure where Cadillac has derived there 400 BHP rating from.
But truth be told, If I'm buying a damn Cadillac CTS-V, I expect a 400 HP Cadillac built engine. I don't expect to pay for a Cadillac and then have them "shoehorn" in a 5.7 liter pushrod Chevrolet engine and call it a damn Cadillac! Where in the hell is the truth in advertising there?
The bottom line is that the next generation of CTS-V's will find that Chevy 5.7 liter pushrod in the boneyard in favor of a better engineered Northstar engine with perhaps a 450+ BHP rating by 2007.
In my mind, the current 2004 CTS-V was nothing more than a CTS LUXURY SPORT, with some trim mods, and suspension modifications that were designed to support nothing more than a Chevrolet crate motor that Cadillac stuffed into the CTS engine bay simply because it fit because the market asked for more HP and quite frankly nothing else would fit the engine bay without extensive retooling and the marketplace clock was ticking.
It sort of reminds you of the first generation of Escalades. They too started of as GMC Yukon Denali's with a bit of Cadillac badge trim and gingerbread aesthetics to justify the MSRP price line. Two years later, the Escalade was a proprietary Cadillac engineered product from front tag to rear tag. The CTS-V will also follow the same suit with a Cadillac engineered Northstar Engine that will utilize the same supercharger system that will be installed in the STS-V as well as the XLR-V. The STS-V will be rated at 440 HP with a 4.4 liter Northstar in comparison to it's current 4.6 liter Northstar.
I would expect to see the new CTS-V to be rated somewhere between the 450+ and/or 475 with a genuine Northstar supercharged engine. When Cadillac does that; they'll have my attention as well as my check!
I realize that the above may sound like a bit if conjecture, however I have had some extensive discussions as part of a "marketing focus group" with Cadillac and the above statements concerning the new supercharged CTS-V will prove to be true. There is ongoing discussion as we speak with the "powers to be" at Cadillac about installing a tiptronic type sequential gear management transmission and move away from the standard 6 speed manual fits all thinking. The thinking is that at $55,000 and adding triptronic, you bring back into the buying fold all those that stayed away because they did't want a manual or in my case a Chevrolet engine stuffed into a Cadillac chassis!
Cadillac realizes that if they are going to build the true "American Ultimate Driving Machine" that fits form, function, luxury and satisfies the true American driving enthusiast; they need to be prepared to meet BMW "heads on" in both the product and the service experience.
They realize that they MUST install a triptronic SGM (SMG) manuamatic transmission in order for this CTS-V vehicle to be successful in catering to the BMW crowd.
They also realize that the current Cadillac Service Department model is still lacking miserably and is delivering a "Chevrolet service" experience. Over the next 3 to 4 years you will no longer see Cadillac dealerships sharing showroom floor space with other GM brands. The Cadillac Showroom and Service Dept will be standalone units.
This may sound silly, but as an example when I would take my BMW M3 in for service, I was greeted by a Service Advisor in a business suit. We would review the car and sit in his private office for a review of my scheduled service and any recommended services.
If I was going to work that day, there was a new BMW loaner waiting for me outside....not a single bit of paperwork to fill out as everything was on file.
If I was waiting for service, the waiting area rivaled that of a lobby/business center of a fine hotel. Free continental breakfast, capuccino & coffee machines, all of the major newspapers, various plasma screens for tv watching and at least a dozen cubicle desk stations with computers, internet access and a telephone. In some ways, I got more accomplished work wise at there then I would once I arrived at my office!
When I take my Cadillac in for service, (which I don't)....I'm greeted; rather looked at quite strangely is a better description, but a guy wearing a pair of blue coveralls who lacks the common sense to even put protective plastic covers over my sheepskin seat covers. It is quite a sight to be seen and from what I understand it is also a "countrywide problem".
I was asked by Cadillac Communication to join there focus marketing group as I had owned BMW's exclusively for the since 1985. Cadillac realizes first hand that they only have 3 years to fix the service department problem that they now face. They have done a wonderful job at engineering the overall vehicle, (exception noted on the 5.7 CTS-V) and in training the dealerships in how to sell the product. Service however was an afterthought and they are hearing first hand that the 30-40 something driving enthusiast expects his mechanic to know at least as much as I dwe about our vehicles, when in reality they are very lacking in product knowledge.
They laughed a bit at focus group web meeting when I made the analogy of that famous philospher, "Gomer Pyle", when I said; "fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me".
The point is that in order for Cadillac to bring us all back for the second CTS or STS.....they need to keep the "service experience promise"; and they have failed miserably in that arena. They are aware of it and are taking action as we speak. In fact, you will actually see some Cadillac Dealerships that will be closed by GM because they lack the physcial space for a first class service department to support the type of service that BMW & Mercedes customers are accustomed to.
When I would take by M3 to Towson BMW for service, I could purchase just about any type of Dinan performance upgrade and have it installed and not hear from some high-school garage mechanic that I was voiding my warranty. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've had to waste breath educating a mechanic that he knew as much about the warranty law as he knew about my car, so perhaps you may understand why I'm reluctant to go anywhere near the place for service and I live in a major metropolitan market!
If I could make a suggestion to anyone that owns a CTS....please buy the damn CTS parts list schematic that is on a CD/DVD and learn about your car. I'll say it again.....learn about your car, because chances are you'll be giving directions to the mechanic.
The current Cadillac mechanics are just that.....they are not "TECHICIANS". Ok...it's a silly damn fancy word for mechanic, but the bottom line is that the current Cadillac mechanics are used to working on your Aunt's Coupe DeVille and a Jeep Grand Cherokee and we both know that Aunt Rosie wouldn't know a harmonic balancer from a banjo and "you/we" do know the difference with regard to our cars as we are "enthusiasts". The current Cadillac mechanic is not prepared for that type of customer interaction and Cadillac Corporate is well aware.
The clock is ticking and they have a timeline of 36 months to get it right as these current vehicles begin coming in off-lease and or trade.
On a personal note, Cadillac revealed that there were alot of considerations that had to be encountered in bringing the CTS to market. Introductory price-point was the major one in comparison to the BMW 325/330 as they didn't want to bring to maket a new chassis/vehicle (CTS)that was competing head on with a vehicle that was "tops in class' for better than 10 years running at the same price point.
There "soft approach" to pricing and building the 3.2 in 2003 and then introducing the global 3.6 VVT in such a manner that it could handle 370+ HP in it's current configuration was a true trophy winner. With the 3.6 VVT engine, Cadillac avoided any future retooling costs as the 3.6 VVT is in all actuality a 4.0 six and the bore is reduced to 3.6 due to the steel cylinder sleeves. There is tons of room to grow this 3.6 platform and it will serve Cadillac well for at least 10 years.
Cadillac has done a fantastic job of "reinventing" themselves and their product line and attracting the BMW customer. The "Cadillac service experience" will define whether the "New Cadillac" customer keeps coming back.
Playdrv4me said:Boy is this gonna be a fun shake-up when the next S8 arrives. Theres a reason the current S8 was featured in quite possibly the best movie chase scene ever... RONIN. Back in 01' when top HP ratings were just barely creeping up to 400 (M5), Audi was next in line with the 380HP S8, with an engine that could be easily pushed further. At that time the E55 had 349hp, the XJR was 370 and Cadillac's top offering was the 300hp STS with FWD.
Im excited to see whats coming down the pike. So far weve got a 440 horse Cadillac, a 500 horse BMW, and a 470 horse MB.... With the RS6 under its belt... Im eager to see what Audi-verken has to offer Its a great time to be a luxury sedan.
BTW... I cant agree with the comments about the CTS-V. It is exactly what every guy with a tool belt and a power screwdriver yearns for... a nice car with a big ol motor shoved in it! GRUNT!
Really. Sylvio Dante trades his 03 STS for the STS-V, and Paulie Walnuts trades his 02 ETC for the XLR-V LOL LOL LOL!cguthrie said:I'll be looking for a STS-V on the Soprano's next season!
CG
99STS 105K
Here, here. As Tim Allen would say, "Ahr ahr ahr!" Or however you'd spell that.Playdrv4me said:BTW... I cant agree with the comments about the CTS-V. It is exactly what every guy with a tool belt and a power screwdriver yearns for... a nice car with a big ol motor shoved in it! GRUNT!